We are a QS 9000 registered, bulk material, tier 2 supplier.

Page 1 of PPAP 3rd Edition states that for bulk material suppliers, PPAP is not required unless requested by our customers. During a recent audit our auditor, SGS International, said that even if a customer does not request a PPAP, we still need to document/retain in-house the 19 items in table I.2.2 on page 16. We did not interpret
the standard this way. We are not creating/retaining this information unless requested by a customer (as a standard business pratice, we have some of the info but our retention time is approx. 5 years only).

What is the correct interpretation? If SGS is incorrect, how do I "point" this out to them?

Susan, your interpretation is the correct one. Section 4.2.4.1 of he QS9K 3rd Ed states "The supplier shall fully comply with all requirements set forth in the Production Part Approval Process (PPAP) manual." Since PPAP manual states that it is not required (which is a form of waiver), then SGS is out of line to require you to perform a PPAP exercise.

Right or wrong, there are registrars who require at least 1 full PPAP to be completed as evidence that you have a system which can produce a PPAP whether you have ever been required to do one or not. But - I do not have direct experience in PPAPing bulk materials so I don't know what's involved in your case.

Been there ,done that.
You will not be able to convince your registrar/auditor that they are wrong.
The requirement is quite clear 4.2.4.1 "fully comply...". This is a QS9000 requirement not a customer requirement.
If you are really convinced that your interpretation is correct submit it to the IASG for clarification.

CAn some one give me a format or sample of PPAP waiver form fo supplier??

CAn some one give me a format or sample of PPAP waiver form fo supplier??

Hello mkgakbani! Welcome to The Cove Forums. :bigwave: :bigwave:

Can you explain this situation a little bit more?

Why would you need this waiver?

More information will allow my Fellow Covers to review and respond.

Stijloor.

CAn some one give me a format or sample of PPAP waiver form fo supplier??
Just to be clear...you are the customer, and you are waiving the requirement for a PPAP? Sorry, I just want to make sure that everyone is on the same page.

Back in the day....before I made life simple and moved to a non-automotive plant, any order requiring a PPAP, was clearly denoted as such from the customer. You no ask, we no PPAP. Is this what you are asking?

ETA: it looks like I was simulposting with Stijloor...

ETA: it looks like I was simulposting with Stijloor...

Telepathic posters....:cool:

You know what they say about "great minds".......:notme:

Stijloor.

Thanks Jan, believe it not, you are the second person to tell me that today, I must finally be gaining the respect I deserve.:notme::o

Thanks Jan, believe it not, you are the second person to tell me that today, I must finally be gaining the respect I deserve.:notme::o

:topic: You deserve, and have my utmost respect! :yes:

Jan.

CAn some one give me a format or sample of PPAP waiver form fo supplier??

As others have pointed out, it's not clear whether you are the customer or the supplier. In general, PPAP is a contractual requirement, and often the requirement is documented in purchase orders, either directly or by reference. If you're a supplier and want your customer to waive PPAP requirements, you have to ask them to do it, and then get the waiver in writing with it being made clear that the waiver supersedes purchase order (or other contractual) requirements. No form is necessary.

On the other hand, if you're the customer, you only need to put the waiver in writing and send it to your supplier(s). This is true whether you're just waiving individual elements or waiving PPAP requirements altogether. If it's the former case, you should be sure to differentiate between requirements for submission and requirements for doing the elements at all.

We are a QS 9000 registered, bulk material, tier 2 supplier.

Page 1 of PPAP 3rd Edition states that for bulk material suppliers, PPAP is not required unless requested by our customers. During a recent audit our auditor, SGS International, said that even if a customer does not request a PPAP, we still need to document/retain in-house the 19 items in table I.2.2 on page 16. We did not interpret
the standard this way. We are not creating/retaining this information unless requested by a customer (as a standard business pratice, we have some of the info but our retention time is approx. 5 years only).

What is the correct interpretation? If SGS is incorrect, how do I "point" this out to them?

You are supposed to prepare all the 19 documents of PPAP, irrespective of how many are required by the customer. Some customers ask for PSW only and some ask for a limited few forms, in such cases you don't have to send all the 19 but you are supposed to retain all 19s in your record.

Umang

Jim;

Thanks for reply.
Acually I am a customer. My company is in process to implement PPAP from scratch. Based on product we are making, we can not implement PPAP in full as it has at automotive indus.
But we are implementing a small portion of it as Beta testing.
What am I looking right now a sample of PPAP waiver form tamplate based on which I make my own with requirements. Most of my supplier is unaware of PPAP so I can not impose on them all of sudden.

Can I get some tamplates of waiver form?

Thanks



As others have pointed out, it's not clear whether you are the customer or the supplier. In general, PPAP is a contractual requirement, and often the requirement is documented in purchase orders, either directly or by reference. If you're a supplier and want your customer to waive PPAP requirements, you have to ask them to do it, and then get the waiver in writing with it being made clear that the waiver supersedes purchase order (or other contractual) requirements. No form is necessary.

On the other hand, if you're the customer, you only need to put the waiver in writing and send it to your supplier(s). This is true whether you're just waiving individual elements or waiving PPAP requirements altogether. If it's the former case, you should be sure to differentiate between requirements for submission and requirements for doing the elements at all.

All;

Sorry for not clearly stating here. it was my first time here.
Any how,
I am looking for some tamplate for the PPAP waiver form.
Actually I am a customer in this case and my company is going to implement the PPAP to our supplier. We can not implement full PPAP because of our product nature and also our supplier is not aware of PPAP system. So we decide to implement this system bit by bit.
What I am looking here a waiver form tampplete based on which I can make my own based on my requirement.

I think I clear it now. Did not I?

It sounds like you're not in the automotive industry. Is there a reason why you want to reference a manual that you only partially want them to comply with, then issue a waiver?

Have you considered issuing your own supplier quality manual instead? Here's a link to an example I posted a few years back: http://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3444&d=1111601453