:bigwave: Does anyone have a well documented supplier audit. We are outsourcing 80% of our product now and our ISO needs have changed. Our auditor told us we need to develop a system to audit our suppliers and although I have a 3 page audit it is not enough. Does anyone have a handle on the flow down requirements and what works best.:agree:

What you should have asked your auditor is where in the standard it requires that you audit your suppliers? You need to evaluate and re-evaluate your suppliers and maintain the records of the evaluation and re-evaluation it mentions nothing about auditing them. Evaluation can be done in a variety of ways like survey/questionnaires or incoming inspections. JMHO but when they told you that you needed to develop a system to audit suppliers you should had said show me where that is required.

Agreed.

I should have been more clear. We have been using the supplier audit in the past and once we showed the auditor the audit it was not sufficient. I am looking for a better audit or a better way to evaluate and re-evaluate our suppliers. We have tried a score card system in the past but it doesn't work well with our KBM system. We are moving to BPIX and have hopes we can make it work. Suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks for the input I know many times we have had to tell our auditors that we feel we have met the standard althought it isn't the way in which they would like to see it.

I still do not understand, but I'm dense sometimes.

Why, specifically, is the current audit not sufficient?
Did you decide this or did the auditor?

Why did you show the auditor the audit report in he first place, what you should have shown him was a cover sheet that shows the audit was completed by XXX on XXXX and they remain on the approved supplier list. If you want to show him the report that is your choice but IMHO you are opening pandoras box.

Our auditor requested the audit from a P.O. she was auditing. There was a problem with the flowdown of requirements on assembly piece parts rev levels etc. Anyway she wanted to see the audit we did on the supplier to check our evaluation process. We do not keep a cover sheet and that is a good idea. Thanks .. Being that we are new to outsourcing so many parts there are many things we had not considered in our ISO System to qualify our suppliers. On 1 piece parts before we just required that they make it to print and then we did a first article. we have so much to consider now.

Sorry, but I'm still confused. Did the ISO auditor say that since there was a problem with the vendor, then your supplier audit and method of qualifying suppliers is not sufficient? If you can give more details it would be helpful. Or post a copy of your current "insufficient" audit questionaire (is it a self-audit or do you visit the supplier?).

Or, perhaps someone else understands the issue better than I and can help.

kspurling said:

Our auditor requested the audit from a P.O. she was auditing. There was a problem with the flowdown of requirements on assembly piece parts rev levels etc. Anyway she wanted to see the audit we did on the supplier to check our evaluation process.

She wanted to see the audit from a P.O.??? Did you tell her you audited that supplier. The key here is your "evaluation process" that does not mean they have to be audited. Like Mike said do you have more information you can provide, this is confusing.:bonk:

Obviously our auditor is very thorough. The evaluation process need corrective action. We used an onsite audit and based on their answers they were added to the ASL. Our auditor has been with us a long time and knew of our massive change from being a plant that did all of our own fabrication to a plant that outsources large assemblies and makes the final assembly in the plant. The auditor had concerns about our evaluation process. It didn't meet the expectations because it lacked information that is important. Although we may have visited the plant and deemed a supplier "Approved" as I am sure our Purchasing dept. did it was not documented enough. I was asking for ideas and suggestions on a good evaluation process. I am stuck on the audit process because that is what I am most familiar. I am a one plant QA person and I only have experience based on this plant and its previous practices of which we did well for many years on our ISO Audits.

It sounds more like your auditor had insider information that made their audit easier. But that's beside the point - you let the cat out of the bag and now you're in recovery mode. Check out the QS-9000 QSA in there you will see questions with the * by them. Those were label to be used as a base for a supplier audit. In all actuality, you not your auditor, decide what is necessary for your suppliers to be deemed "approved". I don't care if you have to do 2 hours of rework per supplied part, that is your choice (not a good one but yours to make) as long as they made it on the as you have documented. The auditor is comparing you to a standard and by what your documentation states. It is not their responsibility to make you more profitable nor is it to set company policy. ISO doesn't require a supplier audit, however if you choose to do one it still doesn't make the results auditable.

Correct, we are very forthcoming with our auditor because we haven't had any problems for years. Our auditor won't consult us but they will suggest something is or isn't a good practice. Ok, thank you very much for your suggestions. I will be training for full implementation of 9000 - 2000 and perhaps I will close whatever hang up they have and will let our mgmt. know that the auditors need only the information they ask for, no less and no more. We want the Quality System to be a good one and have always went along suggestions by our auditors. Thanks

I am also looking for great suggestion of the flowdown of requirements to suppliers. Do you use P.O.s or Blueprints to let suppliers know the rev. levels of piece parts or assemblies. We send the P.O. on the up assembly part but the piece parts may have had a rev. change that was communicated to them with an effectivity date but it doesn't show on the PO or the Up-assembly print. How do you flowdown the piece part revs?