Hi there,

What is the definition of "positive recall"?

Is it the case where the organization voluntarily call the customer after defective parts have been shipped?

Please comment.

Thanks.

hi


Positive recall: the ability to trace the origin of non-inspected materials or product that enter a process through an approved procedure exception; or any use of quality system documentation to recall any documented component or activity.

Rosana :)

Thanks, Rosana.

I recall seeing the term somewhere in one of the standards but I could not remember where it was.

After a while (two cups of coffee!), I fould out that it was mentioned in QS9000, 4.10.3.

Thanks again.
Paul N.

What we used in our company is that the component which is very much needed to the assembly line and it has not been inspected by quality people(supplier quality) say the component comes at 4.30 PM and it is very urgent for line then the component can be supplied to the assembly line using positive recall system meaning that the components will be assembled and the end products will not be shipped untill the component is checked by the receiving inspection and accepted. Saying that if that partiuclar lot of components is rejected (if found defective or rejected in receiving inspection)by the receiving inspection then all the end products will be quarantined and the components will be removed and send back to the supplier.
Hope this helps

paulnguyen said:

Hi there,

What is the definition of "positive recall"?

Is it the case where the organization voluntarily call the customer after defective parts have been shipped?

Please comment.

Thanks.

Of course the standard requires 100% on time delinery from your supplier to you and you to your customer. So under positive recall the standard say's you or your supplier will fail.

This is one reason Juran called it the medicare standard.

The standard requires something, then say's you will fail. Most organizations do fail at some point for a various reasons. Management, Management, Management!!

:bigwave:

LMO said:

So under positive recall the standard say's you or your supplier will fail.

:bigwave:

Hi LMO,

Would you please be more specific on this point?

Thanks.

Paul N.

Just wondering if anyone has a current, concise definition for Positive Recall...

I did find these old threads:

Is Positive Recall applicable in ISO 9000:2000? (http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=3123)
Where did 4.10.2.3 - Positive Recall - At Risk - go? (http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6261)

...the component which is very much needed to the assembly line and it has not been inspected by quality people(supplier quality) say the component comes at 4.30 PM and it is very urgent for line then the component can be supplied to the assembly line using positive recall system meaning that the components will be assembled and the end products will not be shipped untill the component is checked by the receiving inspection and accepted. Saying that if that partiuclar lot of components is rejected (if found defective or rejected in receiving inspection)by the receiving inspection then all the end products will be quarantined...

I thought the original post might have just gotten the word wrong.

QUOTE: QS9000 Third Edition - 4.10.2.3 When product is released for urgent production purposes prior to verification, it shall be positively identified and recorded (see 4.16) in order to permit immediate recall and replacement in the event of nonconformity to specified requirements.

But then a post above referenced 4.10.3 and it says "hold product until the required inspection and tests have been completed or necessary reports have been received and verified, except when product is released under positive-recall procedures (see 4.10.2.3). Release under positive-recall procedures shall preclude the activities outlined in 4.10.3a."

An additional interesting thing is that the term has disappeared from QMS requirements (other than perhaps CSRs).

An additional interesting thing is that the term has disappeared from QMS requirements (other than perhaps CSRs).

Yep, but I think 9001-2000 section 8.2.4 still leaves room for the use of "positive recall"-type activities in the last sentence. And, reasonably so, IMO.

I would question the use of the word "positive" with recall. How would you make recall positive, as opposed to just being a recall. Is there a negative recall? Or is it the manner in which we approach a recall; with a positive or negative attitude.

I would question the use of the word "positive" with recall. How would you make recall positive, as opposed to just being a recall. Is there a negative recall? Or is it the manner in which we approach a recall; with a positive or negative attitude.

Would you be happier with "certain" or "assured" so no one would feel confused that there was such a thing as a "good" or "upbeat" recall? :tg:

I would question the use of the word "positive" with recall. How would you make recall positive, as opposed to just being a recall. Is there a negative recall? Or is it the manner in which we approach a recall; with a positive or negative attitude.

Although I didn't write the standard, I'm guessing they mean positive as in "fully assured" as in "positive that they're all recalled". Not as in "put a positive spin on it".

I would question the use of the word "positive" with recall. How would you make recall positive, as opposed to just being a recall. Is there a negative recall? Or is it the manner in which we approach a recall; with a positive or negative attitude.Could we be searching for the term "proactive recall" versus "reactive recall?"
Proactive = supplier recognizes issue before customers complain
Reactive = customers complain and supplier confirms, then implements recall.

From my QS and ISO 1994 days, I vaguely recall the term "positive recall" applied specifically to products when it was discovered that instruments used to inspect and approve product for shipment/distribution were found to be faulty and out of tolerance. Therefore, the process was
prophylactic [i.e. we aren't sure whether the product is faulty or not, but we better check to be on the safe side]
versus
corrective [we know there is a problem with the product and we want to prevent faulty products from causing other, more serious problems.]

There was NEVER any mention (to my memory) of "positively" recalling a product which met the original dimensional specs, but was found to fail in function due to a design flaw or unforeseen condition (environmental? abuse? etc.?)

As a customer, I'd sure want my supplier to give me a heads up about products which met design specs, but could fail anyway.

I would question the use of the word "positive" with recall. How would you make recall positive, as opposed to just being a recall. Is there a negative recall? Or is it the manner in which we approach a recall; with a positive or negative attitude.

I believe the "positive" in positive recall meant that the product was still under your direct control. If my memory is correct (not a common event), the positive is directed at I know posititively where all of that particular batch is.