EMPLOYEE SUGGESTION BOX - actually used
Carol can you share how you got people to use the box? We technically have a "box" as well as Continuous Improvovement Suggestion Forms (we place suggestions under the CI umbrella which could include anything).

We happen to be very low in numbers (employees) at the moment, and most of them have been here many years, and have seen very few of their past suggestions "come to life". I'm currently running "Encouragement" drawings monthly where every (realistic) suggestion is given one "ticket" in the drawing for a small $$ amount. We don't get very many, but some people feel they are NOT PAID TO THINK, just make parts... *shrug* *sigh*

We don't get very many, but some people feel they are NOT PAID TO THINK, just make parts... *shrug* *sigh*
Hi Bob,

OK... That's the symptom. What about the cause(s)?

The fact that few of their suggestions in the past have "come to life" must be considered. Most people in that situation reacts in exactly the same way: They sulk, and quit making suggestions.

Now, the important question: Why have their suggestions been stillborn? I can think of several potential reasons, but I would like to get your opinion before we continue. What do you think?

And Carol: Could you enlighten us: What made your suggestion box work?

/Claes

Hi Bob,
OK... That's the symptom. What about the cause(s)?
The fact that few of their suggestions in the past have "come to life" must be considered. Most people in that situation reacts in exactly the same way: They sulk, and quit making suggestions.
Now, the important question: Why have their suggestions been stillborn? I can think of several potential reasons, but I would like to get your opinion before we continue. What do you think?
And Carol: Could you enlighten us: What made your suggestion box work?
/Claes
PAST causes/problems were lack of $$, downsizing, unrealistic suggestions, suggestions submitted in an "angry" way not in a postive way, management may not really have been interested in opinions just wanted CI suggestions history for ISO 1994?, realistically some people had trouble seperating "bitching about a problem" from making a "good" suggestion.

Our past $$ problems, downsizing, and reduction of certain benifits has left alot of the old timers bitter. Thats not something that is easy to fix. Empowerment doesnot always work. *shrug*

Basically I'm left with alot of attitute. Thankfully the attitude towards quality has improved with a system in place for a few years now. :D

Not trying to steal Carol's limelight...just my own observations

The first division I worked for had a suggestion box. They got all the employees (by shift/area)together twice a year, bought them dinner, plied them with booze and then the managers pulled out all the suggestions and made fun of the suggestions and the people who submitted them.

The second division started a suggestion box after I started there (needless to say, it scared the #&!! out of me :eek: ) But, the management there was very progressive. Each month at one of our staff/quality meetings, we read all the suggestions, figured out if they were something we COULD look into, assigned a champion from management staff and went to work on them. Occasionally we would get some lame stuff, but we made sure that one of us followed up on EVERY suggestion, even if it was to go back to the person and explain why we were not going to act, or possibly why we were going to wait. One of the suggestions was to build a patio and furnish it with a picnic table. It came in the midst of a bad downswing and my original thought was, yeah, like that's gonna happen. The managers met with the office staff and told them that if they could reduce the amount of money they spent on office stuff, through implementation of paperless processes and better supplier control, etc., by a certain amount in six months, and then sustain their cost cuts, they could have a patio and picnic bench.

The patio was built, and the patio furniture bought, the company did not even cheap out, got really nice stuff. Moral went way up and soon emplyees were coming up with even more suggestions, not for "gimmes" but for real efficiency/effectiveness improvements.

Guess it just goes to show how far a little respect goes. Treat your employees suggestions like they are stupid, the program dies. Treat your employees suggestions as though they all have merit, people start to make really great business improvements.

Not trying to steal Carol's limelight...just my own observations



Steel,
Don't worry, you never could....we each shine in our own way!!!!

To the group,

First, I must say that I had NO part in the employee suggestion box. This was a program that upper management set-up years ago, and they still use it to this day. Sometimes it takes a few weeks for them to get around to it, but it is used by all. I have always said that we have a suggestion program that actually works, but that is because upper management uses it as an improvement tool.

Thanks all for your feedback...as always...you guys and gals are the best!!!!

