I need some more education

What is the difference between a Control Plan and a Process Flow Diagram?

I think I am on the right track, but I need some assurance.

A Process Flow Diagram is like a flow chart showing all the manufacturing steps required to make a part.

A Control Plan provides detail on how each of these steps will be monitored and controled.

Am I on the right track here?

Thanks all.

Regards,
CarolX

Hi Carol,

The "natural" order of the PPAP documents is:
a) Process Flow Diagram which lists (and numerates) each
processing step in the production sequence;
b) PFMEA which investigates all POTENTIAL Failure modes,
Causes, and Controls at each step;
c) The Control Plan which goes into detail concerning the Product
and Process Controls listed in each processing step of the
PFMEA.

Hope this helps some?

Bill,

It sure should! Great explanation

Here’s the quirky way I think of it. Let’s bake a cake. A Control Plan is the recipe card. It tells you all the ingredients, measurements, time and cooking temperatures, etc, that if followed will give you a good cake every time (not like the ones mom used to make that were a bit flat). Process Flow is simply a visual representation of that process from start to finish, without much detail and IMHO is 100 % worthless. If you do the FMEA right, you walk the process from start to finish anyway. Then you generate the CP from the good FMEA,,,……… Just another worthless AIAG document that again confirms to me that they get kickbacks from the paper companies. :bigwave:

Bill, Al and noboxwine

Thanks for you great explanations. Certainly makes more sense now. Especially yours, noboxwine...great anaology. And as a real outsider to all this, it does seem a bit repetative, but.....gotta give the customer what they want.

Regards,
CarolX

as a real outsider to all this Come on Carol, you've been hanging around the Cove (and participating) long enough to be as much of an insider as any of us. It is just no one knows it all, but together we come close!!! :cool:

db,

I guess your right..I've been hanging out here for a while...but this is my first foray into PPAP...hence the outsider comment. Thanks for the uplift!

CarolX

Besides the above points A Control plan (In my Company we call as Process Control Standards) essentialy contain the following:

a) General data
- control plan number,
- issue date, and revision date, if any,
- customer information (see customer requirements),
- organization's name/site designation,
- part number(s),
- part name/description,
- engineering change level,
- phase covered (prototype, pre-launch, production),
- key contact,
- part/process step number,
- process name/operation description.
b) Product control
- product-related special characteristics,
- other characteristics for control (number, product or process),
- specification/tolerance.
c) Process control
- process parameters,
- process-related special characteristics,
- machines, jigs, fixtures, tools for manufacturing.
d) Methods
- evaluation measurement technique., -error-proofing.,
- sample size and frequency, -control method.
b) Reaction plan and corrective actions
- reaction plan (include or reference),
- corrective action.

I just want to say that I am in love with Carol, and do have a processs flow plan to get to my goal!!!!!

Good posts, and good luck Carol! :lick:

Al Dyer said:

I just want to say that I am in love with Carol, and do have a processs flow plan to get to my goal!!!!!

Good posts, and good luck Carol! :lick:

Al,

I bet you say that to all the girls!

Carol

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone that helped me through my first PPAP. I just received a call from my customer and he said it was one of the best PPAP's seen by his people....to which we both chuckled because we both knew this was my first try at it.

I couldn't have done it with out all your help.

Thanks again!!!!!
:bigwave: :bigwave: :bigwave:

CarolX

Congatulations Carol!!! :cool: :cool:

Kinda nice to have a customer give kudos, isn't it?

Bill

Look what you started Carol!!! Now they'll expect that type of PPAP all the time!?!?!?!?!?!?
Good Job. I agree with Bill, that must have been one h*** of a PPAP to get a positive response from a customer.:vfunny:

Hi to all;
As a plating company we have a computer generated Manufacturing Order which is geared to the customer part number. It tells the operator what the area batch size, material, amperage, amp. hours minutes etc. It also details any special notes and the inspection criteria. The operators & inspectors sign off on the M.O. Along with this M.O. there is a step by step process procedure that details what tank to use, how long it should be in there,troubleshooting guides, and so on.

We also have an overall generic process flowchart
starting at the material coming in the door to shipping to the customer.

Do I now take all that information and make it conform to the prescribed process flowcharts, FMEAs and control plans? :bonk:

Hi Jan and welcome :bigwave:

The answer - simply - is Yes!!

It sounds as if your "Generic" Flow chart will need little attention. There is no "prescribed" format for a flow chart unless one of your customers has a format they mandate.

The PFMEA will be your "biggest" hurdle but if your company understands it's processes, it is more a matter of understanding the columns in the FMEA document. It's very easy to get wrapped up in the difference between a Failure Mode and a Failure Cause but the rest of the form is fairly easy to complete. I suggest obtaining the AIAG FMEA manual (3rd ed.) if you don't already have one.

The Control Plan(s) merely take the Failure Mode and Failure Cause columns and place them into the "Characteristics - Product|Process" columns. The entire "right side" of the Control Plan is merely listing the specification, how you are monitoring it, and how you react to a nonconformance.

Hope that helps get you started.
Bill

Welcome Jan,
I don't really have much to add, I think Bill has pointed you in the right direction and I agree about the biggest hurdle. What I have experienced is that you really have to keep focus on the developed process while going through a PFMEA. The first few you do can really be frustrating, mainly due to the word "potential". Remember you're dealing with reality not theoretical. I've had people ask about putting in things like the operator is sick! Focus on the process you have and known problems, you can branch from there if needed.:bigwave:

Originally posted by CarolX

A Control Plan provides detail on how each of these steps will be monitored and controled.



Hi all
I have a confusion now. In my poor concept about the control plan, it is only be used on key processes. But according to the thread, the control plan should be used to each step. In this way, does the control plan look a bit like a working instruction?
Please point out my mistake. :D

Only have a minute - Each step in the process flow needs to be "looked at" in the Control Plan. If you can't produce a nonconformance, there are simply no entries for that step (possibly transport or accumulation/delay steps for example).

While you could take the Control Plan to the "work instruction" level, there are probably some issues your management would have from the proprietary angle, if you send your Control Plans to customers.

Gotta run, but I'll be back :bigwave:

Bill

Originally posted by Bill Ryan
If you can't produce a nonconformance, there are simply no entries for that step (possibly transport or accumulation/delay steps for example).


Thank you Bill, but still a little confusion with quoted as you saying.
If possible can you send a simple control plan to me for better understanding?

thank you :)

Link Xue

Attached is a simple example. Hope it helps clarify my statement.

Bill

you are on the right track. the flow diagram just shows you have considered the steps involved in manufacturing but the control plan detaisl all the measures taken to ensure product quality and in turn customer satisfaction. hope this helps

forgot to attach control plan/flow diagram. i have combined the 2 and this is accepted by assessors