I'm building on ISO2000 5.4
Quality Planning

AND have found a number of differing opinions on what is & what isn't contained in a (per se) "Quality Plan".

Typicals are
Process Map
Control Plan
Dimensional Layout
Capability Reports for Criticals
Materials certifications
ETC. ETC.

After searching here I didn't really find a clear definition of an acceptable set of inputs.... (maybe its just the keywords I'm using ???


Anyway if anyone has a list?? or clear set of details as-to what they consider an acceptable quality plan please let me know .....

Thanks in advance :bigwave:

Jim

Jim,

I've been questioning the same thing. Last week I purchased a copy of ISO 10005:1995 Quality Management - Guidelines for Quality Plans. It's almost a mirror image of ISO 9001:1994. Except for a couple of charts in the back, I didn't find it helpful at all.

I can share a little of what I've learned in my quest so far.

"A Quality Plan is a document specifying the quality management system elements and the resources to be applied in a specific case".

Activities to be considered are:
* Product specifications, quantity and delivery requirements,
* How the product/service is created and resources required,
* How the product/service is going to be verified,
* The criteria against which the verification is to be assessed,
* What records will be kept to demonstrate conformity.

I'm very interested in seeing additional comments on this topic.

Hank
:)

This is similar to what I'm going to use. This one reflects the 1994 version, but I intend to upgrade it to ISO9001:2000. This was uploaded to Marc's member files, but here it is again. It doesn't refer to inputs and outputs (Process map) as it is a standard flow chart. Maybe there is something you can use from it. I'm not going to get too anal with the Quality Plan because we will have procedures where we need them and training to cover the rest. It can make you crazy.
:bonk: :ko: :smokin:

We do a Project Quality Plan (PQP) for every job and they cover those items that Hank listed.

We don't have any other QPs that I know of.

Lucinda said:

We do a Project Quality Plan (PQP) for every job and they cover those items that Hank listed.

We don't have any other QPs that I know of.

Every job? That's Product Realization. Your Qual Plan should be created 10,000 ft above your business and cover all processes, in general. Particularly if you have multiple divisions or Business Units. The Auditor has a road map of your business and can proceed with his audit, rather than be shown 200/300 Qual Plans for every job that comes down the pike. Contract review, old version, was not a Qual Plan then, either. I worked at a place that called their Process Traveler their Qual Plan. Customers didn't seem to have a problem with it. Whatever floats your boat. .:p :ko: :smokin:

energy,

I think your QP is excellent. You have so many QAPs. What about companies that aren't so document intensive. We have only the procedures required by ISO 9001:2000, several documented processes and and a few work instructions.

We are looking at developing Quality Plans when we get a Request for Quote. We build custom systems of computer hardware and software. My thoughts are to provide evidence that we have thoroughly reviewed the customers requirements and have a plan for how the product will be developed and produced with stages and methods identified for verification, etc.

If a company was starting from scratch, would you have any advise in this regard?

Best Regards,
Hank Fowler

HFowler said:

energy,

I think your QP is excellent. You have so many QAPs. What about companies that aren't so document intensive. We have only the procedures required by ISO 9001:2000, several documented processes and and a few work instructions.

We are looking at developing Quality Plans when we get a Request for Quote. We build custom systems of computer hardware and software. My thoughts are to provide evidence that we have thoroughly reviewed the customers requirements and have a plan for how the product will be developed and produced with stages and methods identified for verification, etc.

If a company was starting from scratch, would you have any advise in this regard?

Best Regards,
Hank Fowler

Hank,

Those QAP's are what I intended to have. With the new standard's mandated 6 QAP's, those references would dwindle to as few as I can get away with. Good job training, skills requirements, OJT are another avenue to use to avoid becoming procedure choked.
You need to map out your quote process from inception to completion, in general. The common steps you do for all your projects. As Lucinda has stated, she calls each job steps a Qual Plan. I guess if I were asked a question about Quality Planning, I could explain the we do a new Qual Plan for each job. Or, if I were doing a plan for each job, I could answer, "Sure we have Qual Plans. Which would you like to see? Yesterday's, today's or tomorrow's?:vfunny:
And, we are starting from scratch, just like you. I just sling more s***! :vfunny:

Energy, I think you may misunderstand what I'm calling a project quality plan . It is a document that outlines what job we are doing for the customer (such as a pipeline inspection or suction pile setting or survey equipment laying, or cable burial, etc.- but in much greater detail than these titles of course), what equipment will be needed, what personnel will be used, what reporting will be provided, what job procedures are to be followed (we have to write job specific procedures for some jobs for installation, etc.), who the various levels of contacts are for the project on customer's side as well as ours (for establishing authorities and responsibilities), and other details for the project. It is a written document, not a flowchart. And yes, this is used for the product realization phase - although created by the planning team - and it is done for every job. An exception to this "every" rule is what is called a "fly by" where we do a short job for someone on the way to another client's job. Typcially it is done as a last-minute thing just because we happen to be in the area.

I've looked at your Quality Plan and I can see that your document is for a different purpose. It looks like it is showing which procedures apply to each stage of your business flow. It is very nice. I tried at one time to do that sort of thing but my boss said to scrap it because we don't have a single thread of tasks. Everything just ends up in a wadded mess with arrows going here there and everywhere.

Lucinda said:

I've looked at your Quality Plan and I can see that your document is for a different purpose. It looks like it is showing which procedures apply to each stage of your business flow. It is very nice. I tried at one time to do that sort of thing but my boss said to scrap it because we don't have a single thread of tasks. Everything just ends up in a wadded mess with arrows going here there and everywhere.