CarolX

Here's somes things to think about regarding suggestion programs:

1) At our company, the CEO/president established a "suggestion program" here and labeled it "Continuous Improvement". The expectations are that CI is everyone's responsibility. The Management Team walks around the plant once per month at predetermined times to here a 5-minute from every group or area in the plant (one month they hit the production areas, the opposite month they hit the "office" areas). Participation is nearly 100% and last year we had an average of 3 suggestions "accepted" per associate. These are not trivial ideas, each idea has to be reviewed by each group's members in order to be accepted. (Groups don't want to show a list of trivial improvements or changes to Mgmt.) Bottom line: The key to success to this whole program is that Mgmt comes around once per month listening to a summary (with metrics of # ideas accepted and implemented) and to listen to a short story of how a recently implemented idea has helped the area. There's usually a few questions asked after each little presentation. No incentives or rewards are given to individuals per se. However, to increase awareness of what all other groups have accomplished, we have recently instituted a program where every 6 months, each group assembles a short story board about their best implemented idea, and we vote on the best idea for quality/customer satisfaction, safety, and cost reduction. The group with the top vote getting idea in each category wins a pizza lunch.

2) Organizations using incentives or rewards to get people to participate in such CI programs seems to go against Deming's philosophies on continuous improvement and psychology. Anyone have some other thoughts about this?

Tom

2) Organizations using incentives or rewards to get people to participate in such CI programs seems to go against Deming's philosophies on continuous improvement and psychology. Anyone have some other thoughts about this?

Tom


Tom:

I would be wary of the vote being seen as just a popularity contest. Does the same area seem to win more often than the others?

I kind of like Crosby's ZD Day approach that we have molded to fit us. Every 1 1/2 years or so, we have a big dinner (steak last time) and all employees and their spouses are invited. Our President speaks for a few minutes, and the QA Manager (me) gets to put everyone to sleep after they have eaten a big dinner. These speeches are about where the company has been and where its going. Oh, and I throw lots of quality stuff in, as well. We also have a drawing for door prizes, which is very popular.

If your company is too big, why not rotate the groups for lunch, and make sure a senior manager or 6 are there to share the pizza and spend some casual time with the troops?

Of course if what you have now is working for you, fantastic!

Craig

Here's somes things to think about regarding suggestion programs:

2) Organizations using incentives or rewards to get people to participate in such CI programs seems to go against Deming's philosophies on continuous improvement and psychology. Anyone have some other thoughts about this?

Tom

Tom, I think that to limit our thinking to following one man's philosophies and only those is self limiting. We all have our "price", some of us come cheaper than others.:p

One thing that I did at my last job to revive a stagnant Employee Suggestion program was to involve shop personnel first hand. I had to sell it to my boss - but I convinced him to let me take over the Employee Suggestion Committee (such as it was) and revamp it. The first thing I did was ask for volunteers from a Supervisory Level.

I headed the Committee and my boss also sat in whenever he could. Then there were two permanent members that were Department Supervisors, representing mid-management. Then the other two members were randomly chosen shop guys, different guys each month.

We went through every suggestion - got rid of the "Fire so and so's" and others that were obviously not valid/serious. Then we reviewed the valid ones. Having the shop guys in on the review meant that they could see first hand that each and every suggestion was indeed given consideration. They told their buddies - and after a few months I was inundated with requests/volunteers for the reviews. I considered taking volunteers, then I decided to stick with the random choosing instead.

Whether the suggestion was implemented or not - each submission was given a written response unless they chose to remain anonymous.

Basically I'm left with alot of attitute. Thankfully the attitude towards quality has improved with a system in place for a few years now. :D

As you must have realized, I had good reason for asking: Our situation is similar to yours, and I feel that we are miles away from exploiting our suggestions system to it's full potential. It's not a bad system as systems go, but we could get a lot more out of it. I wanted hints.

So, did I get hints? Of course I did! You Covers never let me down... :agree: Good posts from all over the place and I particularly liked Steels tale. That's the way to get cooperation.

/Claes

Tom:

I would be wary of the vote being seen as just a popularity contest. Does the same area seem to win more often than the others?



Craig-

We have just done the "recognition" exercise twice, and there doesn't appear to be any trends so far, but data is limited.

Tom

Tom, I think that to limit our thinking to following one man's philosophies and only those is self limiting. We all have our "price", some of us come cheaper than others.:p

Steel-

I can understand your logic, so I agree that one shouldn't just accept a philosophy without scrutiny, which is why I inquired to see if someone has some specific opposing thoughts to not giving tanglible or monetary rewards that I have overlooked.

