Good afternoon Cove members, I am curious to hear where you have placed your process maps. I was initially going to make them part of the quality manual but decided that the less in there the better because everytime one is updated I will have to reissue the Qualtiy Manual. Then I thought I would place them seperately in with our controlled documents. Now I am thinking that am going to place them in our procedures maunal that way they are seperated for new revisions yet placed in a more appropriate place. It's late and it's Monday...I may be making an issue out of nothing but I thought if I had some different ideas on this issue, it may save me some time later.

Tracey :rolleyes:

Hey Tracey! It's never late around here...I've learned that some of the best advice comes when it's late, we're tired, and our brains are allowed to think outside of the box...that's why Happy Hour was invented!

But, getting to your question, we have a general process map shown in our Quality Manual. It's so basic and just shows the general flow of our main production processes.

We refer to all department based process maps within the Quality Manual, but maintain them outside of the Tier 1 document for the very reason you stated (makes the QMS bible too subject to change).

The software package that we use for document control, takes Process Maps into account and has developed a PCD acronym for our maps (Process Control Document), along with fields for Inputs, Outputs, Work Environment, Resources, etc.

Hope that helps!

Hi Tracey. We us a similar method for our process map. We have a high level map in the quality manual that gives an overview of everything.

We then maintain an electronic copy that has built in links for the more detailed maps. For example, out high level map has a block for the build portion of the process. If you click on that in the electronic version it will bring up a detailed map of the build process. Some of the maps have several levels depending on what process is being covered.

We kind of follow the same path or at least similar. There is a section of our QMS that we call data and reference sheets. They are not really work instructions, and not a "record" but more or less a quick reference or guide. All of our org charts, process maps, and "look ups" reside here. Our quality manual does have links to the the process interaction maps and org charts

Hi Tracey,

Just like RCBeyette we put only the process overview map in the Manual.

Most of our written procedures contain a process map these days. We do that for several reasons:

Parts of our staff find it easier to follow a process map than the written word.
A process map within the document allows us to put much less in writing.
If the document needs updating the map is updated at the same time.

If we find it hard to describe the process graphically, chances are that there is something wrong with either the process or it's description.

Now... This is our way of doing things... It suits us, and it may or may not suit you. Just make certain that you have thought it through before you start working on it....

/Claes

Well I could use happy hour right now :frust: I appreciate everyone's advice. Claes when you said you had a process map for each of your procedures I look at what I had and there is a process map for all created so far except for purchasing....I think I'll add one because I agree with you totally; they are easier for a lot of employees to follow and it make total sence that if we are having a hard time describing the process graphically, that something is wrong. It a great way to test it. Thanks.
:)

Please - what is a 'process map'? Same as flowchart? Different?

What is its purpose?

Thank you

Hi Claes,

Where is specifically do I put the Process Map. Can I place it under the Clause 4.1 Quality Management System, General Requirements? :confused: Sorry, If I speak too literal on where I could possibly put the Process Map. And besides, does the new standard requires a Process Map in the Quality Manual? :confused:


Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Raffy

Please - what is a 'process map'? Same as flowchart? Different?

What is its purpose?

Thank you

Hi htanaka, and welcome to the Cove :bigwave:

Yes, at least in my case it's a flowchart describing a process. Now we have to describe our processes (ISO9001:2000, clause 4.1). We do not have to do it graphically, but it's often most convenient to do so.

/Claes

Hi Claes,

Where is specifically do I put the Process Map. Can I place it under the Clause 4.1 Quality Management System, General Requirements? :confused: Sorry, If I speak too literal on where I could possibly put the Process Map. And besides, does the new standard requires a Process Map in the Quality Manual? :confused:


Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Raffy

Hi Raffy,

I have not numbered our manual acc to the std clauses, but yes: 4.1 would be the place to put it if you do.

ISO 9001 :2000, clause 4.2.2c does not require a process map in the manual, but it does require a description of the interaction between the processes of the quality management system. A process map is often the best way to do that.

/Claes

We have our process map under section 4.1, but that doesn't mean it has to be there. I've seen some manuals that have it in the beginning or introduction section along with the org chart. I'm sure you could put it at the end as an appendix. It's pretty much up to you to put it where you think it looks good.

We have a process map for each our main processes. They are in the QM in the section dealing with 4.1. I have kept them seperate so that they can be changed (improved) without having to change everything else. Getting ready to add a few more that we have seen we missed as a result of our auditing here. One result of auditing using the process approach.

Hi Tracy,

If you are using the process map to satisfy 4.2.2, interaction of processes, then it MUST be in the Quality Manual, as I learned to my dismay, in my upgrade audit 18 months ago.

I had it as a tier 2 because several divisions of the business I was in shared the quality manual, and there was no way to do something we could all share in the QM. Instead we pointed down to a tier two document we could each adapt to our individual locations.

The auditor said it had to be in the QM, so we came up with a very generic document and made it an appendix to the manual. It's not of any value, however. It's just there to satisfy an auditor. :bonk: I have yet to understand why it must be at the tier 1 level. I'm sure we're not the only company where the manual is shared by several locations.

Mine are hyperlinked from the Quality Manual.

Does that count ? or doesnt it ?

and who cares ??

In the QM, so the Customer can follow the flow.

Mine are hyperlinked from the Quality Manual.

Does that count ? or doesnt it ?

and who cares ??It depends on what you define as your quality manual. If you say that the linked document is part of the quality manual, then it counts.

Who cares? Internally, probably nobody cares if it's in the QM or a different document. Externally, I guess anybody you send your manual to who are trying to understand your system (customers, auditors, etc.).

It depends on what you define as your quality manual. If you say that the linked document is part of the quality manual, then it counts.

Who cares? Internally, probably nobody cares if it's in the QM or a different document. Externally, I guess anybody you send your manual to who are trying to understand your system (customers, auditors, etc.).

Yup...agree. I mean, the standard talks about identifying your processes, the sequences...blah blah blah...I don't have the ISO scripture memorized (in my lame attempt to have something of a social life outside of work), but my argument to our Registrar was that since the links were in the QM to the department level process maps, the standard had been met. Plus, the overal process map (that refers to the department level maps) is in the QM (Section 4.1, I might add).

Some QMs also have a Business Statement/Profile section. This might also be a nice place to put your overall map - and when you're developing 4.2, just refer back to the Business Statement.

My Customers really have no need to see department level process maps and besides, should our QM ever go electronic (on my Christmas list for Santa), I wouldn't want our top doc to be too detailed...nosy competitors and all that.

---X---The auditor said it had to be in the QM, so we came up with a very generic document and made it an appendix to the manual. It's not of any value, however. It's just there to satisfy an auditor. ---X---

Ours is clearly of value: To us. As a matter of fact, I use it every time a new employee walks into my room (they all do). I use it to explain what it is supposed to explain: The interaction of our processes... in one single page. :D

/Claes

Hi Claes,

Thank you very much.

Best regards,
Raffy

We went a totally different route with our "Quality Manual," since TS at least does not require the same KIND of "quality manual" we got used to with QS, we are making the sum of all our procedures, process maps, controlled documents, etc. our "Quality Manual" (rather than a QS-traditional, higher level Quality Manual that just spits back the standard). As such, our quality manual for TS is always going to be a living, breathing, changing BOOK full of documents.