Lucinda, (I miss your neck:vfunny: )

It's a carry over from the old standard, sort of. The way it was explained to me, by our consultant, was that a quality plan was an overall roadmap of your company that Auditors (External) like to see that walks them through your system. Like I said before, what you do, is what they did at a previous place of employment. Their Process Traveler, created for each job, contained all the information that pertained to that job. Inspection points, specifications, drawings, notes, special processing, etc..While we saw disappointment in the Customer Auditor's (Not ISO) faces when they asked to see our Quality Plan, there was no credible argument so they just went about their business. We really had to go over a couple of the travellers to demonstrate why we called it the Quality Plan to convince them. :agree: :ko: :smokin:

energy said:

Like I said before, what you do, is what they did at a previous place of employment. Their Process Traveler, created for each job, contained all the information that pertained to that job. Inspection points, specifications, drawings, notes, special processing, etc..While we saw disappointment in the Customer Auditor's (Not ISO) faces when they asked to see our Quality Plan, there was no credible argument so they just went about their business. We really had to go over a couple of the travellers to demonstrate why we called it the Quality Plan to convince them. :agree: :ko: :smokin:

Hi Energy,

The customers were disappointed? Heck, I would have thought they would have loved to see a detailed quality plan aimed directly at their individual product. I guess I'm a dummy!:bonk:

Mike S. said:

Hi Energy,

The customers were disappointed? Heck, I would have thought they would have loved to see a detailed quality plan aimed directly at their individual product. I guess I'm a dummy!:bonk:

Mike S,

That's what I was getting at. They expected to see something like the road map but got to see all their requirements spelled out on a different form. That's why they did not object. On the other hand, we cannot do that here. That would be too much extra work. Call it a Resource problem!:vfunny: :ko: :smokin:

All of the above..........

Seriously you need to define what your Qp is...'basics' says its your Quality System your baseline flow(generic capabilities) then the part/family specific traveler that ties them together, and how you plan to collect the evidence.

Just went through this with my boss (the same guy that handed me a procedure entitled "Quality Management System").

Right now I have the process flow diagramed in the quality manual. This links to the corresponding procedures. When followed it arrives at the "System Logbook" which is produced for each tool. This logbook is what I personally consider the quality plan. It starts with the order spec., includes assembly steps, an assembly completion inspection, test requirements and records, customer specified test requirements and records, customer acceptance, retest requirements and records, pre-shipping inspection results, packaging and shipping requirements and records. A copy is shipped with the tool and a copy maintained.
This entire mess, from the manual on, is our quality plan.

KenS said:

Just went through this with my boss (the same guy that handed me a procedure entitled "Quality Management System").

Oh that is precious!:) I had a similar experience when meeting with the QM at our "parent" company. He kept referring to us sharing the quality management system even if we ran separate systems. And talking about it being at the top level, etc. I was confused and then it dawned on me that he must mean the manual. So I said, you mean the Quality Manual? Quality Policies Manual? And he said "No. The quality management system."

When I got back to my office I pulled out the QMS procedures binder that I got from him a few months ago, and low and behold he had titled the Quality Manual the --Quality Management System!

Sorry guys - off topic:bonk:

:cool:
Well... Well...
Anyway how do you complay to the ISO 9000:2000 point 5.4.?

One of my clients requested my help to issue a Quality Plan some time ago as well and, honestly said, in the beginning I was at a complete loss. First of all I also thought of the ISO 9001:2000 requirements of a quality plan which result in a process landscape, process descriptions and so on.
However, that was not the customer's requirement and after some time we found out that the customer (OEM - military business) required a Quality Plan in accordance with ISO 10005:2005.

What we did:
We issued a document called Quality Plan and exactly listed all the paragraphs i.a.w the contents of ISO 10005:2005.

In each paragraph we made a general statement and some comments - more or less detailed depending on the subject - and we referred to the related processes or sections in the existing handbook(s).

In addition, we added the contract-specific customer requirements to the list of contents and showed compliance with them by also giving statements and comments and references to the relevant processes.

Furthermore, we issued a detailed procedure on how to issue and control the quality plan itself.

The quality plan as described above was highly accepted by the customer.

Sorry, I cannot publish any of the documents since they are proprietiary.

In my words, a Quality Plan is the result of Quality Planning.

See ISO 10005:2005 Quality management - Guidelines for quality plans for reference info.

energy,
<snip>
If a company was starting from scratch, would you have any advise in this regard?

Best Regards,
Hank Fowler

Depends on how cookie-cutter the business is. On one extreme, if all you make is a widget and every widget is the same, then one quality plan will do ya. On the other extreme, if everything you ship is highly customized with perhaps a different production process, different technology and so on, then each one should have its own quality plan.

A quality plan needs to contain:
Description of what the plan covers, be it product, project, process or any combination of above.
What activities will be undertaken to ensure the quality of the plan subject
Who will perform these activities (including release to customer or next process in stream)
What resources they will use to perform these activities
When they will perform these activities
Pass/fail criteria
Reporting/records requirements, if ISO constrained

I posted a QA Plan template here. (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=221660&postcount=1)

It's a carry over from the old standard, sort of. The way it was explained to me, by our consultant, was that a quality plan was an overall roadmap of your company that Auditors (External) like to see that walks them through your system.

Yet another case where doing things that auditors like to see can lead one astray.

Also an example of less-than-good advice from a consultant.

One's concept of a quality plan needs to be flexible enough it can fit the specific circumstances of the organization.