I saw the following and I couldn't help but post this. I was just with a client in New York and this came up. I told them that I have worked with some registrars that require employees to word-for-word read the quality policy and several that didn't require a word-for-word. I have seen the question "What does the quality policy mean to you?" asked.

Folks - what have you all seen??

--------snippo------

From: "Thompson, Robert" <Robert.Thompson@viasystems.com>
Subject: Q: Quality Policy /Thompson

We have recently been audited and the consultant asked personnel if they could repeat the company quality policy, a document which is 3/4 of a page long. When people could not recite this I argued that he was testing memory and not understanding of its philosophy. He did not agree. I went onto state that each of our system procedures is directly traceable back to the quality policy and surely by auditing the procedures, analysing the audit results and making any system changes/improvements the real test of understanding of the policy would be gained? Again he did not agree.

Am I being reasonable?

Robert

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 01-24-99).]

From: Paul Palmes <paulp@northernpipe.com>
Subject: RE: Quality Policy /Thompson/Palmes

Robert,

You are being quite reasonable. At a previous company, where we also had a 1 page Quality Policy, the auditor recognized that no one was about to recite the whole thing! Instead, he simply asked certain employees what the Quality Policy meant to them. He got a whole range of answers, but the underlying themes were in keeping with the policy and he was therefore quite happy with the responses.

Good luck!

Paul

Most of the 'opinions' I have seen read along these lines:

------snippo-----

Subject: RE: Quality Policy

The standard requires that the quality policy be "understood, implemented, and maintained". I can't find anywhere that states is must be memorized. Once again we have an example of an auditor making the profession look bad.

It is perfectly acceptable for an auditor to ask "what is your quality policy". An acceptable response would be to show the auditor a written copy or even to read it to them.

Given the above scenario, as an auditor I would then ask your personnel to tell me in their own words what the quality policy means to them (test their UNDERSTANDING not their memorization). If the meaning was clear, even if the words were different, then I would be satisfied.

I would challenge this if I was in your shoes.

Shawn Mewborn, CQA, Provisional Lead Auditor

------snippo------

Subject: RE: Quality Policy

Robert,

I've run into this with auditors before, and based on my experience I'm going to take a "middle of the road" response - both you and the auditor have a point.

The standard does require the supplier to ensure that the quality policy is "understood, implemented and maintained at all levels of the organization"(4.1.1). This does NOT require all of your employees to memorize a 3/4 page policy. However, they should be aware of it and able to paraphrase, or give an interpretation as it applies to their particular job. Inferred awareness through knowledge of procedures is NOT sufficient. Otherwise why have the requirement? Any registered company could claim that their employees understand their quality policy because they've been trained to their procedures. Doesn't quite hit the mark.

Now, how we handled this in my facility was to come up with a "short version" of our Quality Policy that is a five-word sentence. This is posted on the bulletin board of every department, and last year we started adding it onto timeclock/ID badges. If an auditor asks if they know their company quality policy they can either point to the bulletin board, or if they have a newer badge, they can point to it on their badge. They can then tell the auditor what it means to them and how they perform their job. This has satisfied every assessment auditor I've had.

My 2 cents, a penny each for you and the auditor.

Melissa McCowen
ISO Coordinator
GE Ind. Systems MDC

Given the above scenario, as an auditor I would then ask your personnel to tell me in their own words what the quality policy means to them (test their UNDERSTANDING not their memorization). If the meaning was clear, even if the words were different, then I would be satisfied.

I have always taken this approach. The policy must be understood. If an employee can show he understands the concept or intent, that should be fine. The idea of ‘their own words’ is probably most acceptable.

Regards,
Don

My favorite trick is to have a contest....prize being 'premo parking for a month' or what ever the company wants to offer up...Write a slogan, phrase, ditty etc on what the QP means ...bring it home. post the winning entry.....have pens made and pass them out, everyone sign it...hang in lobby. Then the day before the audit, at the 'rally' meeting pass them out again and explain that all they need to do is point to the pen !!!! TA DA....never misses

some companies even put the slogan in the footer of all the documents.


