I have successfully completed a ANSI-RAB NAP Accredited ISO 9000 Lead Auditor traing class. It has been suggested that I'll also attend a transtional training class to prepare me for my upcoming venture. Do you feel it is needed?

Tracey was the course to the 94 standard, if so yes I would suggest you also take the transition course for 9K2K.

The course was the 2000 version

Ask yourself this question...."If I took the ISO 9000:2000 Lead Auditor training course, do I need to take the ISO 9000:2000 Lead Auditor Transition course?"

If you really need to ask that question don't quit your day job.

I hate to be rude, but you apparently aren't grasping the intent of either course, and your ability to audit the complexities of a QMS might not meet the grade.

Tracey: Welcome Again the Cove.

Don’t be disappointed with some of the belittling reply’s that appear here from time to time. It’s not representative of the Cove. Almost all participants here choose to constructively help their colleagues, even if the answer may be uncomplicated to them. Focus on the positive participants, keep the questions coming and you’ll find this a good support mechanism. Smile. It’s Friday !

P.S.- You’re good to go on the Lead Auditor stuff ! Congrat’s!

I was confident that I didn't need the transitional course until the auditor from the Registrar suggested it. He said it would show me exactly what would have to be changed within our system.

tracey said:

I was confident that I didn't need the transitional course until the auditor from the Registrar suggested it. He said it would show me exactly what would have to be changed within our system.

Tracey, if you feel that the transition course would benift you take it, if you are not fimiliar with the 9K2K standard take it, however, if you are only taking it because your registrar suggested it and you feel you have a grasp on the differences between 9K2K and 9K:94 then don't take it. Remember, you will also have to explain to the rest of the company what the changes are and why they need to be made. This is the question you really need to ask yourself, how well do I know the 9K2K standard and where is differs from the 94 version. If you don't understand 9K2K don't feel bad there are many many people who don't understand it either. Good Luck!


Just out of curosity, is the transition class they suggested you take being offered by you registrar?

Like I said...I don't mean to be rude:(

There was no intent to belittle, just a a slight realignment of thought.:truce:

Hello Tracey and welcome aboard! As you can see from the responses there are many ways to get a job done. What you need to figure out is what is specifically needed by your organization.

I would recommend you do a search on both Internal Audits and Auditor Training. Both issues have been discussed at lentgh and you will need to scan through to find information relevant to your situation. It is a little time consuming, but you never know when you will strike paydirt!

Experience is an invaluable tool. What you learn in a program/class is not the 'ALL' that is needed to fill a job. Personally, I train our internal auditors using a modified (customized) Technicomp Internal Auditor Trianing Program. Classroom training is augmented with practicle exercises performed in class. I am attaching the IACC - Grade Reporting form, so you can see how the grading is achieved here.

I'll attach the Exam to a separate post.

Best of luck getting started!
Eileen

PS: Randy, Thank you for extending the appology. I hope we will all keep in mind that we will not all agree on issues, so please do not take the comments as being directed 'personally' but rather 'topically'. I hope I stated that so it makes sense.

This is the Exam I use:

Checklist used when trainees prepare for Audit:

No problem Eileen......apparently one of the repondents, not familiar with my methods, took a little exception to my entry into this thread.

The message I tried to get across was...if you took a course of study, passed the required exams, and aren't sure what you took it for and why, be cautious of your involvement.

The individual stated that a ISO 9000:2000 LA course was taken and the examination was passed. The question was It has been suggested that I'll also attend a transtional training class to prepare me for my upcoming venture. Do you feel it is needed?

It was pretty apparent to me that is a disconnect somewhere and my intent was to say "Wake up...think about what you just passed an exam for."

My carnivorious Alpha male side is showing......:bonk:

Randy said:

Don't expect to see much of me this week..13-17May. I'll be in class learning to do the 9K2K Auditing thing.


Randy said:

The QMS-LA course I took was a good refresher for me, and I filled a gap in my background. I get to do the 9K2K transition in a couple of weeks, so I'll be getting a little smarter in the QMS field (not as much as you Whizzes though)

Randy said:

The individual stated that a ISO 9000:2000 LA course was taken and the examination was passed. The question was It has been suggested that I'll also attend a transtional training class to prepare me for my upcoming venture. Do you feel it is needed?

It was pretty apparent to me that is a disconnect somewhere and my intent was to say "Wake up...think about what you just passed an exam for."




I'm feeling a little confused, perhaps I'm still disconnected. I am new at this and I am about to convert our quality system from 94 to 2001. I ask for opions on whether a tansitional cousre would be benifical after taking the Lead Auditor course. I thought you (Randy) felt I was on the wrong train of thought. Please explain

Tracey :confused:

tracey said:

I'm feeling a little confused, perhaps I'm still disconnected. I am new at this and I am about to convert our quality system from 94 to 2001. I ask for opions on whether a tansitional cousre would be benifical after taking the Lead Auditor course. I thought you (Randy) felt I was on the wrong train of thought. Please explain

Tracey :confused:

