Most of the certified companies state that at least once a year. Then they record only one year a time. Is it possible to review the work only on time a year? :biglaugh: :eek: :vfunny: :confused:

The last sentence should be "Is it possible to review the work one time a year?"

Hi,

It is certainly possible, as the requirement is "at planned intervals" without saying how long the intervals should be, but is it desirable? One year is a long time...

It's up to you to decide what is best for your buissness.

We've been discussing this before. Have a look at the following threads:

Quarterly vs. Yearly Internal Audits (http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4506)

Can our daily operations meeting be considered as Management Review? (http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4344)


/Claes

Here is my advice to companies. First look at the anticipated change or threats to the QMS (or EMS). I've just started working with a company and I suggested a management review every other week!!!! Just like a baby, new systems require constant attention and resource allocation on the fly.

As the system matures, the management review can slack off (provided the change slows). After registration, the organization could go to quarterly for the first year or so. Once the system is mature and provided there are no threats, then yearly might be okay, but with the level of change we see today, I wouldn’t go much past that. One company I work with has a semi-annual schedule. However, they have a bullet list of about five items that would trigger a management review within 30 days.

We'll in our case, we document our operations meeting as a management review since all of the department heads are there or in any case, their representative was there to answer the action items that was been thrown to them.
More frequent management review , the better because you don't have to wait for one year to followup/close all action items.
Hope this helps.

I think that if you are self employed or a small business in a competitive market, then you quickly understand the need to know your critical business processes and to continually reveiw and adjust them. Like the infamous annual employee appraisal, annual management review is often just a waste of time.

Systems that show problems as soon as they emerge (requiring a culture of good communication, trust, honesty etc) so that they can then be dealt with are much more effective.

Brian Hu

Hi All,

We do it every 14 days - started with every week. However, I guess we shall document it as every 30 days, quarter or a year. It IS management review every second week. However it is will be easier to present evidence of the review done every month or even more rarely. The data will be easier to compare.

The review we arrange every second week is more like operative management meetings in connection with quality issues.

regards,

Anton

Somebody said to me that;

Before implementing the ISO 9000, head of departments of this college meet every Wendesday. Because all of them are appointed to be the steering committee, they still meet every week to discussing the activities. But they put the agenda to comply with the managment review.

Is it an amazing idea?:biglaugh:

Hi folks!
Of course any human organised disciplined effective-oriented (a.s.o) activiy has to be reviewed as often as necesary. But if we read carefully 5.6 of 9001 and the recomandations from 9004 there are many reasons not to establish a weekly even monthly frequency for Management rewiev in the sense of ISO. Why?
"Top management shall rewiev the organisation's quality management sistem..." Don't tell me in every weekly operative meetings you have all data to rewiev the entire QMS.
"This rewiev shall include assessing opportunities for improvement and the need for changes to the QMS, including the quality policy and quality objectives"
So, if there is something makes me think to frequency of m.r. the last sentence is. You can't change your quality policy so often. You could give every operational meeting what ever form you want including the one ISO ask, but the external auditor won't ask you about your operational meetings.
I always try to see beyond the words and to understand the spirit of standard.

In small business with bare minimum staff it is often not possible for all the members of MRC to get together and discuss MRM agenda. Is it possible to conduct MRM in piecemeal?

(Rohit)

My thoughts on this are that you need to have sufficient elapsed time on which to base your review. A review every week may well only look at the previous weeks results. If we understand processes and variation we should know not to 'meddle' with the system based on one 'measure' of the system.

Managers review a lot of things, but I think the intent of ISO9000 is for a holistic review of the whole system, for which substantial data will be needed in order to come to some factual based decisions.

Perhaps an annual review is too long, and perhaps a single meeting is unproductive. The format we often see is questionable, but I think you need data from a reasonable amount of time.

Rohit Garg said:

In small business with bare minimum staff it is often not possible for all the members of MRC to get together and discuss MRM agenda. Is it possible to conduct MRM in piecemeal?

(Rohit)

Good first post Rohin. Welcome to the cove.

There is no requirement in the standard telling us that we have to cover everything that should be done in the MR in one single go. In fact, there is no requirement forcing us to perform the MR in meetings at all: All it says is that we have to review the system...

/Claes

We do a formal MR 4x per year, although bits and pieces are done informally sometimes daily.

In 5.6.1.1 Quality management system performance, the supplement to Managment review of ISO 9001:2000, states that part of the management review shall be the mornitoring of quality objectives, and the regular reporting and evaluation of the cost of poor quality.

Is evaluation of the cost of poor quality a mandated one? How often of the regular reporting? Who report to whom?:biglaugh:

Hi!;)
I think what you mentioned here is about ISO/TS requirement. Anyway for our side we did report of our monthly rework charges of our products to MD every month. The reports is prepared by our finance dept. and cc to all related dept. managers. During our management review that held every 6 months, top management will decide the target and priority on how to reduce the cost of poor quality. This activity also a part of our continual improvement program.
:cool:

Yes, it is in ISO/TS 16949.
The business plan is also mentioned in this 5.6.1.1.
:biglaugh:

Our CEO and approx 8 VPs meet every week for their Exec meeting. We've now started using this as Management Review.