Best story was when the auditor asked the prize winner the Qp question !!! he got an earful and didn't ask anyone else

I don't think I could recite the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States of America, but I think I could give you the gist of it. Does this mean that I am not a citizen (a good one anyway)? Yet I can remember readings from conversational spanish from the 8th grade. I can say them pretty well, but I couldn't tell you what I was saying. I believe you need to understand the essence of a topic (Quality Policy), and so I put very little stock into memorization (total memorization). More important to know the key words or phrases and relate them to the program or the system. Back to the group...

It is interesting that this came up. We have had several auditors (same company), and each auditor handles the QP slightly different.

Our first auditor asked what the Quality Policy was - if someone could recite it word for word, he pretty much left them alone. (He didn't want someone to read it though - he "wasn't testing their reading ability".) If someone tried to state what it meant, he grilled them for about 5 minutes until he was satisfied that they understood it.

Our second auditor asked what the Quality Policy meant - if someone tried to read it off a posting or recite it word for word, he stated that he didn't want to know if they could read or memorize, he wanted to know if they knew what it meant and how it applied to their job.

I now instruct our people to know it both ways - word for word and to be able to parapharase what it means and how it applies to their job. This way they won't be caught off guard, what ever response the auditor is looking for.

We have had several auditors (same company), and each auditor handles the QP slightly different.

Perhaps the training program should be looked into. For example, see:
http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000013.html
if someone could recite it word for word

The standard states:

The supplier shall ensure that this policy is understood, implemented and maintained at all levels of the organization.

I believe the key word here is ‘understood’. I do not believe that the employees must be able to recite the policy, nor should they know it word for word. As my assessor put it:

...know the intent and be able to point it out if “needed.

I now instruct our people to know it both ways - word for word and to be able to paraphrase what it means and how it applies to their job.

That is fine, but not required. As stated before, the policy must be “understood, implemented and maintained.” I would not require my employees to memorize it word fro word nor would I require they be able to sign it as a statement of understanding. I suggest this:

When an assessor asks about the policy, the employee should be able to explain its intent and how it applies to their function. If additional details are requested from the assessor, the guide should step in and request why!

Just thoughts.

Regards,
Don

[This message has been edited by Don Winton (edited 02-13-99).]

Realism Around The World: 101

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Subject: Quality Policy
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 04:23:20 PST
From: "Mahesh Kumar Ghai" <ghaimk@hotmail.com>
To: cheech@qs9000.com

Here in India, we have another problem, we have many states and ach state has its own language and script. Therefore, what I have done so far is to translate the QP into vernacular. Now every time you translate the translation is not conveying the meaning conveyed by English language QP. I have to ask the employees to try and remember it verbatim, more so at shopfloor level, where literacy rate is practically nil. for this I have had Bible periods before lunch break every day prior to third party audit. I had displayed QP in vernacular all over the place and in BIG FONTS so that a chap could read it without glasses from a distance of 7 to 9 feet. Further I made pocket cards with QP on it. All were told that if questioned about QP, they should look at the board and read it aloud or take out their card and read it out to Auditor. Well, one thing was definite outcome, the auditor never asked a shopfloor operator as to What QP meant to him.

Otherwise this question of what QP means to each person in the company can be very confusing, it is like" LOVE means different things to different people".

Regards

Ghai

--------snippo------

An interesting FYI:

Languages -->

Paupa New Guinea - 817 languages
Indonesia - 712
Nigeria - 470
India - 407
Mexico - 289
Cameroon - 279
Australia - 234
Congo - 221
China - 205

Ethnologe: Languages of the World, 13th Edition (1996)

NOTE: You can now easily figure out:

population/# of languages

for a diversity indicator.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 02-24-99).]

Sorta gives an entirely new twist to "The supplier shall ensure that this policy is understood, implemented and maintained at all levels of the organization" don't it.

Regards,
Don

This is one of those "You think YOU have problems" situations as well as food for reality thought.

The ISO / QS 'quality policy' thing still sticks in my throat as kinda idealistic nonsense.

The ISO / QS 'quality policy' thing still sticks in my throat as kinda idealistic nonsense.

Yea, I agree. I believe that was something that falls under the "seemed like a good idea at the time" category. Perhaps if more followed Ford's "Quality is Job 1" type of policy, things would be simpler.

Mine: "Give the customer what they expect when they expect it, on time every time."

Thoughts, anyone?

Regards,
Don

[This message has been edited by Don Winton (edited 02-27-99).]

Los Angeles, CA USA - 83 Languages

Anyone have any other counts?

Don, Marc,
Asking people to recite or explain the policy, especially at operator level, is likely to cost us.
People are not stupid. They know when they are being patronised or just fed with the latest crock of crap and they will quickly come to see that being coached to recite for someone who comes in twice per year, is just that. They might go along with the ISO hype for a while, but the end result is likely to be that ISO 9000 is seen to be a joke and evidence that management is not in touch with the reality of day to day business.
Our task is to present ISO 9000 or documented system as something useful at all levels. We need to be very wary of anything that shakes our credibility. No consultant is worth that.
rgds, John C

…fed with the latest crock of crap and they will quickly come to see that being coached to recite for someone who comes in twice per year, is just that.

I agree. I believe the best way to ensure the quality policy is ‘…understood, implemented and maintained…’ is to make it a part of the organization’s culture. That takes commitment at all levels, but especially from the top.

Having a policy of ‘Quality is Job 1’ or other such rubbish without it being practiced is waste. It serves no purpose to ‘preach’ it without ‘practicing’ it. The policy should be a part of the culture, every hour, every day. How do we do that? It takes work (a lot), time (a lot) and commitment (continuous) from the organization. I have never been an advocate of the ‘recite’ myth, nor do I present it that way to the organization. I tell them up front the requirements and ask THEM how they plan on ensuring it is ‘…understood, implemented and maintained…’. Answers usually vary, but rare is the response that attempts to make it a part of organization culture, sadly.

Our task is to present ISO 9000 or documented system as something useful at all levels.

I agree in part. I prefer to present ISO 900x as a component, a ‘foundation’ of a more systems based management method rather than a solution. Seeing ISO 900x as a panacea for organizational ills is very short-sighted indeed.

Regards,
Don

> From: Walter Malmborg <wmalmborg@BrownIntl.com>
> Subject: Q: Mission Statement vs. Quality Policy/Malmborg
>
> I am looking for material on the difference between a mission statement and
> a quality policy. To me these are distinct items.

From: Charley Scalies <scalies@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Q: Mission Statement vs. Quality Policy/Malmborg/Scalies

Here is my paradigm, for whatever it's worth. A Vision Statement says what you want the business to be.

A Mission Statement is more action oriented. It says what the business has to do to become what it wants to be.

A Quality Policy is the mission statement for the quality system: it says what the quality system is expected to do. e.g. "We are committed to maintaining an effective quality system that will enable us to consistently meet customer requirements."

My recommendation is to try to have the mission statement say what it needs to say about quality, rather than get into battles over definitions. If "they" want to continue calling it a mission statement..... "A rose by any other name..."

Charley

no where does it say that the quality policy has to be called a quality policy, it can be called "rest room wallpaper" as long as the QA manual points to it, and everyone is aware of it....and so on...BTW as an aside...always post a copy in the restroom, that will ensure it is read...I have a story to go along with that....

A company wanted to have a contest for a slogan to represent the rather legnthy "QP"...and posted several stations around the plant with a copy of the policy, and entry forms etc.... For fun we color coded the entry forms to see where most would come from (an inside bet we had going)...AND guess where 93% of the entries came from....YUP the rest rooms.

My present employer is having an initial registration audit for 9002 in August. The executive management QP is "get by with what you can when you can"

We have signs with our QP hanging throughout the facility. It is also in our Manuals. We have business cards with the QP on them.

Our auditors have always expected employees to "know where to find it" (a.k.a. be able to read it) and additionally, explain what it means to them.

We have never had a problem.

Our motto typically meets the intent of the "Stated QP." It is quite similar to one of the responses above and all people understand that it is what we truly strive to do. A wealth of personnel will answer it the same/similar way...

"Give the customer and each other what they expect each and every time. Additionally, always strive to come up with ideas and suggestions that will enable us to EXCEED their expectations whenever possible." It is not just "regurgitated crap" to prepare for an audit, we try to live it. This is what we want it to mean for everyone and we work on this as a matter of course.

We support this with such initiatives as a "Suggestion Box Program" and the regular use of what we call "Customer Focus Groups" as two examples.

Now, if only we could BE that perfect...

ALM

Short but sweet policy,

People Striving To Turn Customers Into Fans

ASD...

------------------
Al Dyer
Mngt. Rep.
ullysses3@excite.com

Originally posted by Al Dyer:

People Striving To Turn Customers Into FansGood words.

I do need to say that this policy was a group decision made between owners, management, and all employees.

ASD...

------------------
Al Dyer
Mngt. Rep.
ullysses3@excite.com

I think we will seeing more emphasis on the role of the Quality Policy in the organization. At a recent ISO 9002 audit the third party auditor was inquiring of individuals if they understood the Quality Policy and how it impacted their own work. He also wanted to see Quality Objectives that supported the policy and metrics reviewed during Management Review that determined if the organization was infact meeting the Quality Policy and Objectives.

> At a recent ISO 9002 audit the third party auditor was inquiring of
> individuals if they understood the Quality Policy and how it impacted their
> own work. He also wanted to see Quality Objectives that supported the policy
> and metrics reviewed during Management Review that determined if the
> organization was infact meeting the Quality Policy and Objectives.

I've seen this as 'standard' for a while now. Recently I saw one I've never seen before. The auditor was asking line personnel if they believed upper management actually supported the quality policy and to give examples f how they did so. No big deal, just never heard that asked of line personnel before.

Our auditor always asks the same 3 questions of on-floor operators

1 Do you know if the company has a Q policy
2 Where can I find one
3 What does it mean to you

We printed our Q policy on cards that each person has in his posession and post it on time-clocks - bulletin boards etc. That way the first two are easy...

But on the last 3 audit occcasions the "improvement suggestion" has been made that we simply change our quality policy and make it read what any Q policy would "mean to our employees"

"Provide quality parts to customers on time"

Regards
Jim

Our auditor always asks three questions as well:
What is your Quality Policy?
What are your objetives?
What is the single most important thing you can do as an employee to ensure the policy and objectives are complied with? Follow policies and procedures.

We received an observation during the last audit because about 5 personnel could not paraphrase the policy or objectives. My boss refuses to address this issue because he believes employees should be able to review their cards with this information on them. Our auditor asks employees not to look at their cards. However, I believe the observation was justified because a couple of the employees did not even know we had a quality policy or a card with this information.

I would be interested in any other ideas on educating the masses on quality policy and objectives.

Thanks

I agree being "overpreped never really hurts"

But often wonder why auditors practice injecting (on purpose) "conflicting opinions". If you don't have the cards they would say you needed them.. If you do have cards they are uninterested in letting employees use them.

The same auditor that tells me my Q policy
is not a marketing tool - praises the "best" quality policy he's ever heard "We will sell no wine before it's time" - go figure..

There is no requirement for anyone to know the quality manual by heart. Posters, wallet cards - they can read it off of anything they have available. If an auditor would not allow it I would be close to stopping the audit and demanding a 'more appropriate' auditor from the registrar. SHOW ME where it says any employee has to know the quality policy by heart.

I see two appropriate questions:
1) What is the quality policy (you can read it if you like from your wallet card or one of the posters), and
2) What does the quality policy mean to you?

I was in an audit November 29th and 30th where International Management Systems ( small registrar in the Tampa area) 'president' Steve Pearson (a real charmer) was lead. Steve pressed this on almost everyone he interviewed with questions like "In your opinion does upper management care about the quality policy? Why do you believe that they do or don't? This was a new one on me. All told this quality policy thing is a bit lame.

By the way, I personally recommend against using Steve's company for registration unless you want a mini-inquisition and some real wild interpretations. Steve himself was the odd ball. The fella who Steve contracted with to help as the second auditor was a true gem who knew his business and the standard. But Steve was really off the wall.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 16 January 2001).]

> What are your objetives? What is the single most important thing you can do as
> an employee to ensure the policy and objectives are complied with? Follow
> policies and procedures.

These are appropriate questions for the Management Rep, 'upper' management and the quality manager - not everyone.

Just a comment on inconsistent application: I've accompanied assessors from three major league registrars, on pre-assessments, registration audits and/or surviellance audits. Of the three, one asked at least half of those interviewed about the quality policy, the other two didn't ask anyone, not even once. This made me look pretty foolish for having spent so much time making sure employees were ready for the questions.

Oh, well. Better to be over-prepared.

Alf