Is your Registrar hurting for $$$$? Vote and tell Why you think so.

Before I reply, can you explain the question? Are you asking if the Registrars are hurting the same way the rest of the economy is or are you asking is they are hurting becuase people are dropping ISO Certification because they feel they don't need it anymore??

How about a third option?

NOT SURE.

Our registrar actually quoted us cheaper than last year for the same amount of days. Hurt for business so they lowered price? Competive shopping?

1994 vs 2000 and a new "sales rep" or what ever he is the only difference I know of in our case...

MHO is that registrars are just another commodity, in a flattening market, and they are certainly not immune to the economy. There is rarely, if ever, a return on the investment (except for the sole trump card----"....cant have business without the certificate....."---blah blah) so they are becoming aware that they need to compete, more than ever, for business. And, the low-cost producer, will get the best shot.
:p

Before I reply, can you explain the question? Are you asking if the Registrars are hurting the same way the rest of the economy is or are you asking is they are hurting becuase people are dropping ISO Certification because they feel they don't need it anymore?? It could be several or a combination economy, registration slack, six sigma,etc. If you think they are, why?

It could be several or a combination economy, registration slack, six sigma,etc. If you think they are, why?

JMHO- but I don't think they are. I know my time is in great demand for a couple that I do sub-contracting for. I have not heard of any that are getting killed. In fact I know there are quite a few that are having a hard time keeping up with the flood of 9K2K upgrade requests they will be/are seeing. That being said we have to remember they are like the rest of use and are not imune to the slumping economy.

I agree with ISO GUY - they are a business like everyone else. They have their ups and downs. If the market won't bear as many as there are, prices will drop and/or some will go under.

There are usually several that compete against each other in my area. My company probably encourages this, since we give our consulting clients feedback on registrars we've dealt with, give guidance on how to pick a good registrar and help to put them in contact with several registrars for quotes.

Are they hurting...dunno. But boy do they know how to make a Sales pitch or what?

Our company recently merged with 2 others, bringing us to 11 facilities in North America (3 here in Canada). 2 of the plants had a registered ISO 9002 programme (with different Registrars). Our plant in Manitoba attained ISO 9001 earlier this year. We just attained ours...that sound you hear is my big sigh of relief.

Anyway, the US plants think that us Canucks might be onto something here and are planning on going ISO 9001...hmm...if we jumped off a cliff...but I digress...

At our Transition Audit Closing Meeting, one of the Auditors had the audacity to actually start pitching his company to us...and as more than just a Registar. They smell money, and yes, while I admit that it would be finacially advantageous for our now much larger organization to have one Registrar, to say as much at OUR Closing Meeting is unprofessional and unwelcome. Make an offer after the meeting, fax/email me, but not there with a captive audience.

He talked about the Registar's coaching functions and ability to help the other facilities come online effectively. He promoted their Auditors as the best in North America (I would dispute that statement here, but that's another thread, I'm sure).

With that kind of pitch, I don't know if Registars are hurting for $$$, but goodness knows they're tenacious enough to look for it wherever they can.

More and more registrars are focusing on the more $ oriented business, like AS9100 where they can still get a premium price for audits.

Are they hurting...dunno. But boy do they know how to make a Sales pitch or what?

At our Transition Audit Closing Meeting, one of the Auditors had the audacity to actually start pitching his company to us...and as more than just a Registar. They smell money, and yes, while I admit that it would be finacially advantageous for our now much larger organization to have one Registrar, to say as much at OUR Closing Meeting is unprofessional and unwelcome. Make an offer after the meeting, fax/email me, but not there with a captive audience.

He talked about the Registar's coaching functions and ability to help the other facilities come online effectively. He promoted their Auditors as the best in North America (I would dispute that statement here, but that's another thread, I'm sure).

With that kind of pitch, I don't know if Registars are hurting for $$$, but goodness knows they're tenacious enough to look for it wherever they can.Makes one wonder about the commission structure that would induce a guy to make a sales pitch at such an inappropriate moment.

