OK- Fellow Covers,

Here is my list of items we use in our PA program

EMPLOYEE SUGGESTION BOX - actually used
ENGINEERING CHANGE ORDERS - Employees fill out when they find a better way to do things, or a way to prevent a potential problem.
PROTOTYPE REVIEW - A documented checklist for any department to report any issues during the first run of a part.
PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE - equipment and calibration
CUSTOMER INPUT - they control design

Thoughts????

Pitfalls?????

Anything just plain stupid????????? (LOL)

Thanks all,
CarolX

Hi Carol,

This seems like a good topic. Ok, I see nothing wrong with what you have...

How about Process audits / reviews?

/Claes

Good list,
FMEA is also one of the basic tools as it talks about potential faults.
What about training?

I have seen some people claim that contract review is also PA

Claes-
Process audit I whoyuld have thought is not PA but rather Corrective as you deal with faults found.

Good list,

Claes-
Process audit I whoyuld have thought is not PA but rather Corrective as you deal with faults found.

Yes and no. I can agree to that, and perhaps I shouldn't have used the word audit, but in an audit you could just as easily deal with potential for improvement found (I know I do).

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. Let's call it process review then, aiming to find potential for improvement? That would also be a great opportunity to use FMEA.

/Claes

Good list,
FMEA is also one of the basic tools as it talks about potential faults.
What about training?

I have seen some people claim that contract review is also PA

Claes-
Process audit I whoyuld have thought is not PA but rather Corrective as you deal with faults found.

On the $$$, Howard. FMEA's have unequivocally been the most powerful tool I have ever used to unconver potential failures. Incredible when reps from all functions get together and shoot holes in the process. I say run with this one every chance you get and if anyone needs help putting one together, let me know. I use a myriad of tools that have helped in the efforts. :thedeal:

CX: Nothing at all on your list stupid, hun ! Good job ! You don't give yourself enough credit ! If you can drive the employee suggestion gig, you'll have a real winner. ;)

Claes / Howie: I think product audits / reviews can be used as PA. Though audits should be conducted per a guideline, it's gets you out in the process where everything is happening, and, a good auditor will look outside the guidelines for improvement opportunities.

Good thread, all. Have a day ! :bigwave:

I think we derailed this thread a bit with our discussion about suggestion systems. I split those posts to the separate thread Suggestions for Suggestion systems (http://www.elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6872)

I think both subjects were equally interesting and deserved a thread each. Please, proceed... :agree:

/Claes

We also use Inventory of supplies and spare parts as a preventive action tool.

How about the parts of ISO -

-As stated earlier, PM and Cal programs
-Doc Control
-Design Control (Design models more specifically including risk analysis tools as pointed out by Howard)
-Process Control
-Internal Quality Audits (audits of any kind, when not done as part of a corrective action or appraisal process, are preventive in nature and are included in Preventive Costs as a part of CoQ reporting)

I have used a similar approach in the past to capture the type of CO being processed as Carol does, and I have found this to be a good metric to report at Management Review. It is a great indicator of company culture (Detect and Correct/Predict and Prevent).

Good thread.

Kevin :bigwave:

OK- Fellow Covers,

Here is my list of items we use in our PA program

EMPLOYEE SUGGESTION BOX - actually used
ENGINEERING CHANGE ORDERS - Employees fill out when they find a better way to do things, or a way to prevent a potential problem.
PROTOTYPE REVIEW - A documented checklist for any department to report any issues during the first run of a part.
PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE - equipment and calibration
CUSTOMER INPUT - they control design

Thoughts????
Pitfalls?????

Thanks all,
CarolX



Glad to see that you are not one of those who thinks that "Preventive action" is a standalone process just because it's mentioned in the standard!

I reckon that “preventive action” is (should be) addressed in your processes for (eg) business planning, allocation of responsibilities, product design, process design, tendering for work, order processing, recruitment, appraisal, resource management and management review - in other words, a key element throughout your management system should be risk assessment and management (ie preventive action). ie "What could go wrong?" / "What do we need to do to ensure success?"

Regards

Peter Fraser

Glad to see that you are not one of those who thinks that "Preventive action" is a standalone process just because it's mentioned in the standard!

