Read this mind blowing link.... If the members of the American medical establishment were to have a collective find-yourself-standing-naked-in-Times-Square-type nightmare, this might be it. They spend 30 years ridiculing Robert Atkins, author of the phenomenally-best-selling ''Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution'' and ''Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution,'' accusing the Manhattan doctor of quackery and fraud, only to discover that the unrepentant Atkins was right all along. Or maybe it's this: they find that their very own dietary recommendations -- eat less fat and more carbohydrates -- are the cause of the rampaging epidemic of obesity in America. Or, just possibly this: they find out both of the above are true.

When Atkins first published his ''Diet Revolution'' in 1972, Americans were just coming to terms with the proposition that fat -- particularly the saturated fat of meat and dairy products -- was the primary nutritional evil in the American diet. Atkins managed to sell millions of copies of a book promising that we would lose weight eating steak, eggs and butter to our heart's desire, because it was the carbohydrates, the pasta, rice, bagels and sugar, that caused obesity and even heart disease. Fat, he said, was harmless.

Atkins allowed his readers to eat ''truly luxurious foods without limit,'' as he put it, ''lobster with butter sauce, steak with bearnaise sauce . . . bacon cheeseburgers,'' but allowed no starches or refined carbohydrates, which means no sugars or anything made from flour. Atkins banned even fruit juices, and permitted only a modicum of vegetables, although the latter were negotiable as the diet progressed.

Atkins was by no means the first to get rich pushing a high-fat diet that restricted carbohydrates, but he popularized it to an extent that the American Medical Association considered it a potential threat to our health. The A.M.A. attacked Atkins's diet as a ''bizarre regimen'' that advocated ''an unlimited intake of saturated fats and cholesterol-rich foods,'' and Atkins even had to defend his diet in Congressional hearings.

Thirty years later, America has become weirdly polarized on the subject of weight. On the one hand, we've been told with almost religious certainty by everyone from the surgeon general on down, and we have come to believe with almost religious certainty, that obesity is caused by the excessive consumption of fat, and that if we eat less fat we will lose weight and live longer. On the other, we have the ever-resilient message of Atkins and decades' worth of best-selling diet books, including ''The Zone,'' ''Sugar Busters'' and ''Protein Power'' to name a few. All push some variation of what scientists would call the alternative hypothesis: it's not the fat that makes us fat, but the carbohydrates, and if we eat less carbohydrates we will lose weight and live longer.

The perversity of this alternative hypothesis is that it identifies the cause of obesity as precisely those refined carbohydrates at the base of the famous Food Guide Pyramid -- the pasta, rice and bread -- that we are told should be the staple of our healthy low-fat diet, and then on the sugar or corn syrup in the soft drinks, fruit juices and sports drinks that we have taken to consuming in quantity if for no other reason than that they are fat free and so appear intrinsically healthy. While the low-fat-is-good-health dogma represents reality as we have come to know it, and the government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in research trying to prove its worth, the low-carbohydrate message has been relegated to the realm of unscientific fantasy.

Read more.... (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=1726)

Have y'all heard of a balanced diet with ADEQUATE exercise?

Aussie health guide:
Don't use milk on your cereal, use beer.
Chase young women well into your eighties.
If your dog is getting more action than you, kick the dog.
Anything involving drinking is exercise.
Drinking beer after strenuous exercise will actually enhance your performance.
If you're fitter than all your mates, let their wives know it.
Smoking may kill you, but so will the stress if you don't.
Red meat is good for you, but make sure you cook the thing - stay away from ANYTHING that is bleeding.
And if your kids are under 16 and can out run you your life is over.

I came across this link:

***DEAD LINK REMOVED*** which argues against the high fat-low carb diets.

It appears that the only safe way to lose weight is to eat a sensible balanced diet, exercise regularly and count calories. It all comes down do the simple equation; do you or don't you burn more calories than you take in. HEAVY sigh... ;)

Memo to medical research. We need a miracle safe weight loss drug NOW!

But seriously, have you been to the primary schools or the beach lately? The number of very over weight children and teens is appalling. North America has a health crisis in the making.

Neil said:

I came across this link:

[url]----x---But seriously, have you been to the primary schools or the beach lately? The number of very over weight children and teens is appalling. North America has a health crisis in the making.

Not just North America, Neil... I'd say the entire western world. We can see exactly the same thing happening over here.

/Claes

I heard that approximately 50% were above the average body weight - what about that !

M Greenaway said:

I heard that approximately 50% were above the average body weight - what about that !

Well, if I were a typical politician I'd say, with much pomposity and bluster, "This is a result of the other party's lack of leadership on this issue! MY PLAN will address this problem immediately! It is apalling that 50% of Americans are above the average weight!"
:vfunny:

Now that we showed the tobacco companies a thing or two, states will now be able to file class action suits against the Fast Food industries to fill their coffers. Like smoking, nobody forced that Big Mac loaded with "fat feeders" down their children's throat, topped off by the giant make believe milkshake. They bought it, ate it and now want compensation because they weren't told it would make them weigh 350 lbs instead of 325lbs.
Tsk Tsk
Hey Mike, and they ask me why I drink!:biglaugh: :ko: :smokin:

Yeah, Energy, but it gets worse. Speaking of drinking...

Not only are the money-grubbing lawyers like Peter Angelos and his ilk gonna go after fast food places and other manufacturers of "unhealthy" foods, they are gonna go after alcoholic beverage manufacturers, too. Deep pockets!

They have already tried suing firearm manufacturers to hold them liable for the actions of punks and creeps who use them to rob, assault, and murder people. Thankfully, so far all or almost all of these goofy suits against gun manufacturers (often brought by big cities!) have been tossed out of court, but it costs big bucks to just defend yourself against these rediculous, frivolous suits, so damage is still done to the innocent companies nonetheless. If they're ever successful I'd say next they should go after Ford, GM, Chrysler, et. al. (more deep pockets!) whenever a drunk or negligent driver, driving one of their vehicles, kills someone. The idea of personal responsibility is being replaced by blame-placing everywhere but where it belongs. It makes me sick.

End of rant.

Maybe we ought to all sue the doctors that slapped our A - - when we were born for delivering us into this mess :biglaugh:

This whole lawsuit thing has gone overboard. I'm so sick of it. Have ya'll seen the commercial that has a dollar amount ring up on the screen for commonly purchased consumer goods? The dollar ( or cents) amount is the portion of the cost of the item that can be attributed to the company defending frivolous lawsuits. Brilliant.

When I was a senior in high school, everyone in my english class had to write a paper for the Voice of Democracy contest sponsored by the Veterans of Foreign Wars. The theme was "My responsibility to America". My paper was written as a condemnation of our lawsuit-happy society, and my responsibility to America was to act responsibly and take responsibility for my own actions. It won at the school level, at district, and at regional. I used it as the talent portion for the Jr. Miss America competition and won a 2 year college scholarship. (well actually they tell me it was the wetsuit that I wore while I gave the speech that did it....
:vfunny: )

That was...a few.... years ago, and nothing has changed here except to have gotten worse. People will sue you for anything and are only out to get the easy money. There is a serious lack of personal pride. That's what it boils down to. If you have pride in yourself, there is no way you could file such a lawsuit. Geez, I would be mortified to say that I was so ignorant that I didn't know a McDonald's burger would make me fat! Or a hot coffee between my legs would burn my ...legs.

Lucinda said:

Geez, I would be mortified to say that I was so ignorant that I didn't know a McDonald's burger would make me fat! Or a hot coffee between my legs would burn my ...legs.

You forget that the brain size is inversely proportional to body weight. And smart people never put hot coffee between their legs because we need them to steer with. When your fat, you can't find space between your legs to hold a bobby pin, let alone a cup of coffee. You would need a rib spreader!:lick: :smokin:

Most of us over eat. The key to a stable weight is not what you eat but how much and the amount of exercise you do. Most of us eat several servings without really knowing it!! Especially if you eat out a-lot. If you are happy and comfortable with the weight you are, whither you weigh 110lbs or 330lbs, who gives a @$%*. Our world has become a world of appearance.

Lucinda said:

When I was a senior in high school, everyone in my english class had to write a paper for the Voice of Democracy contest sponsored by the Veterans of Foreign Wars. The theme was "My responsibility to America". My paper was written as a condemnation of our lawsuit-happy society, and my responsibility to America was to act responsibly and take responsibility for my own actions. It won at the school level, at district, and at regional. I used it as the talent portion for the Jr. Miss America competition and won a 2 year college scholarship. (well actually they tell me it was the wetsuit that I wore while I gave the speech that did it....
:vfunny: )

Lucinda,

Perhaps your paper, or one like it, should be required reading for high school students everywhere. Personal responsibility -- what a concept!!! But, of course, that will never happen! However, it might make for a good letter to the editor of your local newspaper(s) the next time a frivolous lawsuit gets reported there -- it shouldn't take too long. It might only reach a small audience compared to the US population, but every little bit helps. The good guys (and gals!) need to speak up. As a wise man once said, all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

How goes the job search?

M Greenaway said:

I heard that approximately 50% were above the average body weight - what about that !

I say BS, because according to all the charts I am grossly overweight at 5”8” 170 lbs, according to the charts I should be between 135-150 and I say what a crock. I get s from my doctor about my weight all the time (maybe that’s why I avoid going to the doctors). I am at the gym 5 days a week and I run 3 miles a day, but according to the charts, I am obese what a joke. Just goes to show you that you can make statistics say whatever you want.

ISO

Just a joke - look at the statistic, 50% is always above the average (or mean) !!

P.S. Those chart things always put me as obese also at 6' 5" and 17 Stone, but like you I also exercise very regularly and very intensely (its all muscle honest ;) )

M Greenaway said:

ISO

Just a joke - look at the statistic, 50% is always above the average (or mean) !!

P.S. Those chart things always put me as obese also at 6' 5" and 17 Stone, but like you I also exercise very regularly and very intensely (its all muscle honest ;) )

Martin,

17 Stone???? You gotta be kidding me! Were it not for a supercharged conversion program I wouldn't have a clue what a stone was (14 pounds or 6.35 kg).

Why didn't you give your height in "hands".
:vfunny:

Canadians have snickered at the litigious nature of American society for some time now. As such, I can't actually condone that class action lawsuit against the fast food restaurants. In the case of the tobacco companies, clearly they knew cigarettes were harmful and yet conspired to hide the truth. That is pure evil. This is not true of the fast fooders. However, in this super hectic world we live in fast food is a necessary evil. But this does not change the fact that until recently those fast fooders have not offered much in the way of healthy food choices whatsoever. I do not know why this is for sure but I suspect that the profit margin on fries is pretty high. Criminal no, reprehensible YES!:mad:

In my memory banks, I seem to recall a burger chain that once tried a healthy meal (Burger Chef comes to mind). It failed because sales would not support it. The main reasons healthy fast food restaurants have not jumped up is that folks vote with their pocketbook. Not enough folks will avoid the golden arches of MickeyDees for a good garden salad or tofu burger at a healthy fast food. This might actually be changing because more and more fast food places are putting healthier stuff on the menu (but I think it will be a loooooong time before the burger and fries are not the number one seller)

Neil,

I don’t blame the fast-food restaurants for what they have on their menus. Operating in a free-enterprise system, they play the tunes that get the most requests. Just like any sane company, they give the customers what they ask for and, if/when enough customers demand “healthier” foods, you can be sure they will offer it (and they are moving that way now as customers move that way). After all, they want to make money and if they feel they are losing business because they don’t offer tofu burgers, I can guarantee you’ll see Mc Tofu burgers pronto. A few years back Mc Donalds offered Mc Lean burgers in our area – part lean beef and part seaweed. After a time they were removed from the menu. Not because they wanted to see everyone get fat but because of pure economics – they didn’t sell enough to make it worthwhile. To me that is not reprehensible behavior but rather good business sense. Does your company try to tell the customer what they should buy, even if they could make a case that it was "for their own good"? They cannot make money trying to force people to eat what they do not want to eat, plain and simple. Does What else would you suggest they do?

Mike,

How is damaging the health of a nation good business? How are you developing a mutually beneficial long-term supplier/customer relationship when you contribute to a premature death of said customer. Perhaps a McTofu burger is a lame half-assed attempt at being a responsible corporate citizen (going through the motions to cover your *** so to speak). It isn't all about maximizing short term profit. In my opinion, if those fast food companies had turned some of their massive advertising budgets and marketing genius to promote appetizing healthy food (yes it does exist) they could have kept the profit margins high and helped the nation at the same time. A Deming win-win. I most definitely do blame them. The law suit will get thrown out of court but it will do its job in that the corporate lawyer scum will force a re-think of the menu. As you say it is already happening, this will expediate the process.

Neil,

Don't look so angry! Your opinion carries the same weight here as everyone elses whether I happen to agree or not.

I'm curious. Where, in your mind, does this "corporate responsibility" for the health of the country's citizens end? How much is enough? Where does personal responsibility begin and end in this "healthy food" debate? Should all hamburger joints just stop selling "unhealthy" foods? "Unhealthy" by whose definition? What about my right to eat a juicy, dripping with fat burger or pizza if I want to?

With all the press "eating healthy" gets these days -- you can hardly go a day without seeing it on the news, magazine covers, or radio -- do you really think even more advertising by Wendy's or McDonalds will make the difference in what people buy at a fast-food place? Do you really think that if they could make more very healthy and great-tasting food offerings that they wouldn't do it because of some type of conspiracy (like the rumored 100 mpg carbeurator that "big oil" has supposedly hidden from the world for decades"? Heck -- I think they'd jump on it big time because, all else - especially taste- being equal, the great majority will eat the healthier food. But it has to taste good! I've got venison in my freezer that is free, but I don't eat nearly as much of that as the pricy beef simply because I dearly love the taste of the less-healthy, more costly beef. The venison, while free and healthier, just is not as good to my taste buds.

And, what about the fancy, pricey restaruants with their chocolate mousse and prime rib and other rich foods? Are they equally guilty?

You don't have to answer here. Just my thoughts...

Mike,

I'm not angry that is just my normal terse writing style:). Well, I do think Energy's comments, while in jest, are at best insensitive. Naughty Energy, bad boy. I am not denying you a great tasting hamburger or pizza, I am simply lamenting the lack of choice. IMO, the fast food joints did miss a business opportunity on the health side. Why? Lack of leadership, fear of change, profit margins, paradigms, who can say? But I doubt not for a second that it was a conscious choice.

When I heard about that lawsuit my initial reaction was the same as yours, here we go again, money grubbing lawyers and stupid people demanding protection from themselves. But the more I thought about the more I came around to the opinion that it is not entirely without merit. McD's and the rest know only too well the effect their food has on the nation. Their reaction for the most part was, "would you like to biggie size that order?" Sure fancy restaurants sell rich fatty foods too but usually you can find salads, grilled fish and vegetables on their menus as well.

Sure fancy restaurants sell rich fatty foods too but usually you can find salads, grilled fish and vegetables on their menus as well.

The last time I went to BK they put so much lettuce on my burger I thought I'd ordered a salad. Speaking of BK they do have salads, veggies and they offer a fish sandwich. Everything a Fancy Restaurant offers!!!!!!!:vfunny:

We have already experienced this with the cigarette companies. You can't think they thought of "long term customers". Yes, they may have had them for life but not a "long term". Business is the old "supply and demand" dance. I can't see McD's being as big as they are now if they offered nothing but tofu burgers and rice cakes. Watch what happens when they change the oil they cook french fries in to low fat stuff.

What one generation tolerates the next will cling to. IMO that is what has happened to this Fast Food stuff. It use to be something that was done once in awhile and now it is a staple. I'm as guilty as anyone.

I've gotten old enough that I have to watch my weight, I can't eat the stuff I use to and get away with it. But like most stuff "moderation in all things".
:D

Randy,

Things are getting better, no doubt about it. I beg to differ on BK in Canada. I played in a bridge tournament a couple of weekends ago and ended up at BK for dinner. Not a salad or wrap to be found. So I ordered what turned out to be a God awful supposedly BBQed hamburger. I thought foods that were bad for you were guaranteed to taste good. I suspect that most of us sedentary desk pilots have to watch our weights carefully.

Neil said:

Mike,
Well, I do think Energy's comments, while in jest, are at best insensitive. Naughty Energy, bad boy.


I have posted twice before and I find them both insensitive. My tolerance for people blaming somebody else for the stupid choices they make is zero. Would you call Cleo for a Taro card reading? Do you buy the 16 piece titanium cut through bolts knife set for $19.95? You are a victim of your own appetite for more, but cheaper, anything.

I recently vacationed in Ocean City, MD. We went to Phillips Crab House. There are a few of them and they are a landmark crab house for tourists. There are better, just not as well known. We decided to do the buffet, all you can eat for approx. $20 a head.
Our seating, fortunately, was a few tables away from a family of three whose combined weight would exceed 75 stone (for Martin).
The youngster, by far the grandest of them all was stuffing his face with both hands, as were his parents. The kid was bright red and perspiring. Mom said "C'mon. Eat. Eat. We paid for it". After a few moments the boy involuntarily commenced to re-cycle his stomach contents onto his table splashing on the floor and surrounding patrons. Everyone within 3 booths/tables scattered for the hills. Maybe, just maybe, Phillips should face litigation for providing so much good food for such a low price encouraging these human garbage disposals to eat more and making potential disposal units out of normally careful eaters.
My comments can be viewed as insensitive because I have a low tolerance for stupidity, greed and not accepting the consequences of your own choices. And, I always say it as I see it. Don't get me in trouble. I'm really trying to remain civil.:rolleyes:

Well, I'm off to a Bungee Jumping contest off the GW Bridge followed by a 10,000 ft freefall parachute drop into an Alligator farm. If anything happens to me, somebody is going to pay!

:bonk: :ko: :smokin:

energy said:
My comments can be viewed as insensitive because I have a low tolerance for stupidity, greed and not accepting the consequences of your own choices.


Energy you hit the nail on the head, "Not accepting the consequences of you own choices", nobody is forcing the lard a$$e$ to eat food that is bad for them. We as a society have become fat and lazy and want to blame our problems on everyone else rather than holding ourselves responsible. I better stop here before I say something that will pi$$ people off.

Have a good weekend!!
:truce:

ISO GUY said:

Energy you hit the nail on the head, "Not accepting the consequences of you own choices", nobody is forcing the lard a$$e$ to eat food that is bad for them. We as a society have become fat and lazy and want to blame our problems on everyone else rather than holding ourselves responsible. I better stop here before I say something that will pi$$ people off.

Have a good weekend!!
:truce:

Have we truly become lazy or are we just preoccupied with other items? Back in the good old days, Mommy stayed at home, in the house and she had the time to make a lovely, healthy meal. Nowadays, in many cases, Mommy works, too. Time has become something beyond precious...it has become scarce.

I do not have children (unless my two cats count :) ) and my required work day is from 0830 - 1700. I leave the house around 0750 and get home aroud 1800....on a good day. I sort the mail, pay some bills, pay attention to the cats, check email, return phone calls, and then get ready for my daily walkabout/runabout/drag-my-butt-about session. :vfunny:

By the time I get around to making supper, it's usually around 1930 which will have me eating around 2000. Since bedtime is between 2200 and 2300, I don't want a big meal, but since I've only had small meals during the day (cereal at breakfast and a sandwich or salad at lunch, with the required daily snacks, of course), I do need to get some food into my system.

Who wants to cook a big meal by this time?

I can only imagine what families with children go through. Surely it's more chaotic and more stressful.

"Fast food" allowed us to spend time with our families without dishes to clean up and allowed us time afterwards to spend on ourselves. It creates something that all throughout the day appeared to be lacking...spare time.

I don't condone fast food or its fatty nature (although I admit to being a regular visitor to A&W and Wendys...and viva Tim Hortons! ;) ), but it does add a degree of convience to my life. I can grab some fries and an iced tea and mow down while on my way to meet friends after my workout. It allows for a quick lunch break so that I can get right back to that report I'm working on for senior management. Priorities and convenience.

But yes, I agree with Energy and ISOGuy...no one is responsible for my choices except for me. If I choose to eat there, it's my decision. I control my caloric intake.

For me to sue the fast food industry (or any particular segment within it) is just ludicrous.

I seem to be all alone of this one. Energy, you paint such wonderful pictures. No buffets for me for awhile. Yuck! I was referring to our comments about the relationship between size and IQ. Wasn't your former President Taft reknown for both his quick wit and his girth? Assuming that all overweight people are lazy, stupid gluttons is a real prejudice and not a little offensive. You all seem to be missing the point. You all want to condemn overweight people for making poor choices. My whole point is that for the longest time THERE WASN'T A CONVENIENT CHOICE. Sure people have to take responsibilty for their condition and choices but the fast food places have contributed to the problem in not a small way.

For the 100,000 years modern humans have been walking this earth, 98,000 of them we were hunter-gathers. Ability to use calories efficiently and store fat was an evolutionary advantge. Now it is killing us. Blame the people not the system. As quality types aren't we supposed to know better?

Neil,

You're correct that my remarks about brains and size sort of stigmatize large humans. That was poor humor. I guess that I should have emphasized "choices". At 6' and 200 lbs, I am considered over weight and I know when I've overdone it when I have to let the belt out a notch. That's my choice. I can fluctuate upwards 5 lbs in a week and it takes a month to lose 5 lbs, while starving. If the day comes that I have to wear sweat pants to work because they don't make belts my size, then I would call myself stupid. Outside of a few medical conditions that cause obesity, big obesity, huge obesity, it's just laziness and little self respect for yourself. No offense to any large people out there. :agree:
:ko: :smokin:

Hey the only way to be fit is to live fit! No easy way out here! If you want to lose weight and/or improve your health or appearance the only successful formula remains: EAT RIGHT. EXERCISE MORE.

The height/weight charts are very general guidelines. I'm 6'1 and according to the chart I should weight 190 pounds. (Sorry: I can't work in stones or kilograms!) That's a bit light for my frame really. A better indication is body-mass index which measures the ratio of body fat to muscle mass, without regard to overall height or weight.

Overweight people, with very few exceptions (people who actually DO have glandular or other disorders), have only themselves to blame. I'm far from being a fitness freak. It's a struggle to fit my exercise in with my work life, social life, nap life... actually just about any life but exercising. But it is important and not just for appearance sake. Obesity (greater than 30% body fat) is a major cause of many health problems. Health problems effect all of society through insurance costs, health care costs and availability etc. And who ever thinks of the poor paramedics and EMTs who may have to carry your butt down to the ambulance after a medical emergency?! Everyone owes it to themselves, their families, and society to stay fit for life!!

OOOO!!!! It's beer-n-pizza Friday at the office!!! Gotta go!!

There is no doubt in my mind, and the vast majority of scientists agree, that PART of your weight is genetic in that some folks just have naturally higher metabolisms than others, and some folks have bodies that store fat more efficiently (and in different places) than others. Most of us know people who eat less than we do (taking into account different body sizes/weights to start with) but gain more weight, and science has demonstrated this in carefully controlled studies. Fair? We all know that life ain’t fair, especially in areas of health. We also know that metabolism slows as we age – in my teens and early 20’s I couldn’t gain weight despite eating atrocious amounts of food (and drink) while today I have to carefully watch what I eat and drink and I still gain a few pounds per year. Yes, overall in the big picture folks may be getting lazier and eating less healthy food, but as they say “individual results may vary”. So not all obesity is due to lazy people who have no willpower – there are many people who eat less than I do and get more exercise and still gain weight faster but they don’t necessarily have a treatable disease/glandular disorder per se. Like all other aspects of health, be thankful if you have average or higher metabolism.

However, having said all of that, IMO it still is of no fault of Mickey D’s, Wendy’s, BK, or any other food producer that people are getting fatter UNLESS that producer is lying on their nutritional labels, or are forcing people under threat to eat their food.

Part of people's weight "problems" is due to metabolism, which can vary, and which does slow with age. However, muscle mass even at rest consumes more calories than does fat mass. Therefore, the fitter you are, the easier it is to remain fit with proper diet and exercise. The opposite is also true. To stay healthy everyone is responsible for themselves to eat a diet that provides the necessary nutrients and vitamins, while providing no more caloric energy than their bodies need. And exercise is a must. If you want to lose weight, the magic formula is and has always been: EAT RIGHT, EXERCISE MORE.

I should have posted this here. Don't miss your chance to see A QM reading the latest post. No offense to anyone. Metabolism or not! :rolleyes:

Is this obesity? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=38047#post38047)

With all this concern for weight, is it fair for Marc to require "cookies" on this site?

db said:

With all this concern for weight, is it fair for Marc to require "cookies" on this site?

Since a groan smilie does not appear to exist, I guess my official response to this is.... :rolleyes:

Been away supplier auditing for two days. Did you miss me? I'm at wit's end but I refuse to throw in the towel. Can I not get one person out there in cove space to agree that the fast food companies (although not criminally liable) have contributed to weight problem in modern North American society? Let's face it we are all busy, we travel, we work longer hours (all this downsizing), we have more responsibility, we try to spend as much time as possible with loved ones and like it or not convenience food helps make this possible. The big fast fooders have done the research and they know **** well the effect their food is having on the health of our nations. The question is why have they been so slow and half-hearted in their attempts to offer healthier choices? I suspect it is all about resistance to change and a complete unwillingness to jeopardize current profit levels. These companies more than any other have the ability to influence eating habits. I think they have all missed the boat. Iacocca in his early days at Ford said safety doesn't sell cars. Wrong. People only want bacon cheeseburgers and fries for fast food. Wrong. They have put profits ahead of innovation and ethics. Call me an idealist but I refuse to let the fast fooders off as easily as the rest of you apparently are. I also don't buy the argument that you can't make money offering healthy choices. Pffft...

Neil said:
Can I not get one person out there in cove space to agree that the fast food companies (although not criminally liable) have contributed to weight problem in modern North American society?

Sure. Along with pasta manufacturers, potato farmers, dairy farmers, affordable beef suppliers, etc.. You name it, we eat it. It's still a matter of individual choice of how much and what. Also, Sony Playstations, Gameboys, Segas that keep the youngsters inside eating munchies as they exercise their fingers and wrists. Television, where we work out with the remote control. School buses that stop at each and every house so that Junior doesn't have to walk a little bit. Fast food is the least of our problems.

:frust: :ko: :smokin:

Neil,

Just a thought. Stop and think. Who are these evil, unethical "corporations" who resist change, only care about profits, don't care how unhealthy or fat we are, etc. Who are they REALLY? They are us, the citizens of the world, the STOCKHOLDERS and employees. Most stockholders and employees are "real people" like you and I who own some shares either directly or through mutual funds and/or work there. Corporations are made-up of nothing more or less than (mostly) everyday people who either invest their money there or work there. The stockholders and employees have families, friends, and certainly themselves to worry about as they and their families and friends eat there, too. Why do these everyday people act so evilly toward themselves, their families, their friends, and their communities?

Let we forget, corporations are mostly just very large groups of everyday PEOPLE banded together for a common cause. JMO.

