I posted a response on the Quote thread that suggested my boss did not like me spending time at the Cove (he actually encourages it. It makes me better and I do get some good useful info here). That got me thinking. How does your boss feel about your Cove activity? Let us know!

I tried to post that I'm the boss but the post gizmo didn't work (Well actually I'm not. I've been sleeping with the real BOSS for 21 years though)

My boss is pleased that I get good ideas here, but I don't flagrantly sit here and read and post in front of his face. What worries me most is other people passing by and seeing me on the internet and figuring that I'm goofing off. They probably figure I'm in some sort of chat room.

Lucinda, this is an information world and the internet is where you go!!!

As a new training person to an ISO company I had talked with our Quality guy and he actually told me about this forum. It has been in-valuable to me and has made my learning curve go up a lot faster. I do have to agree with db, to some it may same like I'm surfing or chatting. The boss does not have a problem so that is my big concern.

Thanks

My boss has authorized full full membership fees to this site as part of my "Quality Budget". That would qualify as "he don't care if I visit or not". "Do you need it?", he asked. "Yes!" "You got it!" Nice, huh? Do I need it, now? Sometimes.:vfunny: :ko: :smokin:

Lucinda said:

My boss is pleased that I get good ideas here, but I don't flagrantly sit here and read and post in front of his face. What worries me most is other people passing by and seeing me on the internet and figuring that I'm goofing off. They probably figure I'm in some sort of chat room.

I'll have to agree there. Even though I do get a lot of valuable info and hints here, that fact may not be apparent to everyone who passes my room.

/Claes

Can't really vote for any of the choices...so I'll pick number 7.

This is the only place I can come and get an intelligent answer or opinion to any question without getting a dumb look (at least I think so). If they took my computer away today I'd go to the library! :D

I'm with Lucinda -- my direct boss doesn't care, he trusts me that I'm not screwing off, but "others" who don't have all the info. might get the wrong idea, so I don't usually post or read when others are around so as to not rock the boat. Some folks here just look for trouble to start. I think I get more than the "cost" in time of participating. Sound's like Energy's boss has the right attitude -- hire the right folks, trust 'em, and give 'em the tools they need.

I work in the Engineering department as well as running our quality system. As long as my work gets done my boss has no problem with it. If fact, I stress how helpful the cove has been in my task of switching our system from 1994 to 9001.

:D

Jim Wade said:

Lucinda, Claes

Isn't that what one's PA is for - to warn one, from the outer office, of the approach of people who might interrupt one's browsing? ;)

rgds Jim

We work in a cube farm Jim. Opensided, with back facing out. No way to hide what's on your screen:(

but "others" who don't have all the info. might get the wrong idea

This is especially true when I’m dying on the floor laughing at the humor thread! But most consider it better than when I playing Galactic Defender! Besides, when I’m not with a client, I’m just dead weight anyway.

My boss doesnt know, and I wouldnt tell him because the concepts discussed in this forum are way above his head !

Well, I'm downright humbled that folks out there have bosses who encourage them to visit these forums. It's been a busy week for me and I haven't been following the threads. I saw the thread topic and said, "Hmmmmmm..." to myself.

I have to admit I sometimes wondered how some of you 'get away with it' or have the time. I'm doing some work for Stolle - a client from 1991-2 (!) and have a cube there and computer. I feel the common thought in this thread of what others think. I even was thinking about the old forums software - not as 'flashy', more ASQ Forums like, less likely to draw attention. Not that I would go back, but I did think about the differences and how they appear. This software is less 'scholarly', if you will (more flashy?). If I had flashing banner ads it would really be garrish.

I know when I'm on the computer where I'm working I try to be discreet, but I never close or change the window when someone does come by or stops to talk or whatever. In part that's because I see so many people perusing the weather, a news web site or other 'non-work related' site and when you walk by they actually think you don't see them change the screen.... It's amusing to me. Usually you can see the surprise and a look of guilt come over their face. I guess if you feel guilty about what you're doing it shows.

To make things a bit weirder, a gal came in today from corporate to do some 'independant' audits with me and as we were talking she said she's been visiting the Cove for 2 or 3 years. I almost felt naked. I was thinking: "God, she knows I'm the nut who keeps that weird forum up where there are Zoloft threads, Road Kill threads and all the other stuff (seen the fights, etc.). What SHALL I do???"

But then I realized that she must like something about it or she wouldn't have been coming back for so long. She told me she got a lot of help here over the last couple of years.

But - these are just a few of my thoughts. It feels good to know so many people find help here. I guess I never thought of someone's boss actually encouraging them to visit the Cove forums.

My thanks to each of you who give of yourselves to help to others. You ARE the Cove Forums! So to each of you, remember that now you can say there are bosses out there actually encouraging people to come to you for help!

This place is a valuable resource for many of us. While some may reference a Machinist's Handbook for some engineering information, we in the world of ISO and Quality reach for the Juran Handbook, or, in my case, the Cove Search Engine.

I practice discretion with my activity at the Cove during work hours though. While many threads are work relavent, many discussions aren't specifically timely enough for me to be a point of need use. In these cases, I try not not engage into discussion or respond as a moderator. With the fairly recent purchase of a new home computer, I elected to have the notifications come directly to my home rather than my work address. While my response times are delayed by this, I avoid the awkward explanation of what I am doing with my time. I do try to get to the Cove before the start of work, during lunch, or at the end of the day. Overall, I don't feel guilty nor have I had to defend my browsing.

Still, having to explain the value of the Cove may be a difficult sell for many. If Quality or ISO are not a priority, I think your visiting the Cove during work hours would draw a big frown from one's boss.:eek:

Kev

Part of Marc's comments:

but I never close or change the window when someone does come by or stops to talk

Part of Kevin's comments:This place is a valuable resource for many of us.

I combined these two for a reason. I make the Cove a big deal. When I find something useful, I send out an email stating it came from the Cove. The same thing if I print something out. Most folks have no idea what the "Cove" is, but they assume it is a reference center. Like Marc, I don't change the screen (I too think it is ammusing). Instead I try to refer to the thread. I ask the thread question, and ask the visitor what they think? Yes, even the roadkill stuff! :vfunny:

They all think I'm nuts, but they also think the Cove has some pretty good information, and to that... I agree!:agree:

Dave,

I know what you mean. I constantly refer to the Cove as a place to get an answer and refer folks here. Most...don't bother to seek an answer.

Kev

After I registered, I've got two others from my office to register. We think it is a great resource. I also keep recommending it to everyone who has anything to do with quality.

Atul Khandekar said:

We think it is a great resource. I also keep recommending it to everyone who has anything to do with quality.

Yep.. Same here. I keep telling people about this place, and I've had a link from my personal web site to the Cove for many years.

/Claes

Nice site Claes!

Any new entries / votes? It's been 2 years...

I voted that my boss does not care though that is not entirely true. He sometimes frowns when he walks by and sees me on the forums, but I have explained that I do not get any input from him or the others here regarding quality so I have to seek advice from other quality professionals when I have to find ways to do things he has agreed to that I have never done before (Process Sign-off, overseeing external processes, etc...). Then he leaves me alone. I have also, talked to him about cost saving ideas related to quality and when he agrees that they make sense to him if they came from the Cove I make sure he knows so he keeps balanced. Depending on his mood I sometimes click the forums off but usually I leave them on so he can see that I am not playing solitare or just surfing. He often asks "what you workin' on?" so I say what I am looking for and what I have found. He has to ask because some are jealous thinking I just float along. So he gathers ammo to answer their objections to my being online.
Thanks Marc for a great site, thanks all for all your input, together you have made my job do-able. :agree1:
Mark :thanx:

I did answer that my employers (both Fluor Hanford and City University) do encourage it. For Fluor, it is a bit indirect in that they do ask at performance appraisal time to document professional development activities, so the Cove is included in that annual listing. Officially Fluor is desirable of professional development, but is weak in providing it. So, I use the Cove to fill that company desire.

For City University, we are utilizing the Cove for discussion between MBA students and practitioners.

I can say that, my employer has a "Love Hate relationship" with the Cove.
I have been approached recently and, advised (Told) to refrain from getting too involved with the Cove as, it's clear that, many derogatory comments are made regarding my employers approach to process and quality in general.
Whils't I empathize with my superiors, I absolutely don't sypathize.
The Cove is IMO, the most comprehensive knowledge base currently available for professionals and seekers alike regarding, process and business quality issues.
I certainly won't decline to make comments from time to time at the Cove and, I certainly won't be bullied by corporate As****s, who know nothing of business or even the meaning of process.:mad:
Wallace.

There are two levels of response that I can give --

At the local department level:

The boss won't say anything because I referred him to The Cove!
I list participation in the professional activities part of my annual deliverables report.
At the corporate IT policy level:

THOU SHALT NOT ... & etc. (but it's not blocked by the proxy server like my Yahoo! mail is)

I feel this is a most valuable resource, and I can highly recommend it to anyone in need. (In need of quality solutions, or in need of a good laugh - depending on the forum!) If needed, I think I can readily justify particiaption to anyone who questions it. I can't say anywhere near as much about the forums hosted by a certain professional society that has been soundly thrashed in here ... Many thanks and appreciations to Marc, the moderators, fellow contributors and all regular or irregular participants!

:agree1: :applause: :thanx:

My boss is unaware that the cove exists, one of my co - workers discovered the cove the other day and passed it on to me. Are you in here?
I do however want to let everyone know about the cove! good education and help here!!! :applause:

My boss is unaware that the cove exists, one of my co - workers discovered the cove the other day and passed it on to me. Are you in here?
I do however want to let everyone know about the cove! good education and help here!!! :applause:
We note you've had the courage to make a few posts since you joined the Cove a couple of days ago. We hope you'll soon be one of the "old hands" able to offer advice and support to others.

Welcome to the Cove!:bigwave:

:rolleyes: We note you've had the courage to make a few posts since you joined the Cove a couple of days ago. We hope you'll soon be one of the "old hands" able to offer advice and support to others.

Welcome to the Cove!:bigwave:

that is my goal, knowledge is power but knowledge is also a waste if not shared.

that is my goal, knowledge is power but knowledge is also a waste if not shared.Well said, and let me echo the welcome http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/bigwave-d2.gif

/Claes

My boss first frowned on this use of my time. He said something like, but don't you already know what you need to know? I chuckled, and asked him if he knew all of the answers to those things that were part of his ever-changing job description. I think we are OK now with my occasional use of this forum...........

Yes - I know this is an old thread, but I thought it warrants a <bump>.

Looking at the poll results, I was surprised to see one person said they fear being fired if they 'participated' (I assume this means at work...).

I wonder about the 3 that are 'discouraged' from 'participating' (again, I assume at work).

Yes - I know this is an old thread, but I thought it warrants a <bump>.

Looking at the poll results, I was surprised to see one person said they fear being fired if they 'participated' (I assume this means at work...).

I wonder about the 3 that are 'discouraged' from 'participating' (again, I assume at work).

What's to wonder about?? A lot of companies have policies regarding the use of internet access during work. These policies doesn't just apply to watching X-rated or political material but also things like "excessive use and/or wasting time". Becoming smarter is not necessarily something you get paid for :notme:

I voted for "Doesn't care" only because it hasn't been brought up. Maybe he doesn't know.

My boss is pleased that I get good ideas here, but I don't flagrantly sit here and read and post in front of his face. What worries me most is other people passing by and seeing me on the internet and figuring that I'm goofing off. They probably figure I'm in some sort of chat room.

Yeah I think exactly the same thing, it's those Smileys that make people think I am messing around>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't use the Cove all the time at work, but then I don't really use it at home as I see it as too work related, but I don't hide the fact that I use it at work. The IT Boss (my boss too incidently) can see who visits what sites and when anyway, and I haven't been told off for using this site yet!

Anyway better go he's coming!

I voted "Doesn't Care"....yet. He has not mentioned to me yet that I am spending too much time on the Cove. My boss monitors EVERYTHING. I hate that. I can tell that all my emails are read because he had info that no one else had in the company. My boss does not like anyone to be on the internet for too long. Internet use (sites visited) is monitored too.
I keep it professional to Quality sites, etc. during work hours but before work hours and lunch time are free to surf. This year, though, is the first time I have ever been really active in the Cove. I've started to come out of my shell. :o

I don't know.
The internet policy is pretty lax here so if I had to guess I would say that he doesn't care.
I mean, there are people here whose monitors are in full view of anyone passing by and they are on everything from CNN to SI.com to eBay. Some guys I know of spend the last hour of the day playing games on sites like addictinggames.com so I don't think the IT department is spying too hard.

At least I keep most of my surfing somewhat professional (cove, various ISO pages, ASQ, OSHA, etc.)

This is an interesting discussion. For me - I have been away from "Quality" for about 7-8 years (back when ASQ was ASQC). I really needed to "brush up" and revitalize old brain cells.:notme:

I found the Cove from a mention on an ASQ discussion board and although I visit there too, the Cove has become my primary resource for information. I've mentioned this to my boss and shown him some of the stuff I've downloaded to help "us" out, and he is quite fine with it. My new company is rather progressive, which I really like - that's why I moved here in the first place. I was enjoying "Design Engineering", but I couldn't be happier with my new job - even it I've taken on the headache :frust: of returning to the Quality profession! ;)

For me, this is how I start each day before things get rolling - checking the "Top Ten" list at the front of the forum. If nothing too interesting there, I start my day. Of course, when I have a question - this is where I come. If it's not "company specific" and just a general quality question, where else can you go where you have a virtual office full of Quality Professionals from around the world with the centuries of experience compiled here!!!:agree1: :applause:

I haven't said this except on specific questions asked - but THANKS MARC! I'm hoping to shake hands for a personal thank you some day, but for now I hope the "Post Icon" will do... And to all of those that have helped me directly and indirectly - Thanks to you all as well!!!:applause: You've all significanly shortened my "relearning curve". :thanx:

I'm sure this is "well known", but to some bosses (and I've had 'em in the past), "knowledge is POWER".:whip: If you become more useful, they feel they are loosing their ultimate power over you. For those of you in that situation - I can relate! ...but that's a topic for a whole other discussion...

~Steve

I haven't said this except on specific questions asked - but THANKS MARC! I'm hoping to shake hands for a personal thank you some day, but for now I hope the "Post Icon" will do... And to all of those that have helped me directly and indirectly - Thanks to you all as well!!! :applause:

The moderators and all the 'regulars' deserve all the Thanks! These days I pretty much just try to keep the site online and moving along.

I am happy that you get so much from the site. That's the purpose.

I saw this and it sorta fits...

From APC Magazine (http://www.apcstart.com/site/dwarne/2006/08/1104/unlock-work-internet-or-risk-losing-staff-microsoft):

Jobseekers will think twice about employers who lock down work internet access, a senior Microsoft executive said today.

“These kids are saying: forget it! I don’t want to work with you. I don’t want to work at a place where I can’t be freely online during the day,” said Anne Kirah, Microsoft Senior Design Anthropologist.

“People that I meet are saying this to me every day, all over the world.”

Kirah made the comments during the keynote at the opening of Microsoft’s annual developer love-in, Tech.Ed, in Sydney.

“Companies all over the world are saying, oh, you can’t be on the internet while you’re at work. You can’t be on instant messaging at work…” she said. “These are digital immigrant ideas.”

Kirah defines ‘digital immigrants’ as people who were not born into the digital lifestyle and view it as a distraction rather than an integral part of life. The younger generation of workers have been using computers and mobile phones since birth and she calls them ‘digital natives’.

Kirah cited a Norwegian psychologist who claimed that young people were now so reliant on digital communication that “taking a mobile phone away from a teenage girl is the same as child abuse.”

“Digital communication is part of people’s lives now. Their friends online are the people they identify with.”

Microsoft Australia Group Manager of Technical Communities Frank Arrigo said people were so frustrated with limited internet access at work that they were finding their own workarounds anyway.

People were increasingly making use of anonymous proxies that couldn’t be easily blocked by corporate firewalls, bringing in their own wireless broadband services for use with a personal laptop or with a work PC or accessing instant messaging via mobile phones and PDAs.

“People are hitting security barriers put in by the owners of the infrastructure, but employers see internet access as bad for productivity.”

“Bill Gates said years ago that if you worry about internet productivity, you’re worrying about people stealing pens from your stationery cupboard… there are bigger things to worry about.”

“Organisations have valid concerns about security risks, but all you need is technology to secure the network perimiter properly,” Arrigo said.

“We know of one woman who was so frustrated with her work blocking her 9 to 5 internet access that she’d spend her evenings doing research online and then she’d email it to herself to read at work the next day… there are a million ways around these limitations.”

Arrigo said employers needed to rethink their assumptions about internet usage. “For a lot of people now, instant messaging is a legitimate work tool that allows quick communication between colleagues, avoiding voicemail-tag and long distance charges, yet many companies block instant messaging completely.”

“They only see the downside of it; they assume it’s a time waster.”

While Kirah and Arrigo’s comments no doubt resonate with many frustrated office workers around the world, they also have a business motivation for Microsoft.

Because Microsoft’s Windows Live services will be advertiser-funded, the more people that have access to them, the more money Microsoft makes.

“Our business model is advertising. With advertising you want reach,” George Moore, General Manager Windows Live Platform told APC.

Frank Arrigo said it wasn’t only about using the net at work: employees are also becoming increasingly frustrated with companies that don’t make it easy to access complete company network resources from home.

“The tools are available, but it’s a matter of educating IT departments that it can be done securely. In the case of Microsoft, our 70,000 staff have a smart card that authenticates a secure network link in to work.”

I saw this and it sorta fits...

From APC Magazine (http://www.apcstart.com/site/dwarne/2006/08/1104/unlock-work-internet-or-risk-losing-staff-microsoft):

The internet started taking off shortly after I started working.
I was one of the first in my first company to have a compuserve account on Windows 3.1 and a modem. Then at my second place it really took off - all office people had email and internet access. And that's continued.
The most I've been regulated was one place where you were allowed 1 hour of internet per day and it didn't matter where you went (besides banned sites like porn and gambling of course) - you could be reading the news or making travel plans... once your hour was up, you were blocked.

I've often thought about what I did before taking these internet "mini breaks".
Before I was married I suppose it was flirting with the single women at work. Or just BSing with coworkers about sports or politics. Or talking on the phone.
I guess it all equals out.
I mean, in my mind I'd rather see one of my staff kill 10 minutes reading on-line than smoking a cigarette outside.

Good moring all...:bigwave:

I was reading my moring "Dilbert" and, as Dilbert usually is, it was right on topic for this discussion (well almost - I think Alice was on the Cove) :lol:

5631 :lmao:

Could "Alice" actually be Crusader???:cool:

-Steve

I saw this and it sorta fits... Certainly it does...

Besides, how many companies limit the use of phones these days? Looking back a bit, the situation used to be very similar to how internet access is regarded today: You had to prove that you needed it, and even then you didn't always get it. Doesn't that sound pretty ridiculous today?

The internet will go the same way. The only reason for the fuzz today is that it is still relatively new... (while those in charge more often than not got there before the internet took off :rolleyes: ).

/Claes

Funny Dilbert - a little too close to home with the exception of the filthy images. :D The other day I was in the Cove answering a post, my boss walks up to tell me to me to go shoot photos of a display and keeps looking at the monitor and me, head going back and forth, to see what I am doing. I may start limiting my Cove visits to before & after work hours and lunch time. I'l have to turn off the instant email notification so posts cannot be read too. My boss reads the phone usage listing too for all employees from what I was told. Checks to see who has been on the phone for personal calls and the longer calls are flagged.....then you are notified. Hasn't ever happened to me (too busy) but others, yes.
Wanna come work here?

Wanna come work here?

I think I have worked there (although I don't remember CA or seeing you around, but the "boss" seems eerily familiar!):mg:

Funny Dilbert - a little too close to home with the exception of the filthy images. :D The other day I was in the Cove answering a post, my boss walks up to tell me to me to go shoot photos of a display and keeps looking at the monitor and me, head going back and forth, to see what I am doing. I may start limiting my Cove visits to before & after work hours and lunch time. I'l have to turn off the instant email notification so posts cannot be read too. My boss reads the phone usage listing too for all employees from what I was told. Checks to see who has been on the phone for personal calls and the longer calls are flagged.....then you are notified. Hasn't ever happened to me (too busy) but others, yes.
Wanna come work here?

Crusader, set up an email to a hotmail or yahoo address, as long as you have access to the internet you will be to view the posts subscribed to.

Crusader, set up an email to a hotmail or yahoo address, as long as you have access to the internet you will be to view the posts subscribed to.

Yep - I thought of creating an account from my home email. I can create up to 5 or 6 user accounts at home and I only have 3 in use. (Cox cable)

It's just irritating to be watched like a hawk...it is stressful. Some of you noticed that I changed my username.....Gee, I wonder why? I didn't want to be so obvious using my first name. No one at work knows me by Crusader...except for 1, who is also a Cove member.

I will be away at our Foundry today...maybe catchup tomorrow morning.
C-ya!

Funny Dilbert - a little too close to home with the exception of the filthy images. :D The other day I was in the Cove answering a post, my boss walks up to tell me to me to go shoot photos of a display and keeps looking at the monitor and me, head going back and forth, to see what I am doing. I may start limiting my Cove visits to before & after work hours and lunch time. I'l have to turn off the instant email notification so posts cannot be read too. My boss reads the phone usage listing too for all employees from what I was told. Checks to see who has been on the phone for personal calls and the longer calls are flagged.....then you are notified. Hasn't ever happened to me (too busy) but others, yes.
Wanna come work here?


Well, at least you've got the job that I want;)

I think part of the equation is how one approaches the forum and web site. I know there are people who go to their bosses and tell them about the site and how much help it is. If they understand what and why, one can to some degree immunize themselves against a 'boss' or other person thinking they're 'playing' on the internet.

When ever anyone registers I get an e-mail with the basics, including their answer to "How did you find the Elsmar Cove?". Quite often I see "My boss told me about it" or "A co-worker told me about it". From this I know there are quite a few bosses out there, and co-workers, who WANT their empoyees to use the internet for the advantage to the company.

I have told my boss about the site and our information technology folks monitor sight we go to. He has never given me a yea or nay attitude toward it so I keep coming. I haven't received too much flak about it yet of course I also have to watch what I post as they are pretty anal about intellectual property.