Tracey,

Randy is a bog ole Teddy Bear. He is an Environmental Consultant and is relatively new to ISO 9001:2000, I think. He is branching out to broaden his horizons and his checkbook. While I don't speak for him, I think his intent was to get you to think about whether of not you would gain any more knowledge by taking another course. Personally, I think the Auditor Course should have covered interpretation of the new standard and provided you with all the information you would need regarding the standard. If you are already certified to the old standard, the transitional course may have been a benefit to you had you not gone through the Auditor Course. Did the Auditing Course focus on the new standard? If so, another course may be redundant. If the Auditing Course was focused mainly on the old version, additonal training may be in order. All of us know our shortcomings. We should all know what we need to do the job expected of us. There are all kind of training courses and seminars that cross my desk every day. I look at them and, based on experience, trash most of them. You must decide what you need for training. As you begin auditing, it will become abundantly clear where you need training as people question your findings or accept them as is. That's all that crusty ole Jarhead was trying to tell you. I think!:rolleyes: :ko: :smokin:

tracey, here are a couple of thoughts. First, if your lead auditor training was based on the 1994 version, then you will need the transition course. If your lead auditor class was 9K2K, then you might not need the transition course. The 'approved' transition course I attended was intended for auditor update, not on how to upgrade your QMS. Some places teach classes specifically on upgraded QMS' from 94 to 2k. That type of class might be beneficial. As far as the 'approved' transition course goes, it might be just a repeat of the lead auditor training.

Hope that helps.

(edited for spelling - db)

I just re-read this thread. tracey, you did specify that the course was based on 2K. Now, Randy's question is why you would think you need the transition training?

In my last post I mentioned two types of transition training. The first is the 'approved' transition course for auditors. This give the auditors the necessary information so they can transition from auditing the 1994 version and the 2000 version. As Randy indicated you will probably gain nothing new from this class.

The second type that is offered (usually by training and consulting companies) is a QMS transition course. This type of course shows how to migrate your existing QMS to the updated standard. This class can be extremely beneficial.

Neither course is necessary, but in your case, I think the second would be of the greater value.

Thanks energy, since I first post, approximatly a week ago I have been researching and reading the cove. I think it is fantantic and I have learned so much yet I have so far to go. I would be interested in hearing from the 'crusty ole Jarhead' on his opinion of taking both courses. Yes the Lead Auditor course focus on the 2001 version but mostly focus on the Auditing aspect. I am in the process right now of updating/rewriting our procedures. There is not another transitional course offered until October so I'm going to wait and see how it goes.

Thanks again, Tracey :bigwave:

db, I'm not sure which course this would be. It states that it is a RAB Approved transitional Training course. I will email the registrar ( who offering the course) and find out exactly what it is. I agree that it may be benificial if it does focus on updating to the 2001 version.

Thanks,

Tracey

tracy the words 'RAB Approved transitional Training' indicate that it is for auditors, not upgrading the QMS. It might be a good refresher, or possibly to fill in some gaps that that you might have missed during the regular class, but I think it will be mostly stuff you've heard before.

Where would I go to find a course for upgrading our quality system? The registrar office would not offer this?

I went to the interpretation and transitional info classes with our registrar (who we feel very comfortable with...they truely challenge us to keep on target with the standard requirements). This helped me #1 to understand the key differences between the standards and #2 to show me how my registrar is training it's people on what to look for, which essentially told me what needed to be done.

Please keep in mind that although I have been through the 'Internal Auditor course' I have not been through Lead Auditor course (this is scheduled for next month - I'm not holding my breath). Yet I am the person that leads the audit process (and internal auditor training) in house - they have promised me the course for years...but so far haven't come through).

Form me the interpreation and transition courses were enough to get the job done at our plant (which is supported by Corp office for many of the requirements - so we consider these sub-contracted). The Lead Auditor course would be great on my resume and provide additional opportunities, but will provide little in benefit since I'm not on the corporate level where I would be more involved.

My advice to you is this: If you feel you are on solid ground then skip the additional classes and go for broke to get the job done. However; if you are still unsure, take the class(es). At the very least they will reinforce your knowledge and boost your confidence (which you will need in order to drive the project - if you flounder the transition project will too).

tracey, there are several ways of finding them. One would be to do a web search for 'QMS transtion'. Another may be to check out any number of QMS trade journals, such as Quality Progress, Quality Digest, Quality Today, etc. You can also check with your local ASQ chapter (you are a member aren't you?).

I'm not certain what part of Canada you are from, but here in the Detroit area, there is the Quality Expo in Novi on the 12th and the 13th. There should be some information there.

db, where is the Quality Expo? I would love more info. My company is located in windsor. If fact my lead auditor course was held in Detroit.

The Quality Expo is in Novi. If you take out a map of the Detroit area, it is in the northwest corner. Right where I-275, I-96 and I-696 meet. It is actually exit 162 of I-96. Feel free to call me if you need more information. My phone number is listed at the Cove.

You can get more information at: *** DEAD LINK ***

OK, I'm here and my ears are tingling.....;)

Your 9K2K LA course should have provided you with enough information to understand the basic requirements of a QMS based upon that standard. It's always been my opinion that Implementation courses better serve folks who are putting systems together and not Lead Auditor ones. Unless a person is going to spend a great deal of time auditing anything beyond an internal course is overkill IMHO.

Tracy, you should have all the tools you need to build your system. Pay attention to what these folks here have to say, most are pretty sharp. Then there are those like db and Eileen. :rolleyes:

Then there are those like db

And here I was defending you and everthing Randy! :eek:


(didn't say I was doing a good job at defending you though)