Neil said:

Can I not get one person out there in cove space to agree that the fast food companies (although not criminally liable) have contributed to weight problem in modern North American society? Let's face it we are all busy, we travel, we work longer hours (all this downsizing), we have more responsibility, we try to spend as much time as possible with loved ones and like it or not convenience food helps make this possible. The big fast fooders have done the research and they know **** well the effect their food is having on the health of our nations. The question is why have they been so slow and half-hearted in their attempts to offer healthier choices? I suspect it is all about resistance to change and a complete unwillingness to jeopardize current profit levels. These companies more than any other have the ability to influence eating habits. People only want bacon cheeseburgers and fries for fast food. Wrong. They have put profits ahead of innovation and ethics. Call me an idealist but I refuse to let the fast fooders off as easily as the rest of you apparently are. I also don't buy the argument that you can't make money offering healthy choices. Pffft...

JMHO, if you want to hold fast food companies responsible lets also hold video game makers responsible for our fat society, kids don'y go out to play they sit with the play station and or computer with a bag of cheetos and excersise their fingers. You are right we all want to spend as much time with our loved ones as possible, does that mean you have to eat the crap they are selling, that is a concious choice you are making nobody is putting a gun to your head telling you to buy it and on top of that SUPERSIZE it what a deal you can get even fatter for an additional 39 cents!!! You influence what your children eat not some corporation. Why should they change their menus (pardon the expression) they have a CASH COW on their hands, wait maybe they are chemically altering the food getting you addicted to it! Lets quit looking for excuses to blame everyone else and put the responsibility back where it belongs on yourself.

Energy, Mike and ISO you are all making good points. Sure corporations reflect the values of the shareholders. Given Enron, Worldcom, Exxon Valdez or Union Carbide in Bhopal what does this ultimately say about ourselves. Not a pretty picture, that is for sure. I do not blame Sony, Ninetendo, pasta manufactures, potatoes etc.. Here parents have CHOICE and choose a lifestyle for themseves and their children. Sure we could plan ahead and bag healthy lunches whenever we travel, we have choice and we must all be responsible for the consequences of those choices. But lets get real, the need for convenience food is there and is difficult to avoid and is not going away anytime soon. Why has it taken so long to reach the point that there is now at least a poor semblance of choice at fast food. A token salad or wrap. But really, not one of the big fast fooders has really had the nerve to develop and aggressively market (for our own collective good) a menu with traditional junk and some appetizing healthy choices. They have been dragging their feet on this issue, being reluctant followers not leaders? I recently picked up a men's Health magazine at the hair stylist last week and 70% of the articles were on diets, healthy foods and the evils of the McDs. Why is so tough to find decent healthy fast food? Am I really asking for too much? Why is expecting social responsibilty from corporations laughable?

BTW just for the record. We restrict TV, video and non-educational computer games with our lovely 4 and 6 year old children. Instead we play soccer or swim every night for at least a hour, my wife walks them to school weather permitting. We fight the good fight against McD advertising geared at children (how ethical is that?) as much as possible (with mixed results albeit). I just wish that I didn't have to fight this hard, that's all.

Neil,

Have you ever heard of a fast food place called "Subway"? :D

I've seen a number of times where a Subway and McDonalds are in the same parking lot. It's your choice.

As far as offering healthier food, many places have tried it, but do you think McDonalds sells more salads or more bigmacs?

In our area McD offered and pushed hard their Mc Lean seaweed+lean beef sandwich but had to drop it after a few years due to lack of sales. Recently salad shakers went the same route. You can get a low calorie grilled chicken sandwich but so few people order them that you have to wait for it to be made because if they make them in advance they go bad before someone buys them (an employee told us this). Long John Silvers is a "fish and chips" place in our area, lots of tasty batter dipped fried seafood, french fries, hushpuppies. You can also get a nice healthy grilled fish on rice platter with veggies but again, so few are sold you have to wait for them to make it up special, they cannot make them in advance or they go bad before someone buys it.

So what else would you do, Neil?

If you really know something that the big fast-food joints do not, i.e. how to make tasty, nutritious, affordable fast-food that will have people flocking in the doors and abandoning McD's and their ilk, I strongly suggest that you write a biz plan, get the investors, and start Neil's Healthy Fast Food. Maybe you'll be the next Ray Krok if you can pull it off and you'll have billions of dollars and the satisfaction of helping make America and the world healthier. I'm serious!

Neil,

I do agree that fast food places do contribute to the weight problem. The issue is one of culpability. They provide things that people want. If we did not want greasy fries, they would not be served. It is the individuals sole responsibility to watch what they eat (unless they are being force-fed). However, if we want to look at contributors, also look at the entertainment industry. If there were no televisions, movies or internet, perhaps there would be no couch potatoes. This is undoubtedly a greater problem than the fast food industry. Back before the industrial revolution, the fat content of foods was much higher (everyone cooked in and flavored meals with animal fat), yet heart disease was rare. Folks worked hard and needed the cholesterol and fat. Now, we are suffering from our relative inactivity. We exercise for leisure, instead of necessity.

As far as Iacocca, he was correct. Research indicates that buyers feel that all cars are “safe”, based on government regulations. Safety is used as a buying discriminator only when compared to other vehicles of the same type. The number one discriminator, when buying a car is styling (possibly excluding the Aztek!). When safety and style are in conflict, then style wins. Number two is cost, be it through gas mileage, or selling price. Even the government gets into the game. Remember the “Checker”? It was one of the safest cars ever built, but died because of the EPA. Big gas guzzling ‘boats’ are far safer than smaller cars, but they died because of lack of sales and government regulations.

Well, I'm off to lunch now. I have so many choices around here, but some unexplained force is pulling me towards that big greasy double bacon cheeseburger. :vfunny:

Richard Olson said:

Well, I'm off to lunch now. I have so many choices around here, but some unexplained force is pulling me towards that big greasy double bacon cheeseburger. :vfunny:

Isn't life ironic? A few days ago, while I was reading the new posts in this thread, I got a phone call for lunch. I agreed, allowing the inviter to pick the place. I thought we'd go to Subway or the Pita Pit or even Tim Horton's for a bowl of soup. Nope...MickeyD's it was.

Not wishing to rock the boat (us Quality folk are soooo complacent), I went along. They've got that build a Big Mac promotion going on (whatever happened to Monopoly???) and I got an instant win! I won a veggie (aka birdseed) burger. Woo hoo....the excitement...how I can I stand it? :bonk:

It would be interesting to see the ratio of their instant wins. How many are big mac or cheeseburgers vs veggie burgers, salads or their low fat parfait?

During lunch, I mentioned this thread. Found out that Fast Eddies, a drive-thru joint in the area, occasionally has specials on Thursday nights. 10 cheeseburgers for $5. Apparently, these nights are really popular with younger people and they're right across from a major high school. When I asked my friend if he ate some for supper on Thursday night and saved the rest for Friday, I was promptly informed, "No....I can get the first 8 down no problem. The last 2 require some work, but they usually go down in a bit." 10 cheeseburgers in one night?!?! Just the concept is enough to make me ill. :frust:

RCBeyette said:
"No....I can get the first 8 down no problem. The last 2 require some work, but they usually go down in a bit." 10 cheeseburgers in one night?!?! Just the concept is enough to make me ill. :frust:

Throw some bacon on those bad boys and I am in! Really it shouldn't matter what you eat as long as you do it in moderation and get the proper exercises.
:truce:

RCBeyette said:

Found out that Fast Eddies, a drive-thru joint in the area, occasionally has specials on Thursday nights. 10 cheeseburgers for $5. Apparently, these nights are really popular with younger people and they're right across from a major high school. When I asked my friend if he ate some for supper on Thursday night and saved the rest for Friday, I was promptly informed, "No....I can get the first 8 down no problem. The last 2 require some work, but they usually go down in a bit." 10 cheeseburgers in one night?!?! Just the concept is enough to make me ill. :frust:
I hope Fast Eddie has good insurance or a good attorney, or is able to get outta the country fast, because in today's litigous society it won't be long before some dopey kid or parent sues poor Ed for making the kid fat! Next we can say goodbye to the county fair eating contests. The remaining "fast food" and "bad snack foods" will get hit with big "sin taxes" and prices will go up even more so the manufacturers can pay all of the settlements and defense costs. Who knows where it will end. All because of a liberal culture that for years has increasingly promoted a lack of personal responsibility everywhere. Is it any wonder the lawyer jokes are as nasty as they are? Those scum-sucking leeches who take bogus cases like that and create TV advertisements promoting the "it's not your fault" culture IMO are among the lowest of the low. Who would have thought we'd see criminals suing their victims (and winning!!!) when they get injured during a robbery on the victim's property and such similar crazy stuff that we read about? Face facts -- those big lawsuits, like the costs associated with corporate theft and shoplifting, are paid for by each and every one of us. If it doesn't end soon with a return to some balanced sanity we're in big trouble. End of rant.

Mike all I can say to that rant is RIGHT ON BROTHER!:thedeal:

LA, the city or Lower Alabama????:D

Jim Wade said:

Did I hear correctly on a news snippet today that authorities in LA have banned the selling of Coke and similar drinks in schools because of their contribution to obesity in the young?

And that Coca Cola Corp is up in arms because they see this as unfair?

Well, I guess they can benchmark against the tobacco giants and learn how to maintain profits by increasing addiction and sales in the Third World. :mad:

Or they could start peddling healthy stuff.

rgds Jim

Yes that is correct. That has also beem done in a town nearby me, they stopped the selling of Coke/Pepsi in the schools. I can see why Coke/Pepsi would be ticked off because at least where I live the schools agreed to sell strictly Coke or Pepsi and were give large sums of money by Coke or Pepsi to build/improve their sports complex.

How is Coke/Pepsi addicting? :confused:

Why is everyone so eager to blame others for their choices and the resulting actions!

These people should sue thier parents for brining them into the world. **** if they didn't they would not be forced to eat at MCDonalds (or wherever) and sit on their fat lazy a$$e$. :mad:

Jim Wade said:

Did I hear correctly on a news snippet today that authorities in LA have banned the selling of Coke and similar drinks in schools because of their contribution to obesity in the young?

And that Coca Cola Corp is up in arms because they see this as unfair?

Well, I guess they can benchmark against the tobacco giants and learn how to maintain profits by increasing addiction and sales in the Third World. :mad:

Or they could start peddling healthy stuff.

rgds Jim
Jim,

Do tell, Jim, do you agree with Carl that McD's and other "fast food" joints are responsible (legally/criminaly or ethically) for fat people? And Coke/Pepsi too?

As for your remark that "they could start peddling healthy stuff": Ever heard of Diet Coke/Diet Pepsi, available in caffiene free versions as well? Zero calories. Or is that not healthy enough for you? Don't the kids have the option to drink water or milk (low fat or skim of course)? Should Coke/Pepsi be forced to only sell "healthy drinks"?

Maybe no more wine, beer, or other alcohol, too?

Where does it end?

The comment about the county fair made me think of this and I just had to share it here. I was at the fair this past weekend and saw plenty of great food. But then I saw the ultimate snack. There was a booth that was selling deep-fried "Twinkies". This is not a joke, I actually saw this. When you see this kind of stuff, McD's doesn't look too bad. :vfunny:

I dont know why I am even bothering to respond but, yes Jim I am aware the Coca Cola had cocaine in it at one time as you stated 1929, but last I checked we are in the year 2002 and there is no more cocaine in it. Yes I have tasted Coke and Pepsi and they both tatse pretty **** good to me! Do I drink it all the time no, I am a water drinker (well at least during the week). Let me repeat lets STOP LOOKING TO BLAME OTHERS FOR THE CHOICES WE MAKE!

How is Coke/Pepsi addicting?

I've had three different doctors tell me to quite drinking Pepsi (in fact, any carbonated or anything with caffeine). I have found nothing that I like the taste of to replace it. So, I’m on my third can today.

Hey Jim I heard that too many bananas could cause digestive problems! I read the only thing that you cannot overdose on is garlic. (But you wouldn't have many friends)

Richard Olson said:

The comment about the county fair made me think of this and I just had to share it here. I was at the fair this past weekend and saw plenty of great food. But then I saw the ultimate snack. There was a booth that was selling deep-fried "Twinkies". This is not a joke, I actually saw this. When you see this kind of stuff, McD's doesn't look too bad. :vfunny:

I was in the food pavillion at the Canadian National Exhibition a few weeks ago, just waiting in the very lengthy line at the Coke booth. I wanted one of those yard sippers....a yard of a Coke product....mmmm....sugar.....

Anyway, there was a mother standing behind me who gave her son some money to go and buy himself a meal. The food pavillion has food for everyone....different ethnic foods, local foods, healthy foods, non-healthy foods. I believe there were 250 - 300 booths from which to make a selection.

After about 10 minutes, the boy came back and handed the money back to his mother saying, "This s***s! There's no McDonalds here!" It was all I could do not to laugh! :bonk:

Jim Wade said:





Plus lots of red wine which is proven to be really beneficial even in large quantities
rgds Jim

Finally something we can agree on!!!!
:vfunny:

I have to agree with DB to, garlic is great that is why I use it as often as I can.

:lick:

Now if we could either add garlic to red wine, or better yet make garlic wine, then we would have something.

Garlic wine....why worry about red or white? Garlic would go with anything! :D

Jim Wade said:

I have no opinion on that, Mike.

But I guess the LA school authorities believe that the products are harmful? They sure taste harmful (at least they did in 1972 when I last tried to swallow the stuff).


Jim Wade has no opinion on something???? Really??? No opinion??? I'm truly shocked. Are you sure you have no opinion, or are you just copping-out on us?;)

They taste harmful??? I've tried some red wines that tasted pretty harmful, too, but I realize some folks like them, so to each his own. No offense intended, but, once again Jim, your opinion is in the small minority considering the millions (billions?) who like Coke/Pepsi/similar soft drinks.:ko:

Actually, not much that happens in L.A., or CA as a state for that matter, shocks me. There are nuts out there that think cow's milk is harmful and should be banned, too, so how seriously can you take those folks?

I think I've found Jim's part-time job. Apparently, he is working on his next on-line business venture. You can find out more at:

The ABCs of Wine Online (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,62817,00.html)

:thedeal:

What a job!

But, if Jim gives a rave review to a wine most think is bad, we must blame the system, not Jim!:bonk:

Let's turn that around. If you give bad reviews to a wine that Jim likes, he might fail you. But then again, if the student doesn't learn, the teacher hasn't taught. :vfunny:

Wine? part-time!!! Gimme a break! Jim, as usual, I did not make myself clear. The part-time was in reference to the school.....and only you could come up with garlic wine!:biglaugh: :thedeal:

If it doesn't look good in a brown paper bag and it won't take the paint off a car, then it's not worth drinking!!!!!! Take for example Fred Sanfords "Cham-pipple" it was ginger ale and ripple mixed and then for the hard core fan there is always Wild Irish Rose! Think of the time and care it went into making a wine that burns more that a shot of Jack Daniels on the way down, is sweeter than Uzo and will make you sicker than a 5th of Southern Comfort!!!! Now that is talent and research!!!!

"See, Sniff, Sip, and Summarize."


See the nice purple color with the little bubbles.

Sniff a shot to clear out the sinus cavity.

Sip the half gallon jug...er crystal glass...until empty.

Summarize exactly where you think you wound up after
gaining consciousness two days later.

A night out with Mad Dog and Bud...Ah, to be young again.
:cool:

Randy Stewart said:

and then for the hard core fan there is always Wild Irish Rose! Think of the time and care it went into making a wine that burns more that a shot of Jack Daniels on the way down, is sweeter than Uzo and will make you sicker than a 5th of Southern Comfort!!!! Now that is talent and research!!!!
Lordy, Stew, you take me back to my stupid(er) teenage days. I only ever bought one bottle of Richard's Wild Irish Battery Acid, that was enough!!! 40 proof wine! Same with Mad Dog 20/20. Ugh! So I went "uptown" and bought Boone's Farm - cases and cases of it! Mmmmm mmmm good! Today I'm so "refined" that 90% of my wine has a cork (occasionally some Riuniti or similar finds its way in)! But rarely over $10-15 a bottle unless someone else is buyin'. Poor Jim is probably so disgusted he'll need another bottle of 1985 Silver Oak Cabernet Sauvignon Napa to get to sleep tonite!
:vfunny:

I know what you mean. I can't believe I use to subject my stomach to such torture!!!! My choice now days is the Dry Whites like Blue Nun. We'll talk about the Gin & Tonic at a later date:ko:

Yep, Mad Dog takes me back to the '70s. And who says we Yanks don't have a sofisticated tastes.:rolleyes:

I agree about the stomach (whole body!) torture! What a dummy I was. But sometimes we'd get on a health kick and make " gallon-jug screwdrivers" with real OJ or, if desperate, "fruit punch" or Kool-Aid. Gotta get that vitamin C! No scurvy for us!

Watch my weight back then? Hah! Now? Oh yeah. And lots of other things.

Ripple in a brown paper bag with a temperature of 90 Degrees. It don't get no better than that. Well, unless you had a twister with it! Hey, it was the sixties.:p :ko: :smokin:

energy said:

Ripple in a brown paper bag with a temperature of 90 Degrees. It don't get no better than that. Well, unless you had a twister with it! Hey, it was the sixties.:p :ko: :smokin:

Having missed the sixities completely, all I can say is *sigh* .

I guess I'll have to live on my alcoholic memories of....hmmm...wait a sec....I can't remember. ;) No wonder my friends slapped a name tag with my address on it to my chest. "In case found wandering around the streets incoherently, please return to 13 Cherrytree Lane." :ko:

Having missed the sixities completely


Sixties?...I remember the fifties and a small part of the seventies.

I think maybe I was a farmer during that decade...darn weeds! :D

Never had Ripple, but I had a friend pass out with her eyes open after we drank a bottle of Mad Dog. :eek: Boy was I scared!

I've had Mad Dog only two times since reaching adulthood as a giggly lark with the hubby. There it is in the 7-11 cooler and you go "hey look! Mad Dog! Think we should? *giggle giggle* " and he says "sure why not? it's halloween so grab that neon green one" .

Our big thing in the 70's was trashcan punch. You know the drill. Someone buys a new trashcan and pours in a jug of koolaid then everyone who shows up at the party dumps in a bottle of something. Yum Yum. A friend then started a health kick and said that the best alchohol for us was pure grain alcohol. So there was a fuzzy 6 month period where all we drank was grain shots.

'Tis truly a miracle I have any brain cells left.

If we had a McD's back then, I can only imagine how many Big Macs' I could have devoured after a night of Ripple and Sweet Jane!:vfunny: We had to settle a for case of Oreos or Devil Dogs! I'm starting to drool.:lick: :ko: :smokin:

Lucinda said:

A friend then started a health kick and said that the best alchohol for us was pure grain alcohol. So there was a fuzzy 6 month period where all we drank was grain shots.

'Tis truly a miracle I have any brain cells left.
Grain shots???? How in the world did you stand drinking 190 proof (95% alcohol) pure grain straight?

Brain cells? He11, it's a miracle you have any taste buds or stomach lining left!!!

My only experience with pure grain is cherry bombs (Marachino cherries soaked in pure grain) and a concoction a former girlfriend introduced me to known as the "Green Garsh Darn" (name cleaned-up a bit). Lime sherbet, 7-Up, and pure grain punch. Deadly.

DO WE have many brain cells left?? Maybe I'm learning why we are in Quality today. :bonk:

BTW, Lucinda, how goes the job hunt? Hangin' in there?

Mike,

You need to make friends with some good ol' boys and experience some of the good stuff :D

A frined of mine from Kentucky used to have grain alcohol all the time. I don't remember too many nights at his place :p

Mike,

At least bottled grain alcohol has got to be cleaner for you than the moonshine that grandaddy had around his house made with sugar cane squeezings and goodness only knows what else. All we cousins would conspire to find a mayonaisse jar of that so that we could hide out in the cookhouse with it.:smokin: Now that was some nasty stuff and like pure fire!