It's not just QA - they're looking at all areas of the business, through our Balanced Scorecard (a series of business objectives used to set targets throughout the company). QA is one of many inputs.

Every other week, I report at this meeting on Internal Audits, External Audits, ISO 9001:2000 transition, Corrective Actions, NCRs etc. None of it is a meeting set up specifically for 'Management Review'. It's just the Exec having their usual weekly meeting to keep a check on what's happening in the business. Forget about ISO. They're just running the company.

:bigwave:

Management reviews hlep the management to evaluate the effectiveness of the quality system. It is advisable to hold the meeting once in three months so that the top management has the opportunity to keep the things under control.

The internal audit results can be reviewed and any improvements needed can be discussed. As per the new standard the inputs and outputs for the management review are given clearly. The management has to review the attributes mentioned in the standard and this has to form the minutes of the meeting.

One meeting in a yaer is too long and there is a possibility of things going out of control

venkat said:

... It is advisable to hold the meeting once in three months so that the top management has the opportunity to keep the things under control.

The internal audit results can be reviewed and any improvements needed can be discussed....

One meeting in a yaer is too long and there is a possibility of things going out of control

I don't believe that there is any one advisable 'right answer' to this, but if there are internal audit results with findings, and improvements need to be made, isn't 3 months a little long?

If Management Review is only held four times a year, I believe there should be some other forum for getting action taken on audit results, as well as everything else on the list.

I suggest caution about just using the list from the standard as the 'inputs and outputs' for Management Review. Management Review is about what's right for the company. What's ISO got to do with anything? :confused:

Caroline said:

I don't believe that there is any one advisable 'right answer' to this, but if there are internal audit results with findings, and improvements need to be made, isn't 3 months a little long?

------X--------

I suggest caution about just using the list from the standard as the 'inputs and outputs' for Management Review. Management Review is about what's right for the company. What's ISO got to do with anything? :confused:

Well said Caroline. I think you're absolutley right. And welcome to the Cove...:bigwave:

/Claes

I love this place!!

My company is reasonably small enough that chats around the coffee maker could satisfy the requirement if we documented them--on a napkin perhaps--and the owners while not subscribing to the sham of a paperless office, are huge fans of the meetingless office, which is a precious commodity in my mind.

We use comprehensive monthly and quarterly reports with "details pertinent to the health and management of the QMS" with a fair degree of coffee-clatch audit reviews and approvals along the way.

So given the flexibility in the standard, and perhaps the desire to improve the business with the process but not the meetings does anyone else have a system in place that works without all the meetings, or a better plan for one?

A friend of mine ask me is the management review, review by the management or of the management?

Please help me answer the question!

IMHO there is a huge circular reference in answering who really gets reviewed in a management review, and regardless of what ISO intends the truth has mystical properties that only Scatt Adams seems willing to unravel.

If you dig into it far enough its management.

I review managemnt every day when I investigate process and production issues because it all starts at the top. (My top is real close to the bottom, but not everyone has such a short climb.) Your situation may be different.

When we review that "stuff" in the 'meeting' we are reviewing how well the QMS is being allowed to measure managements commitment. If you are lucky it is doing al lthe things it was dreamt up to do and everyone learns something.


I let them think different, and they seem more receptive, but I know the truth.






:frust:

once in three months is good. once a year is ok from standard prospective but , i feel , for the system to be effective, need to be conducted more frequently followup of action points is important

My company follows once in 3 months. Everymonth review happens on the targets. but once in 3 months, a list is taken from the standard and we will have the review as per the check list.

IMHO there is a huge circular reference in answering who really gets reviewed in a management review, and regardless of what ISO intends the truth has mystical properties that only Scatt Adams seems willing to unravel.

If you dig into it far enough its management.

I review managemnt every day when I investigate process and production issues because it all starts at the top. (My top is real close to the bottom, but not everyone has such a short climb.) Your situation may be different.

When we review that "stuff" in the 'meeting' we are reviewing how well the QMS is being allowed to measure managements commitment. If you are lucky it is doing al lthe things it was dreamt up to do and everyone learns something.


I let them think different, and they seem more receptive, but I know the truth.






:frust:


Eh I often feel the same way, but isn't that against the spirit?

We do our meetings thrice a year, as we conclude the internal audits. Unless we keep MRM this frequent I doubt that we would be able to acheive our goals this quickly as we do. :thanks:

i prefer monthly review would be the best...:cool:

Is it possible for us to conduct many separate MRMs instead of one big?
Does ISo 9001/ 17025 or 17020 allows us?
If yes, can we documents all those agenda points discussed ?
Any comment is appriciated.:thanks:

We formally do management review twice a year, but informally we are doing it much more often. We're working on changing the formal frequency to monthly. It's too useful a process to do as infrequently as 2x annually, and it's inconvenient to have to document the difference between a formal MRM and an informal meeting that pulls together the same people to review the same spread of concerns.