Guys, I am working on a thesis proposal and I am considering something like "Six Sigma, Fact or Fiction" I was hoping I could get some real life stories or other material I could use from the users of this forum. I'm sure many of you have success or horror stories and I would appreciate hearing them. thanks. Also, please vote on my poll, I will use it in my paper. :thedeal:

Guys, I am working on a thesis proposal and I am considering something like "Six Sigma, Fact or Fiction" I was hoping I could get some real life stories or other material I could use from the users of this forum. I'm sure many of you have success or horror stories and I would appreciate hearing them. thanks. Also, please vote on my poll, I will use it in my paper. :thedeal:I'm sorry - can't vote in this poll because we have never FORMALLY instituted a 6S initiative. For over 30 years, we have used techniques now claimed by 6S folk .

It's a shame the ASQ Forums are so antiquated and therefore unsearchable. There have been some very thoughful statements in the past three or four years about 6S, pro and con. ASQ also has a site (members only, sorry) for 6S at http://www.sixsigmaforum.com/ (http://www.sixsigmaforum.com/)

Bank of America is merging with Fleet Financial. They announced on October 27, 2003, they were going to implement 6S in working through any "kinks" in the merger.

Unable to vote. Have not used or considered a 6S program.

Dotto what Sam said. Sometimes all you need is a screwdriver, but I guess sometimes you need a hand-operated torque inducing device for slotted, spiral fasteners. :vfunny:

Unable to vote. Have not used or considered a 6S program.
Ditto here

CX

A company I worked for decided to implement a 6 sig program in September 2000 throughout the automotive division. Champions were named, a Master Black Belt hired, BB candidates were selected. Much effort & expense in training the 8 BB candidates. Green belts were selected and trained for each of the 4 locations. Our site had 9 certified GB's, 1 Certified BB, & the MBB. As of April of 2003 there were only 2 GB's still working the program. 1 on their third project of which none had generated a sustainable gain. The other on their 2nd project with no sustained gain. All remaining GB's had left the 6 sig program, all of the projects selected were of marginal success or not successful at all. The MBB had resigned to accept a position as a VP of Ops with another company. The Certified BB was certified even though the projects that were run by him generated no sustained gain, failed to implement adequate controls so all that was acheived was a short term grab of $20k over 3 months. (Low hanging fruit?)However he has been promoted, twice!! Most of the other BB's experiences and results were similar to the above. Currently only 1 BB is still doing the program.

MHO is "Lack of Management Committment will inevitably lead to Lack of Results"

Everytime there is management commitment for the use of statistical methods to improve quality, the company improves quality.

My company started 6 sigma last spring. A big push to get people trained, 2 blackbelts, 4 green. After almost 6 months we started some projects. The projects were all things that have plagued us for quite some time and were being worked on (unorganized) at the time the projects were started. After two months, I cannot see that 6 sigma has done anything for us, other than information is more readily shared. Any improvements that have been made to processes is not because of what we are doing as a 6 sigma team, improvements are coming from things we started before the team was formed. There is a huge push on collecting date, which we should have had anyway, but no actual trials or evaluations have been done. Will we eventually have a better process? Probably, but I don't see that 6 sigma has given us anything that we shouldn't have been doing anyway.

The one thing that irks me most is the fact that management has totally ignored investigating problems and root cause analysis, and now that we have 6 sigma, they think that every thing that happens has to be handled using the 6 sigma methodology. Not to mention that not one of them has any training in 6 sigma.

Oh, well, time to get off the soapbox!

The one thing that irks me most is the fact that management has totally ignored investigating problems and root cause analysis, and now that we have 6 sigma, they think that every thing that happens has to be handled using the 6 sigma methodology.

Reminds me of the old saying, "To the man whose only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail". ;)

There is a nice article on 6 sigma in the latest Quality Digest. It gives the results of their recent survey.

Dave

Six Sigma seems to have been mostly a job protection tool and promotion aid for the Black Belts (TM). All of the Green Belts that I know have been reassigned to "real" work on the bench again. To be fair, the BB's do have the ability to get some upper management attention onto a problem ... but I am not sure there have been any major results, at least none that have been shouted from the rooftops.

I get my amusement by dropping comments to the effect that of course when Shewhart or Juran wrote about such-and-such in the 1920's ... or when Ishikawa developed that in the 1960's ... or when Deming re-popularized Shewhart's cycle from the 1920's in the 1970's ... and Fiegenbaum said this and that in the 1950's ...

The story of Six Sigma would be useful to illustrate power marketing: how Motorola took all of the old reliable tools they used to reduce defects to the ppm level and win the Baldrige award and packaged them for easy sharing (as required by the MBNQA rules) only to see them expropriated and aggresively promoted by others. A package of old reliable tools, improved with new and flashier packaging, different labels on them, and new higher prices. Just like the corner drugstore - it's still aspirin, but it looks different and costs four times s much.

Graeme
(ASQ-CQE since before "six sigma" was a trademark)

Six Sigma seems to have been mostly a job protection tool and promotion aid for the Black Belts (TM). All of the Green Belts that I know have been reassigned to "real" work on the bench again. To be fair, the BB's do have the ability to get some upper management attention onto a problem ... but I am not sure there have been any major results, at least none that have been shouted from the rooftops.

I get my amusement by dropping comments to the effect that of course when Shewhart or Juran wrote about such-and-such in the 1920's ... or when Ishikawa developed that in the 1960's ... or when Deming re-popularized Shewhart's cycle from the 1920's in the 1970's ... and Fiegenbaum said this and that in the 1950's ...Yeah. Most of us old timers are dubious about the benefits of six sigma, but there are folks out there still touting the game and getting paid well to do it.
Here's an article with survey results which purport to show the up side of 6S
http://www.qualitydigest.com/currentmag/articles/01_article.shtml (http://www.qualitydigest.com/currentmag/articles/01_article.shtml)
the lead paragraph begins:
Going strong and reaping huge profits
by Dirk Dusharme

Despite its success, Six Sigma is often scorned as just the latest management fad, a repackaging of what has already been done, a rose by some other name. As this year's survey shows, Six Sigma is still going strong, even inching its way into smaller businesses and nonmanufacturing environments. [full story (http://click.exacttarget.com/?196610-wesbucey@earthlink.net-4124754-99828_HTML)]

After all, except for the concept of short-term results, there's not a lot in 6S that isn't just a repackage of Quality tools many of us use every day.

Maybe this will help our student get a picture of both sides of the issue.

I may be brain dead. I didn't see the other post that mentioned this same article until after I posted. I HAVE to remember about the word ASSUME!

Guys, I am working on a thesis proposal and I am considering something like "Six Sigma, Fact or Fiction" I was hoping I could get some real life stories or other material I could use from the users of this forum. I'm sure many of you have success or horror stories and I would appreciate hearing them. thanks. Also, please vote on my poll, I will use it in my paper. :thedeal:
I also would appreciate people voting. What are people really seeing is quite interesting.

I have watched six sigma for some time. A few years back, when I looked for outside information to drive input, I started this thread:

Six Sigma - The Beginnings and History (http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=2000)

There is a good related poll at:

Six Sigma - Statistical Tools - Valid or Hype? Value? Can a CQE do the same? (http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=3823)

I also recommend you read:
BALDRIGE, SIX SIGMA, & ISO: Understanding Your Options (http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6930)
Stimulate some reader response by questioning the Value of Six Sigma (http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=3805)

and see the 'Related Links' at the bottom of this page.

Also, a search in the forums (limit to thread TITLES for SIX SIGMA) will return many threads related to six sigma discussions.

To me, Bigfoot's post "...... Currently only 1 BB is still doing the program...." and Wes's post "I'm sorry - can't vote in this poll because we have never FORMALLY instituted a 6S initiative. For over 30 years, we have used techniques now claimed by 6S folk..." above says a lot.

Tarheel,
We have 2 Black Belts currently 1 works in our Qual & Ops Department. Also, we have submitted our plan for Green Belt Training for others.

Now don't take this as a complete buy in because it's not. We have seen improvement from the projects, but all the projects were currently on our CI list of projects. We made them into 6S projects to fulfill a requirement by our parent company. We must meet a certain $ amount each year so many projects are transferred over to the 6S forum.

There are plenty of tools out there to use for improvement projects. 6S is just another one. I don't think you'll find any one here that doesn't require data driven projects, that's really what 6S boils down to. 6S looks at Cause and Effect matrix, we may call it an FMEA. 6S looks at frequency we call it Pareto, 6S looks at savings in $$$$, we call it Cost of NonQuality. 6S looks at Process Effectivness we call it Value Stream Mapping. The list goes on.

There are plenty of tools out there to use for improvement projects. 6S is just another one. I don't think you'll find any one here that doesn't require data driven projects, that's really what 6S boils down to. 6S looks at Cause and Effect matrix, we may call it an FMEA. 6S looks at frequency we call it Pareto, 6S looks at savings in $$$$, we call it Cost of NonQuality. 6S looks at Process Effectivness we call it Value Stream Mapping. The list goes on.
Well said!

Good start! Thanks for the input. I tend to be skeptical also, but I am trying to keep an open mind at this point. I have also seen a lot of fads come and go in my 15 years in quality. Hopefully some true believers will join in the conversation.
:thedeal:

Here is another dissenting opinion recently published in the SAE magazine Manufacturing Engineering.
http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-mag.pl?&&03ocm009&000007&2003/03ocm009&ARTME&SME&

Dave

Is there anything new in the Six Sigma tool set? No. I believe it is Shewhart, Deming, Juran etc. repackaged and remarketed. That being said I still believe it is the best thing that has happened to the Quality profession for years. Six Sigma has gotten Quality into the boardrooms of corporations. I’ve seen other Quality initiatives with the same or similar tool set come and go because they never truly had top management support (demonstrated dollar savings). For now Six Sigma has top management support, because of its emphasis on savings.

Of course there will be failures in any program but is that due to the methodology or is it because of poor management decisions? Does it matter who gets credit for originating the tools used as long as your processes improve?


Bob

Here's an other angle,
Over the past 10 years of employment at Ford, I have seen many management fads come and go. Some of the statistical and non-statistical tools and techniques used in the past IMHO have impacted business management in a more profound manner way before Ford decided to take 6S into the Ford main stream.
And then in came 6S, like a sunami, it overwelmed almost everything it came in contact with. Everyone from Upper management to line workers were discussing the greatness of 6S and the great potential for Ford as an organization. Well that was almost 4 years ago at my location and (Were still waiting), I can say with conviction that it has certainly made an impact in some area's of my location regarding infusing an awareness of Statistical process control (SPC). Amost all of the trained blackbelts though have fattened up their resume's and moved on the greater and more challenging careers (Thanks to Ford's free training) and, in the process have left unfinished projects to untrained individuals who have become frustrated with the interpretation and use of the tools and techniques of 6S.
A shift has taken place again and, the shift is a shift back to the basics of good old SPC because, after all the cost of training and infusing a 6S initiative throughout my location, the result of 6S was to enforce the short term gains approach that, in the end was detrimental to the intentions of 6S. Getting back to the basics of SPC has IMHO been the most logical approach to business and manufacturing managment.
Wallace.

Here is another dissenting opinion recently published in the SAE magazine Manufacturing Engineering.
http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-mag.pl?&&03ocm009&000007&2003/03ocm009&ARTME&SME&

Dave

Very good article. But just one comment. When Motorola started six sigma it was started with product design. The thought being that the product had to be designed with six sigma capabilities in order for the process to produce product within the six sigma limits.

Reminds me of the old saying, "To the man whose only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail". ;)Two tool analogies in one thread! Good job, Mike! I agree with the folks that see this as old tools in a shiny new package. The first person I could find as espousing the Plan-Do-Check-Act was in The New State, by Mary Parker Follett, in 1918. (see Quality-SPC History Powerpoint). How about learning to walk before you run? IMO, many jump on the 6S bandwagon when they have yet to implant a basic TQM/QMS system in their company culture. I was reliving one of the best management reviews ever with a fellow quality sufferer over the weekend. In our second management review (1 year after getting our 9k94 cert.), the CEO, eng vp, ops vp, and CFO stayed after and praised the QA team. The gist was that all of the day-to-day firefighting problems had been analyzed, prioritized and then killed at the root. Before implementing a quality managment SYSTEM, we had been so busy fixing problems that we could not focus any effort on gaining ground. After implementing the system, we were able to spend far more time on new product development vs. product support, field installations vs. telephone support, production process effeciency vs. rework, calling on our customers to see what we could do for them vs. our customers calling us to complain. I got my Black Belt at JC Penny's. :vfunny:

Is there anything new in the Six Sigma tool set? No. I believe it is Shewhart, Deming, Juran etc. repackaged and remarketed. That being said I still believe it is the best thing that has happened to the Quality profession for years. Six Sigma has gotten Quality into the boardrooms of corporations. I’ve seen other Quality initiatives with the same or similar tool set come and go because they never truly had top management support (demonstrated dollar savings). For now Six Sigma has top management support, because of its emphasis on savings.

Of course there will be failures in any program but is that due to the methodology or is it because of poor management decisions? Does it matter who gets credit for originating the tools used as long as your processes improve?

BobHi Bob, Welcome to the Cove and thanks for your input. I highlighted the line in your post because I guess that sums up the whole discussion. Aside from all the wonderful stories we hear from time to time, have you, personally, ever had a successful six sigma program? If so, was it a true six sigma project or did you accomplish the same results without the added expense of Kung Fu gurus?
I think the point is that no matter who came up with the tools, six sigma became a board room "buzz word" and another good, well intentioned program got bastardized. JMHO.

Dave

Dave,

Thanks for the welcome. The company I work for has been involved with Six Sigma since the early 90s, I’ve been involved with it in one form or other since ’95. I believe the program has been successful. The initial training was done by outside consultants, after the initial wave of training was done insiders performed all of the training and the program was self-sustaining. And yes the same results could have been accomplished without the outside consultants, if we had been given the opportunity to optimize the processes, instead of fighting fires. The Six Sigma initiative allowed us that opportunity. There are a lot of things I don’t like about Six Sigma, for example the “Six Sigma” career path I see developing, (continual improvement is every ones job and not a select group with-in a company), and the “bastardization” of a good initiative by companies “doing” Six Sigma as window dressing just as they “did” SPC.But overall I believe it offers more positives then negatives.

Bob

Welcome Bob "e006823"! :bigwave: and might I say (for today's inputs), Bravo, Bravo, Bravo to you and Wallace (for the Ford insight) and Icy Mtn (with whom I most often agree)!!! p.s. my MBB came from Rob's Quality Emporium.

Rob.

Here is another dissenting opinion recently published in the SAE magazine Manufacturing Engineering.
http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-mag.pl?&&03ocm009&000007&2003/03ocm009&ARTME&SME&

Dave

Thanks for the link. The more of these the better. :thedeal:

Dave,
The dissenting opinion article link that you posted said it all.
Nothing new in 6S.
Wallace.

Tarheel,

I like your idea of “Six Sigma Fact or Fiction” for a thesis. In addition to the question “Six Sigma Has Truly Worked For My Company”, I would like to see some culture questions like “My company knows how to profit from an improvement in a process.” and “My company has a sense of purpose and sticks to it”. I bet there would be some interesting correlations!

Tom

Mr Randy Stewart did a good job joining our well rehearsed quality management sub-systems corroborated by tools known otherwise, but heres a cocktail which is doing wonders.This is 6 sigma. The cocktail is under the BIGFOOT's claim of sig sigmaites doingwonders in the shop floor, on the job humping scene, and even in social context.
Recently in a multinational QS9K MNC in India, two of the three loner six sigma BB's deserted the company. The third is destined to leave them in the lurch. Thanks to the employer-sponsorer, they will be hunting for more freshers on the road, training them in basic powder metallurgy.
Is it not due to the hype- if one doesn't believe they cross the impediments faster thanks to the coveted concotion for results?
My son ( young BB Boy) claimed his six sigma project fetched the company 1.6 million Rupees saved in one single project ( first of his major responsibility). It is 6 sigma, which gave the platform for results. But it is the man behind the machine always! Tools are only for one's help

Thareja

Here is another in the long list of 6 Sigma articles. This one from the current issue of Quality Digest.

http://www.qualitydigest.com/currentmag/articles/01_article.shtml

Dave

I'm taken this just a bit further here:

http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=7922

While I (Quality Engineer) understand that most Quality People Don’t really like Six Sigma because its using "old tools" that they themselves already use and the SS People get the owners attention or promotions when most the time regular Quality People can't or have to fight to for to get in order to get things done or improved. The Six Sigma People go at it from the other end, Not Quality as much but where it counts to an Owner, his Money. And so he gets the owner’s attention to things much easier, and after all Six Sigma is about not improvement to product so much as in cpk to a dimention. But using the same tools as Quality People to show the owner he can make or save money in other areas. Most owners don’t think of Quality People saving him money because money to Quality is overhead and not money making money to start with.
But in the End, Anthing that helps a company to stay strong these days helps keep all of our jobs. I think its using a old things to do old things in another way that gets the money behide the projects. :)

I wonder what ever happened with the thesis...

Thanks for asking Marc. I am working on it as I speak. I still would appreciate any posts with details of implementations that I could use. One thing I have run up against is I can find no books with anti-6 sigma sentiment. Every book is a proponent. I have many small articles and posts, but apparently anti books do not sell.

I my self am not a 6S fan but..

May be because if you write a book, the material must be large enought, or/and have something as alternative (six sigma have been cleaver enought to add the new technologies when they appear on sight), It's more posible to find something as an article. Other reason may be because the companies spend to many $$$ on training and development of six sigma that don't want to show the reality (no $$$ return), who will want to loss their head?.
:lmao:

I my self am not a 6S fan but..

May be because if you write a book, the material must be large enought, or/and have something as alternative (six sigma have been cleaver enought to add the new technologies when they appear on sight), It's more posible to find something as an article. Other reason may be because the companies spend to many $$$ on training and development of six sigma that don't want to show the reality (no $$$ return), who will want to loss their head?.
:lmao:


Hi!
I'm just beginning here, but I think the same way. 6S isn't a philosophy, a brand new quality tool, but just a way to use many well known quality tools, mostely the statistics.
I'm not a 6S user, but I have just made a large research , and in my coutry (Brazil) only a few companies (mainly the multinational) are starting to take a 6S team work.

Best regards,
Joao Luiz

Here is another dissenting opinion recently published in the SAE magazine Manufacturing Engineering.
http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-mag.pl?&&03ocm009&000007&2003/03ocm009&ARTME&SME&

Dave

Dear Covers and potential students:

The following extract from an interview with Dr. Harry Mikel, which appeared in Quality Digest, might provide much needed perspective; see bolded quote (added by me).

http://www.qualitydigest.com/feb04/articles/06_article.shtml

QD: When we last talked, we discussed how difficult it is for small companies (those with fewer than 500 employees) to roll out traditional Six Sigma. Is this because traditional Six Sigma is based on corporations with big structures?

QD: On an individual level, is the (Six Sigma) training cost-prohibitive? And is this something that you’ve addressed as part of your partnership with Arizona State University?

Harry: I’m going to cut the cost of Black Belt and Green Belt training by a factor of 10. That’s my new goal. Before, I was the Rolls-Royce of Six Sigma. Now my goal is to become the Wal-Mart of Six Sigma, delivered at the speed of FedEx with the quality of Toyota. That’s part of what I’ve been working on for the past two years. We’ve formed a federation, and major corporations are slated to join the federation.

Charmed :)

P. S. The next step then is the implementation of this "collection of tools" in small corporations, with greatly reduced costs of certifying YB, GB, BB, MBB etc. May be here's a good research or thesis topic. What's different about implementing 6S in a small company as opposed to a big one (like Ford, for example, currently in its sixth year, I think)?

Here is another dissenting opinion recently published in the SAE magazine Manufacturing Engineering.
http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-mag.pl?&&03ocm009&000007&2003/03ocm009&ARTME&SME& Good article link!

Here is another dissenting opinion recently published in the SAE magazine Manufacturing Engineering.
http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-mag.pl?&&03ocm009&000007&2003/03ocm009&ARTME&SME&

Dave

Dave,

I agree with Marc :agree1: . This is a very good article and people wishing to jump into SS should step back and take a look at cheaper options or adopt the tools (Pareto, SPC etc) that will work in their company. Six Sigma is NOT for everyone nor every company. I'd rather have a program that sent electric shocks thru management each time they failed to follow up on actions required to close out Non Conformances. :lol:

I keep coming back to seeing people defining six sigma as one of the following:

1. Statistical
2. Set of tools (not limited to statistical tools)
3. Philosophy (both of the above plus 'mindset')

I started a thread a couple of days ago asking for a list of the 'tools' ( http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9332 ) and two folks replied and both essentially said Philosophy. Govind did give a good high view list, but to me, like a lot of ISO 9001, is nothing more than what I would call good business practices. Of course, this has been a long time complaint of mine about ISO 9001.

Six sigma, as is evident in the relatively few threads (vs. ISO 9000 related threads, for example) here on six sigma, is obviously very polarizing.

I will say I don't doubt black belt and other six sigma training is good for anyone. It's training no matter what label one applies to it.

Dear Covers and potential students:
QD: On an individual level, is the (Six Sigma) training cost-prohibitive?


Actually the training is free! The public schools teach quality tools in grammar school and teach "six sigma techniques", (statistics), in high school. This is true in South Carolina.

Maybe corporations should visit our schools. Perhaps certain corporations should trade in their limos for mountain bikes.

Best Wishes,

Tom

...I'd rather have a program that sent electric shocks thru management each time they failed to follow up on actions required to close out Non Conformances. :lol:
…still not in the market, huh!?!... :(

I think not just 6S , other tools are available , we still can use QCC and other cheap tools for improvement and cost reduction ……………..it’s all about commitment and determination of an organization to improve or cost reduction.
6S is tools that are made popular by somebody …..And what a big HU..HA …. . After all if you like it use it or don’t even try it. They had made life more difficult of human with the word of statistic – methodology and approach .

I think not just 6S , other tools are available , we still can use QCC and other cheap tools for improvement and cost reduction ……………..it’s all about commitment and determination of an organization to improve or cost reduction.
6S is tools that are made popular by somebody …..And what a big HU..HA …. . After all if you like it use it or don’t even try it. They had made life more difficult of human with the word of statistic – methodology and approach .

i agree with u maximus!:applause:

Govind did give a good high view list, but to me, like a lot of ISO 9001, is nothing more than what I would call good business practices. Of course, this has been a long time complaint of mine about ISO 9001.

Six sigma, as is evident in the relatively few threads (vs. ISO 9000 related threads, for example) here on six sigma, is obviously very polarizing.

I will say I don't doubt black belt and other six sigma training is good for anyone. It's training no matter what label one applies to it.
:applause:

Absolutely. But how do you get people to use "good business practices"? By making programs to train people in those principles whether it be ISO or Six Sigma or whatever new terminology happens to come up. The way you keep getting better or keep people getting involved is to change....to do something different so it doesn't become boring. So "good business practices" are under other guises to get companies to do things differently under what is perceived to be something different.:2cents:

It works, which is the goal, to become better and make work life easier for all involved....

:applause:

Absolutely. But how do you get people to use "good business practices"? By making programs to train people in those principles whether it be ISO or Six Sigma or whatever new terminology happens to come up. The way you keep getting better or keep people getting involved is to change....to do something different so it doesn't become boring. So "good business practices" are under other guises to get companies to do things differently under what is perceived to be something different.:2cents:

It works, which is the goal, to become better and make work life easier for all involved....

The problem is that people get wise to the fact that all that's changing is the terminology. And then it doesn't work. Six Sigma has some excellent improvements to prior practices. However, using the change in terminology to try to sell process improvement and management excellence in general added to the resistance to change, it didn't help. The cry of "Flavor of the Month" goes up, and the very people you are trying to reach stop listening. The original premise of Six Sigma - Creating very low in-process error rates is the most effective AND cheapest way to reduce field failures and increase customer satisfaction - has been lost in the noise and the hoopla. I've talked to Black Belts that don't even know that this is the original Six Sigma concept.

Geoff Withnell
ASQ CSSBB
BearingPoint Master Black Belt

On the CQI web site there is an on line article on the merits (or otherwise) of six sigma. You can look at it here (http://www.thecqi.org/qualityworld/c4-1-163.shtml). Another restrained piece by me! :notme:

...I just checked the poll results as of this time and here they are:

Fact: 39.13%
Fiction: 41.30%
Marginally: 19.5%

...so, it is still fiction huh... :(

The major problem with 6S (IMHO) is that companies spend a fortune in training people to be green belts, black belts, pink belts with yellow spots :notme:, who can identify where the process variation is, but A) they then don't have the people who know how to fix the problem and B) it is far too late, as the real time to ensure minimal variation is at the product/process design stage.

I have seen several 6S projects and have yet to see significant improvements in terms of reduced variation or cost savings.

On the other hand, I have also seen some truly amazing results from Nissan, 2 day and 10 day, Kaizen activities. Working for a Tier 1 supplier in the early 90's, Nissan loaned us one of their trainers for a week as part of their supplier development programme. The first 2 projects resulted in cost savings of over £100,000 pa and measurable quality improvements.
The main difference is that the Nissan approach was to train multi-functional teams in the basic quality toolbox. Imagine how effective it is to have the people who really know the process :- operators, line technicians, etc., trained to perform effective brainstorming, ishikawa diagrams and to "think outside the box".

:2cents:You can package these fads with buzzwords and mystique, but you can't beat giving the right people the right tools for the job!

On the CQI web site there is an on line article on the merits (or otherwise) of six sigma. You can look at it here (http://www.thecqi.org/qualityworld/c4-1-163.shtml). Another restrained piece by me! :notme:

80:20!:lol:You gave it a really nice summary.
:agree1:

On the CQI web site there is an on line article on the merits (or otherwise) of six sigma. You can look at it here (http://www.thecqi.org/qualityworld/c4-1-163.shtml). Another restrained piece by me! :notme:

Good job. :bigwave: Paul says,
If your 'belts' of whatever hue do not understand the basic concepts including common and special causes of variation then your six sigma programme is worthless.

That's it in a nutshell, I think. I've lately come to realize that the current fatuation with SS stems from neophytes recognizing that the coopted "core tools" of SS--understanding variation, finding root causes, methodological problem solving--are valid and valuable, and in their ignorance and zeal they take the plunge and accept the fallacies--the 1.5 shift, the folly of 3.4 DPMO, the ugly transmogrification of the simple PDCA into DMAIC--at face value. In other words, they see the tried-and-true assets of SS and assume that the garbage must be OK too. But strip away the garbage and the ridiculous caste system and you have relatively simple concepts that we've had for a long time.

I use to work for toyota for many years and visited many suppliers who had or had not got 6 sigma controls. We generally were happy to work with those without and avoid those with in terms of developing them. The basics have already been said, that even those with had actually little knowledge of true root cause analysis and countermeasure. it has many branches which if applie correctly are very useful but you need many brances to make the tree, on there own the tools can fall down quickly. Similar to applying TPS and saying we do Kaizen etc etc. The use of the stats is very useful tools for proving c/m effectiveness, mintab is very good tool, but at Toyota such systems like having black belts, geen belts, SPC etc was once tried in a slightly different form but dropped early on since for the shopfloor and practical applcation it was too much to implement it as a working system, TPS tends to be on the surface much simpler, but actually also has its complications, the key point is everyone does it from top down

Yellow Belts, Green Belts, and Black Belts .... Oh my!! :lol:

Just like Meaggie-Son said in the Karate Kid... a belt is only useful to hold up your pants. Karate lives in your heart and head. Same can be said with Six Sigma! The essence of Six Sigma is simply this... "To make the BEST decision you can based upon data and information". Organizations that get hung up upon how many "belts" they have trained have completely missed the point.

I am currently a Master Black Belt with over 8000 hour of instructing and leading experience in Six Sigma, Kepner Tregoe, and other problem solving methodologies. This is what I do for a living, and I love every minute of it.

There is a common theme throughout the entire problem solving / CI methodologies and that is to use FACTS, Not Opinions when making decisions.

I am still amazed to this day that most engineers and manufacturing folks don't use any kind of data to try to improve their process. They use perception, opinions, experience, gut feel, and what I like to call the "Poke and Hope" method (change something and cross your fingers and hope that it worked) to solve problems.

What is great about Six Sigma is that it provides you a road map for problem solving and enforces the discipline of making sound decisions based upon data.

Orgainazations that actually embrace the Six Sigma methodology and are disciplined enough to follow it, usually see significant results. Otherwise, it is just a rehash of TQM.

I was a legacy Honeywell employee for 30+ years. We routinely used many of the tools that the more formal 6 sigma program mandates, with success because we used them selectively based on unfavorable metrics that pointed to unprofitable, problematic areas of the business.

When Allied bought Honeywell and forced 6 sigma down everyones neck, it was overkill and marginallly successful.

Should 6S be utilized? yes!

Should it be utilized selectively? Absolutely, because you are expending valuable resources and you want to take advantage of these resources where and when they will provide you with the greatest benefit.

Bob