I reckon that “preventive action” is (should be) addressed in your processes for (eg) business planning, allocation of responsibilities, product design, process design, tendering for work, order processing, recruitment, appraisal, resource management and management review - in other words, a key element throughout your management system should be risk assessment and management (ie preventive action). ie "What could go wrong?" / "What do we need to do to ensure success?"

Regards

Peter Fraser
I guess that is one of the problems I have with the standard. The way I look at it, EVERYTHING we do is to assure we get the customer what they want, at the best price and on time. Things like contract review, IMHO, is a gimme....we do it anyways....just as most of the issues that fall under PA.

And what is PA anyway......no one goes into business to do it all WRONG...unless you got a million bucks to just toss away.

Just ranting,

CarolX

Here's my procedure and forms. Feedback welcome!!

Here's my procedure and forms. Feedback welcome!!


Cari,

Do you fill in a QI form if you have a CA? We use a CA form for Major NCs and a NC form for minors. It seems confusing having two forms but we find that Majors require the more detailed investigation and minor NCs result in a less formal investigation. For instance:
If we make a product and find it is out of Spec by a few percent we would raise a NC report to decide what we are going to do with the product and see if we can prevent it happening again (our production methods are not 100% infallible thats why we have checks) . However, if that same product arrived at the Customer and they complained we would raise a CA as we would want to know how it got past our checks and balances and prove to the customer that we have taken their complaint seriously. Is this how yours work??
As an aside, Do you have an alert facility (Notice or Flyer) to make CAs known to the whole company or department? I'm looking at doing something along these lines because I feel that once the CA investigation is under way the team and direct managemtnt of that team seem to be the only people that know about the CA and the results. Hope this makes sense.

P.S I like your attention to detail.

Greg B

Cari,

... Do you fill in a QI form if you have a CA? We use a CA form for Major NCs and a NC form for minors. It seems confusing having two forms but we find that Majors require the more detailed investigation and minor NCs result in a less formal investigation.

... Do you have an alert facility (Notice or Flyer) to make CAs known to the whole company or department? I'm looking at doing something along these lines because I feel that once the CA investigation is under way the team and direct managemtnt of that team seem to be the only people that know about the CA and the results.

Hi Greg - It's good to see you back, I'm glad to hear you're recovering nicely. :bigwave:

We do not classify QI's as major or minor. I tried to keep the form generic enough that the problem solving could be as complex/simple as the issue warrants. We do not initiate a QI for every occurance of internally identified nonconforming product, but I track defect types and operator numbers in our Nonconforming Product Log to spot recurring defects that may require a Corrective Action Request. Our nonconforming product "Red Tag" is very big and includes spaces for rework instructions and reinspection. We are a job shop full of skilled tradesmen (approx 50 guys on the floor) and in a bad month might generate 5-10 red tags, so this works for us.

As for customer rejections - we use their form unless they do not provide one for us, in which case we use our QI form. We warranty all of our products, so even the nonconforming product received for warranty work without a request for corrective action is documented and tracked so that we may initiate a QI internally... as a corrective action request if recurring defects are found... or as a preventive action if the fix can be systemically implemented to prevent like defects in other jobs.

On the second question - we do not currently have an alert thing. But, with the emphasis on objectives during our 9k2k transition - I'm thinking about a central display case similar to the one by our timeclock that the Office Manager maintains with the shop memos, OSHA and RTK stuff, etc. I'd like to display some of our measurables, RcB sent me a good example of a visual display she uses. I was thinking that this is the place that I would start posting any QI's that we think all employees should be aware of as they relate to their jobs and/or specific objectives they are contributing towards. I haven't quite worked it all out yet, except that the wall right next to the bathrooms and eyewash station is big and empty enough.

In the past when I worked in large production environments with hundreds of employees and multiple shifts, I was impressed with one past company's "Quality Alert". This was a document that described any defect with any product line. The Quality Alert included a sketch or picture attached of the defect. They used to keep all of the operator instructions, inspection instructions and Quality Alerts in a packet with the tooling (I'm talking metal stamping). When the tool was pulled from the cage to set up in the press - the packet came with. It was my job as an inspector to verify that the instructions were the current revision and hanging at the work station - usually on a hook on the side of the press in shop ticket holders. If any Quality Alerts were in the packet - I hung them along side the instructions when I First Piece Approved the set up. This worked great for product nonconformances in a production environment.

I am the queen of run-on sentences, hope I explained clearly in spite of it. :vfunny: