I need some help.
For one of the parts being developed by us, we asked for some deviations which our customer does not accept in writing but advises us verbally to submit samples with the deviations saying that he shall consider accepting the deviations on receipt of samples. How can I send PPAP samples without getting their acceptance of the deviations. What do the forum users feel I should do?

Andrews - samples don't need a PPAP. They are conceptual samples for the customer's consideration. Once he agrees to the change, then you will need to PPAP.

Following the instructions of the customer takes precident over QS-9000. If the customer says send me some samples without a PPAP - so be it.

Dave

We submit an "Engineering" sample to the customer prior to each PPAP.
An excellent method for customer feedback and for less paperwork.

We have done this on numerous parts. We supply the samples with all call outs and cpk data on the requested deviation. What I have found to be true, in majority of the cases, was that the customer wants parts to build with, not necessarily PSW parts, and if you show that your process and parts are repeatable and capable, they will issue the deviation. Usually just required a mean shift to be cpk compliant.

Prove it with data.

All good comments, and I can only add to get everything in writing. It is amazing how a verbal "OK" or "consent" can turn into a blank mind when trouble comes down the pike.

Dear Andrews,

Apart from lot of input you got from forum users, I want add little to it.

There is intermediate stage called pilot lot between sample & PPAP, normally a batch of 5 to 10 pieces. You can send PPAP lot only after approval of Pilot lot.

T S Rao:agree:

Dear Andrews,

Apart from lot of input you got from forum users, I want add little to it.

There is intermediate stage called pilot lot between sample & PPAP, normally a batch of 5 to 10 pieces. You can send PPAP lot only after approval of Pilot lot.

T S Rao:agree:

This isn't universally true; it depends on the individual customer requirements. Many automotive customers will want to see some sort of prototype samples, but that's a different subject from what the OP is apparently referring to.

I need some help.
For one of the parts being developed by us, we asked for some deviations which our customer does not accept in writing but advises us verbally to submit samples with the deviations saying that he shall consider accepting the deviations on receipt of samples. How can I send PPAP samples without getting their acceptance of the deviations. What do the forum users feel I should do?

I feel you are talking about the PPAP lot.Initially you submit your samples,5-10 pieces,there after you are required to send the PPAP lot of 500/1000 pieces as per the customer's requirement;at this stage the documents with/without any deviation(s) are freezed.

No customer will permit you any deviation before the PPAP lot,the deviation(s) may be given after examination of the PPAP lot.It is up to you to decide wheather you depend upon their verbal commitment or not.If you feel the customer is dependable or can be relied upon then you may go ahead.

Hope this hellps

No customer will permit you any deviation before the PPAP lot,the deviation(s) may be given after examination of the PPAP lot.

Not true. GM, for example, has an Interim Approval Process for cases like this, where the customer agrees to accept nonconforming situations/parts on a conditional basis.

Not true. GM, for example, has an Interim Approval Process for cases like this, where the customer agrees to accept nonconforming situations/parts on a conditional basis.

Thanks for your information,I was not aware of the practice at GM and my observation is about the practice in vogue. :cool:

Thanks for your information,I was not aware of the practice at GM and my observation is about the practice in vogue. :cool:

There are lots of situations where there are insignificant nonconforming conditions, and customers are generally loathe to hold up production because of them. There are also situations where product is being made using something other than the full intended production process, or alternate packaging is being used. It's generally expected, however, that all of these things will be reconciled before final PPAP approval.