The only use I have for grain alcohol now is for making schnapps. All you have to do is add flavoring (bottle stuff or can use a fruit liquer) and bingo! There's winter schnapps and wedding schnapps and caramel schnapps.....:vfunny:

Job search....well I had a very exciting nibble this week so we shall see. They contacted me, not the other way around so that is always a good sign. With all this discussion of alcohol, it is becoming evident to me that my biggest area of experience is booze and perhaps I should be leveraging that into a new career path! Oh man, could you imagine being a quality assurance whisky taster or beer taster or wine taster or....or....:ko:

Getting back to the original discussion. Last night I made lasagna, with a twist, for dinner. I begin with regular lasagna noodles. I add pizza sauce, mozzarella, provolone and sharp cheddar cheese (rather than rigatoni) and add pepperoni. It is kinda like pizza lasagna. Tonight, It will be polish sausage fried with potatoes and onions. Neither of these are healthy foods. So, based on the discussion of who is culpable, who should be sued? The store that sold the ingredients?

db said:

Getting back to the original discussion. Last night I made lasagna, with a twist, for dinner. I begin with regular lasagna noodles. I add pizza sauce, mozzarella, provolone and sharp cheddar cheese (rather than rigatoni) and add pepperoni. It is kinda like pizza lasagna. Tonight, It will be polish sausage fried with potatoes and onions. Neither of these are healthy foods. So, based on the discussion of who is culpable, who should be sued? The store that sold the ingredients?

What a coincidince I made lasagna over the weekend too. I certainly did not use any reduced fat or fat free ingredients, plenty of homemade sauce, with piles of meat and cheese.

DB as far as who t sue, yes sue the store for forcing you to buy that unhealthy food, those **** stores who do they think they are giving you a choice and not pushing the TOFU on you. I think you should sue your parents too for not raising you on nuts, berries, tree bark and yard clippings how dare they!!
:vfunny: :p

Dave,

Maybe you shouldn't be sued, but at the very least, you could cited for manufacturing hazardous waste without the proper Regulatory Permit.:p :ko: :smokin:

I think you should sue your parents too for not raising you on nuts, berries, tree bark and yard clippings how dare they

Actually ISO GUY, my dad did make my brother and I eat the lawn clippings! :biglaugh: That is until we found lawn clippings could be turned into an inebriating drink! Then, he started bagging the clippings and taking them into the garage. We were never allowed in the garage from that point on! :( :thedeal:

Here's a bit of an update to an old thread from the Washington Post:

Health and Human Services secretary Tommy Thompson told representatives of the fast food industry that they should offer and aggressively advertise more fruits and vegetables, re-examine their super-size portions, and generally offer more healthful food. Said Thompson, after the meeting, "I want more choices and healthier choices on their menus, and advertising campaigns to eat healthy. We're too fat, we don't exercise, and I invited them to be part of the solution."

IMHO just another example of where government is nosing in where they do not belong. Who are they to tell companies what food they should sell (aside from contaminated food, etc)?:mad: :bonk:

There is no "shall". True nosing in will be regulations affecting advertisement and portioning. In this state, there is a lot of "Government" guidance in regards to smoking, drinking and how to talk to your kids about drugs and underage drinking. You get bombarded with ads on the radio and TV. I find them informative, if not persuasive. What is missing is a state sponsored "visible" drive to reduce teenage pregnancies. Why's that? Now, there's a real cause of weight gain. Oh, maybe it has something to do with "choices" or individual rights. :bonk:
:ko: :smokin:

I can accept the mandatory air bags, seat belts, etc. But when it comes down to telling a business how much should be in their "Super Size" portions that just isn't right. What about the All-You-Can-Eat buffets in Vegas???? Can you see the government going after these resturants and telling them they have to regulate how much a customer eats???? Too much on that plate sir . . If you're going to eat a second steak you must have more salad or greens first, sorry government regs. These issues just get me. I don't care for the people on their cell phones while driving but I'll be d@mned if I want the government to tell me I can't do it. Mandate a class in self respect and respect for the individual and leave my rights alone. If I burn myself on hot coffee then the person serving it shouldn't be liable for my own ignorance. If I burn to death because I was smoking in bed should my kids sue the blanket manufacturer for not making a fire proof blanket to protect me from my own stupidity??????
Too much coffee today - no I didn't get burned!!!:vfunny:

Randy Stewart said:

What about the All-You-Can-Eat buffets in Vegas???? Can you see the government going after these resturants and telling them they have to regulate how much a customer eats????

However, many of these buffets offer healthy choices at the same time. I don't believe the government would regulate how we eat or if we have enough greens on our plates. What they are probably more concerned with is giving us the option. If I'm not in the mood for a 24oz hunk of red meat to satisfy my carnivore tendencies, then I can go and nibble on a carrot.

Randy Stewart said:

I don't care for the people on their cell phones while driving but I'll be d@mned if I want the government to tell me I can't do it. Mandate a class in self respect and respect for the individual and leave my rights alone.

What about the rights of the innocent people who have been injured or killed because someone was driving while talking on a cell phone?

Unfortunately, society has not yet learned enough to respect humankind, so until then, we will have laws to protect ourselves from ourselves.

The choice that someone makes to talk on the phone while driving, could distract them enough to plow into my car. The choice that someone makes to smoke in my face, could ultimately lead to my early death from cancer. The choice that someone makes to drink before climbing behind the wheel could end up with me in a wheelchair or worse, 6 feet under the ground. In these cases, the choice was taken away from me before I was even given the chance.

Eating habits are completely different. I make the choice to eat where I eat. Do I like the fact that they offer healthier options now? Yes! Should it be a law? No. Restaurants serve what restaurants serve. They are beginning to realize that people sometimes want more than just 1/4lb of grease slapped into a bun and stuck under a heating lamp. I want heathly, I'll go to Subway or Mr. Sub. I want greasy, I'll go elsewhere. But the choice is still mine.

What they are probably more concerned with is giving us the option
I understand what they're trying to do. We do have options, go to subway or another place. Don't make a steak house get a license to serve meat like you have to for liquor.
What about the rights of the innocent people who have been injured or killed because someone was driving while talking on a cell phone?
Just for conversation, in the last study it was found that more accidents due to distractions happend to people listening to the radio than smoking or cell phone use. I don't want to be told I can't listen to the radio while driving.
Unfortunately, society has not yet learned enough to respect humankind,
And herein lies the problem. You will not correct this by making more laws or having the government make more legislature. Hold me accountable for my actions and quit letting me blame others and get rich by it. It's just like TV, too much violence, too much sex, well stop watching it if it bothers you. There is a thing called a channel changer.:truce:

Here is a strange but loosely related story from the BBC. Crushed flier wins obesity payout...


Crushed flier wins obesity payout (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/2346319.stm)

Oh my goodness! I feel for that woman. I had to sit next to a really fat guy on a flight from Chicago to NYC about a month ago. He should have been required to pay for two seats since he used 1/2 of mine the entire flight! Fortunately, I suffered no injuries, and the flight was actually early by 1/2 an hour.

I don't think it's fat-discrimination. It's not the airlines, or other suffering passengers' fault that a person is obese. If they use more than one seat, they should pay for it. If a person can't fit in one seat, and they don't want to pay for two, take a train!