Taking the Deming thinking to a logical end - these auditors aren't making pitches like that unless (forcefully or subtly) they are condoned by their managers. This is NOT an aberration by an individual auditor, but a systemic process to garner business.

An audited company's response?
If I had been there and it was my company, I would have shut the guy down in a heartbeat with the comment,
"A sales pitch for your company's services is totally inappropriate at this time. Get back to the audit or leave!"

I would have also been on the phone to the home office immediately demanding ALL my money back if this character then had the gall to screw us with nonconformity findings as an act of revenge.

Auditors are contract employees, not gods. If they can be hired, they can be fired for cause or even on a whim. My advice is NEVER allow yourself or your organization to be bullied by an auditor. Be sure you know your facts going into an audit so you can challenge erroneous findings!

Auditors are contract employees, not gods.

Well, some of us are close. :bigwave:

Well, some of us are close. :bigwave:I see [I think] - that means you and all auditors sink up to your chin when you walk on water. I'm pretty sure this is the reason for the auditor mantra,
"Don't make waves! Don't make waves!":lmao:

More and more registrars are focusing on the more $ oriented business, like AS9100 where they can still get a premium price for audits.
Pardon my cynicism(and sarcasm), but I didn't think they were in business for altruistic reasons. I thought it was to make a buck. I always wondered what they did before 1987.

I see [I think] - that means you and all auditors sink up to your chin when you walk on water.

I'm usually up to my chin, but it ain't in water! :whip:

Makes one wonder about the commission structure that would induce a guy to make a sales pitch at such an inappropriate moment.

Because...here's the "logic" of the whole thing...he was in Sales for the Registrar and doing audits to attain his Lead Auditor accreditation. Guess it was difficult for him to remember which hat he was wearing at the time.

If I had been there and it was my company, I would have shut the guy down in a heartbeat with the comment,
A sales pitch for your company's services is totally inappropriate at this time. Get back to the audit or leave!"

I would have also been on the phone to the home office immediately demanding ALL my money back if this character then had the gall to screw us with nonconformity findings as an act of revenge.

Thankfully, the findings (such as they were) had already been reviewed and signed off, prior to the Closing Meeting. But, for what it's worth, when the Registrar contacted us for feedback...well...for the second time, I took the lines they gave me to right, used a ruler and drew two more lines in between....they're getting the hint that we won't put up with any more nonsense from Auditors. One of our half-sister plants (we have 50% stake in this company) just "fired" the Auditor from the Registrar...he is not allowed back on the property...

Have you voted? If not, Please take a minute and vote in this poll!

Contemporary comments and discussion invited!

I shall stay neutral on this one.

I shall stay neutral on this one.
That's a switch... :rolleyes:

They are a business. So, they have to make more profit every year to be considered successful. Add to that that they will likely have to pay employees and consultants at least a bit more each year for cost of living, etc...

However, in the 6 years that I have been dealing with registrars, I have seen numerous billing (getting bills for other clients), accounting (over and under charges), scheduling (classes- we are not considering audits here), and other issues that if cleaned up, would help them. A little cashflow management or, dare I say, improvement(?).

Actually, we have often wondered if the registrars managed to pay their employees regularly or if that gets messed up as well.

Actually, we have often wondered if the registrars managed to pay their employees regularly or if that gets messed up as well.

From my end, it is quite regular with no problems and very good.

MHO is that registrars are just another commodity, in a flattening market, and they are certainly not immune to the economy. There is rarely, if ever, a return on the investment (except for the sole trump card----"....cant have business without the certificate....."---blah blah) so they are becoming aware that they need to compete, more than ever, for business. And, the low-cost producer, will get the best shot.
:p

Actually, I saw a survey of certified companies a few years back where the aggregate consensus was a payback of 2.8 to 1. And, my consulting and auditing experience is that it is even hi9gher at the companies with good implementations. Sooo...if you are not seeing a payback, please go back and evaluate your system. You're leaving too much on the table.

Any chance you have a link to the survey?

Any chance you have a link to the survey?


No, I wish I had kept it. It was in one of the quality magazinesin the late ninety's.

Take a look at Quality Digest on the top of page 9