Having said that, I have done some study of Dr. Deming's work and while I certainly don't claim to be an expert on all of his work, and disagree with a few of his philosophical elements, I do believe that his work has stood a test of time and the results to stand by, and thus consider his work very valid and noteworth. As with most of Deming's philosophies, I happen to agree with his point on not tangibly "rewarding" with gifts or money for an effort one should want to do ("Deming's joy of work"). But I have also heard the grumblings of some floor associates complaining that an expectation to participate in our "suggestion box" program goes above and beyond their job "to make parts" and that "we aren't paid to do that".

As a side note, we were recently rated by the Financial Insurance group as one of the top 10 companies for employee compensation, but data also shows that our manufacturing labor rates are aveage for the area. Where we make up for this is in a moderately (not great) good medical/dental benefits, a highly successful profit sharing program (avg. 10-25% annual salary), and stock ownership by all employees. IMO what the average floor associate doesn't see are the dollars beyond their base labor rate. So given all of that should one complain that participation in such a suggestion program not part of their job? My sense is no, but I also think that there may be something else (probably in our intangible system) that is making them feel this way.

Tom

I happen to agree with his point on not tangibly "rewarding" with gifts or money for an effort one should want to do ("Deming's joy of work").
A lot of management feels this way. I don't however, not across the board anyway. In the military we weren't rewarded with money and some of us didn't care about the medals (gifts), but overall we were very proud of our jobs and just the recognition of a "job well done" was enough. The pride in performance is something that is instilled but the recognition is managements responsibility.
In the work place today, you don't always have the ability to award someone for a doing a good job (union contracts, cost restrictions, etc.) however, recognition can be very cheap. You would be surprised how far a nice pen or key chain can go.
If you're not recognized for doing well and are getting the same pay as the guy next to you, who misses 1 day ever other week. Why bother?
You may have heard of this analogy before. Stand on a chair, now what is easier? For me to pull you down, or for you to pull me up on the chair? A majority of the time it's easier for me to pull you down to my level. Same in performance, it's much easier to drag someone down to mediocracy than to pull their performance up.
There are 5 different levels of motivation, we are discussing these in the SoPK thread. This is a big key to management to understand motivation is a big, big tool. :agree:

But I have also heard the grumblings of some floor associates complaining that an expectation to participate in our "suggestion box" program goes above and beyond their job "to make parts" and that "we aren't paid to do that".
...... So given all of that should one complain that participation in such a suggestion program not part of their job? My sense is no, but I also think that there may be something else (probably in our intangible system) that is making them feel this way.

Tom

Tom, you are absolutely correct, it is every employees obligation to participate...By rewards, I meant that the rewards should be the granting of the solutions/suggestions brought up by the employee. I would never suggest that each employee putting a suggestion in the box to get a $25 gift certificate from Wally World, but hey if some froup wants an outside area to eat their lunch in the sun, why not make them accountable for its realization by saying you get to this point and we will look into it? I do it with my kids all the time. It's easier then beating them and it's legal.:vfunny:

..... but hey if some froup wants an outside area to eat their lunch in the sun, why not make them accountable for its realization by saying you get to this point and we will look into it? I do it with my kids all the time. It's easier then beating them and it's legal.:vfunny:

Maiden-

I hear what you are saying, as I too have used monitary and privledge "rewards" to enhance my kids' performance. However, according to Deming, this is the worst thing we can do as parents as it "steals the joy of learning and growing, etc." But, I have to say from a parent/child perspective this sounds almost utopian. Can such a state where honest praising is given appropriately for "meeting the call of duty or doing good things above and beyond the call of duty" be enough to motivate and satisfy a child? for a manufacturing associate? I want to believe it, but I'd like to see it in action with real life examples.

Sorry for the divergence.

Tom

I think we derailed Carols question in the thread Thoughts on Preventive Action (PA) (http://www.elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6857) , so I split the suggestion system discussion to this separate thread.

Please continue, this discussion is great. :agree:

/Claes

Maiden-

I hear what you are saying, as I too have used monitary and privledge "rewards" to enhance my kids' performance. However, according to Deming, this is the worst thing we can do as parents as it "steals the joy of learning and growing, etc." But, I have to say from a parent/child perspective this sounds almost utopian. Can such a state where honest praising is given appropriately for "meeting the call of duty or doing good things above and beyond the call of duty" be enough to motivate and satisfy a child? for a manufacturing associate? I want to believe it, but I'd like to see it in action with real life examples.

Sorry for the divergence.

Tom

Ahhhh, yes, and this is where I come to the fork in the road with philosophy, philosophers, and other assorted mental giants. I agree that all men (and women) are created equal; unfortunately some are more equal than others. Until we reach the state of nirvana, utopia, heaven, whatever you want to believe in, we are individuals with individual needs.

My needs at this point in my life are a whole lot different than they were 20 years ago. Then I needed a roof over my head and a good bottle of vodka. Now I need a roof over my children's head and a good bottle of antidepresants. :vfunny: (just jokin about the antidepresants)

My needs now tend to run to the 'give me a good atta boy, and I'll be happy". But the fact remains, even if you don't give children (employees, friends, whatever) something.....even if it is praise, you won't be able to sustain neverending improvement. "Learning for the joy of learning" is just pure bs in my estimation. We are not saints, we are flesh and blood people.

Yes, I do a lot of learning, I love to learn about stuff and on the surface it appears that I continue to learn for the joy of learning. But, I continue to learn for certain reasons. To keep my mind sharp, to be able to communicate with friends and coworkers, to keep up with my kids. There IS a reward involved, esteem of my peers, self esteem, maybe even some public recognition if I get really good at something and can share my knowledge in public ways.

So, IMHO, anyone who says that we should perform just for performance sake (no matter what the task is, job, daily life, learning) is deluding themselves, they at least want some sort of recognition and recognition is itself, a reward. Mr. Deming was a very smart man, but it looks to me that he did not follow the investigation to its conclusion. No matter what, if you want things done, you need to provide some reward. And like I said earlier, we all have our price, some of us are just cheaper than others.

Anyway, Tom, thanks for carrying on this discussion, I don't often get involved with the philosophical debates at the Cove, my nature is much less philosophical then many of our esteemed colleagues.

my nature is much less philosophical

That may be so but IMO you did a great job on this subject. Most issues with life in general is/are philosophical. Simple life style, Complex life style, materialistic life style all based on a persons philosophy.

This is an area where management can do a lot of good or a great deal of harm. The situation for reward/recognition can vary from person to person and it may not be the same for each incident.

As much as I appreciate Demings view of process improvement and his philosophy of manufacturing, I don't think he really understood the human element as well as he did other areas. Dealing with the person is the biggest conplaint/disagreement that I have with his system.

So, IMHO, anyone who says that we should perform just for performance sake (no matter what the task is, job, daily life, learning) is deluding themselves, they at least want some sort of recognition and recognition is itself, a reward.

Quite true Steel,

I sometimes have people telling me that they don't care, but seldom more than once. I flatly refuse to believe them, and once we get down to discussing why they make that claim we invariably reach some reason behind it.

/Claes

As much as I appreciate Demings view of process improvement and his philosophy of manufacturing, I don't think he really understood the human element as well as he did other areas.

Exactly! (but see how easily you came up with the phraseology...me, I've got to work at it:vfunny:) If the only tool you've been given is a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail! I've spent a fair amount of time with people who study or have a degree in philosophy. They can wear me down in an argument everytime, but most of them can't tie their shoes the same way twice, let alone drop kick a mugger in the parking lot or shoot, clean and cook their supper to save themselves from starving! (I crack myself up sometimes):biglaugh:

They've never read "Zen and art of Motorcycle Maintenance" either!
I crack myself up sometimes
Well add me in there too.

They've never read "Zen and art of Motorcycle Maintenance" either!

I was just mentioning this book to a friend this weekend, and my wife made fun of me for being such a geek. She is definitely one of those individuals that has trouble with new technology (she still says that she wants her "simple clock with hands" - analog alarm clock, and as of yet I haven't been able to get past "Why should I learn to use a computer when I have a perfectly good typewriter?" :rolleyes: ).

One of these days I hope to persuade her into reading that book. ;)

They've never read "Zen and art of Motorcycle Maintenance" either!

I haven't but it is on my list of books to get to sometime, I guess I will start actively looking for it when I am out and about. The title is intriguing to me, I used to ride prior to shattering my knee.Whenever I hear the name of the book it brings back memories of sitting by the edge of the hiway figuring out how to cobble together some makeshift way to get to the next town big enough to have a motorcycle shop, and all the wierd cosmic stuff that could go through your mind. It was sort of a zen-like experience.

it brings back memories of sitting by the edge of the hiway figuring out how to cobble together some makeshift way to get to the next town big enough to have a motorcycle shop, and all the wierd cosmic stuff that could go through your mind. It was sort of a zen-like experience.
Are you sure that wasn't from too much car exhaust? :biglaugh:

Are you sure that wasn't from too much car exhaust? :biglaugh:

I plead the fifth:biglaugh: