Hello,
The company that I work for is going for TS certification, and we are having trouble getting a hold of the Customer Specific Requirements. We are aware of the listing AIAG has published in their "Exploring ISO/TS 16949:2002" magazine, however, some of the sites which have the customer requirements on them are password protected. This has been the problem for Toyota, Honda and Nissan. Because we have contracts only with the accessory groups for each of these customers, we do not have access to these websites. Would it be safe to say that the customer requirements for us are only the ones found on RFQ’s, prints, specifications, Feasibility Plan, etc, rather than a specific document as would be found on the websites?

Thanks for your input!

Hello,
The company that I work for is going for TS certification, and we are having trouble getting a hold of the Customer Specific Requirements. We are aware of the listing AIAG has published in their "Exploring ISO/TS 16949:2002" magazine, however, some of the sites which have the customer requirements on them are password protected. This has been the problem for Toyota, Honda and Nissan. Because we have contracts only with the accessory groups for each of these customers, we do not have access to these websites. Would it be safe to say that the customer requirements for us are only the ones found on RFQ’s, prints, specifications, Feasibility Plan, etc, rather than a specific document as would be found on the websites?

Thanks for your input!The simplest course of action is to request a response on this topic from the contact people your company has at each of the accessory groups. If they (your customers) expect you to comply with the customer-specific aspects of ANY Standard, they will give you access to those "password protected" sites.

Failing that, contact each of the "primes" directly and ask for access. They are usually open to exploring new suppliers, especially ones proactive enough to seek registration to a Standard.

Obviously, if you are the 3rd.; 4th; or 5th. tier supplier, you may have to ask the customer specific requirements (CSR) from their customer. We are NOT a tier 1 or 2 suppliers but we are supply to one electronic-based organization. But this organization give us the GM CSR and requested us to meet the TS2 requirements.

However, we do not have to "fulfill" the other direct requirements such as spelled out in the other GM (GP) documents.

Perhaps, it would be a good idea is to send out letters to all your existing custoemrs and asked them if they have any CSR specifically your organization has to fulfill. If none, tell the CB auditors. You have to provide the list of CSRequirments to your CB auditor during the Document Review.

It seems like everybody these days wants to impose "special" customer specific requirements. We consider only those requirements agreed at the time of quote. If the customer refers to their supplier manual, they must provide it up front. If they refer you to a website, they have to provide access. If they refer to document "X" they have to provide that. To just make a statement that you should follow all their requirements without knowing exactly what they are is nonsense.

Lately we have noticed some customers are inventing new requirements just because it seems to be the fad these days. If a notice comes in from a customer with a new requirement, that requirement is now the subject of contract review. If we object to it, we will respond stating our objection. If we feel we can do it but need to increase the price, we tell them that. Regardless of what an SQE decides would be nice to impose on the supplier, it is subject to contract review.

My point is, if there is nothing about customer specific requirements at the time of quote, you are not required to run around asking if there are any. If you ask your customers after the fact, don't be surprised at some of the answers you get. If you think I'm wrong, try asking your customers if they require annual PPAPs (a brilliant idea that was mentioned quite a while back). See how many say "what's a PPAP?" and when you tell them they say "OH yeah, that would be good".

Speak of good timing - I just got a fax from a customer announcing a charge of $100 for every tub returned without the proper paperwork in each tub. This may appear reasonable to some but consider this - not all tubs arrive from the platers with paperwork - not all tubs have the same paperwork and there is nothing to say what is the proper paperwork - the fax goes on to say if there are several tubs in the order, we must make copies for each tub - our charge for each tub is generally less than $100. We have been doing business with this customer for years and now to solve a problem at their end they impose a CSR. Are we bound by it? I would argue no because it isn't part of the current contract but that approach won't get their parts shipped in here either.

Climbing down from the soapbox now. Sorry to carry on but you happened to hit one of my biggest pet peeves.

Dave

Hello,
The company that I work for is going for TS certification, and we are having trouble getting a hold of the Customer Specific Requirements. We are aware of the listing AIAG has published in their "Exploring ISO/TS 16949:2002" magazine, however, some of the sites which have the customer requirements on them are password protected. This has been the problem for Toyota, Honda and Nissan. Because we have contracts only with the accessory groups for each of these customers, we do not have access to these websites. Would it be safe to say that the customer requirements for us are only the ones found on RFQ’s, prints, specifications, Feasibility Plan, etc, rather than a specific document as would be found on the websites?

Thanks for your input!

We are a supplier to the Toyota, Honda and Nisson accessory groups, but I'm not aware that they are imposing TS2.

To become certified to TS2 you first must have a customer that has imposed the specification; then must be able to present a list of your customer specific requirements to your CB prior to the certification audit. The auditor will use this list during the certification and follow-on surveillance audits.
If you are a tier I to Chrysler,Ford or GM, Their CSR's are found on the IAOB web site. For other OEM's you must contact the SQA directly to determine thw CSR's, unless they are noted in your RFQ. If you are not tier I then you will have to contact each customer directly for their requirements.

Thanks for all of your opinions!
The main thing that we are struggling with is that, as far as I understand it, TS requires us to meet ALL customer requirements - not just the requirements of the customers who are imposing TS. So, even though Toyota, etc, is not requiring we have TS, the Big 3 is requiring it, and so to comply with ts, we still have to focus on Toyota, Honda and Nissan's requirements (we are tier 1 & 2).
Obviously, we are looking at the requirements from our customers which are made in the quote, but the 'other' CSRs for the Big 3 were easily found @ iaob - unfortunately this isn't the case with Toyota, etc. We just want to be sure we aren't missing anything.
Seems like the best plan is we'll just have to contact them and see whether there are any 'special' requirements they expect from us!

Elizabeth, since your organization is supplying to Nissan, may I ask if you know soemthing about "Nissan" ramp-up activities.

The Nissan guys are coming to visit us and provided us some documents and mentioning about ramp-up activities.

Cn you help me out?

Hi! Elizabeth: I'm responsible for TS in my company and we are already certified. The TS customer specific requirements for TS are for DCX, Ford, Visteon and GM only... other customers use the quality supplier manual. For instance if the auditor request for a customer requirement for VW you have to show the formel Q.

Sloulmas, what if we are also supplying to other automotive OEMs such as Mitsubishi and Nissan? Do we have to seek CSR and show them to the TS2 auditors.

I can undesrtand that other requirements can be spelled out in the RFQ and Sales Contracts. Is there any other means that TS2 auditors would like to review other CSR.....

But

See attachment the article from AIAG that indicated these CSR......that I have put up on the othe thread under "Nissan Ramp-up".

The "Nissan Ramp-up" thread:
http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=7910

Also see:
http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=7533

SilverHawk...if you are have other automotive OEMs (Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai) You need to have handly their CSR in case the auditor request it. I do not have Nissan customers at this time, but we do have Mitsubishi...and they, as others (Honda, Toyota) they have a supplier quality manual, that's the one you need to be ready during TS.

regards,
Soulma

To simplify what everyone has said....


How about asking the customer what they want and what they need? Then do it..

Sorry, it's been a long week.

Yes! We have always ask the customers but we have two very unique custoemrs in Malaysia - Proton & Perodua. These are two local Malaysian OEMs but their CSR is unusual, too. At one time, they wanted us to follow VDA and now asking us to go for TS2.... what the CSR? They cannot provide the details.

Toyota Malaysia also provide us with the Supplier QA Manual and at the very least there is something to follow.

The TS2 auditors are not very helpful at all. Since Proton & Perodua are not "subscribers" of TS2, why the TS2 auditors are tryinng ot "impose" on us.

We asked our customers, yet they are equally "uncertain" and not too sure what's the expectation. You ask for anything from the customers, they will ask to look for somewhere else.

Can IATF / IAOB listed out that ONLY the subscribers to TS2 have had CSR and the rests are not applicable.....

Yes! We have always ask the customers but we have two very unique custoemrs in Malaysia - Proton & Perodua. These are two local Malaysian OEMs but their CSR is unusual, too. At one time, they wanted us to follow VDA and now asking us to go for TS2.... what the CSR? They cannot provide the details.

Toyota Malaysia also provide us with the Supplier QA Manual and at the very least there is something to follow.

The TS2 auditors are not very helpful at all. Since Proton & Perodua are not "subscribers" of TS2, why the TS2 auditors are tryinng ot "impose" on us.

We asked our customers, yet they are equally "uncertain" and not too sure what's the expectation. You ask for anything from the customers, they will ask to look for somewhere else.

Can IATF / IAOB listed out that ONLY the subscribers to TS2 have had CSR and the rests are not applicable.....

Refer to the "rules" for certification.
Clause 1.5 - "The scope of certification shall include all products supplied to customers subscribing to the certification to ISO/TS 16949-2002".

It seems to me that your customers should be certified to mTS2 or at least QS9000or VDA or else why would they impose TS2 on you.
If they have placed this requirement in the contract or order it becomes a customer specific requirement.
I would discuss this further with your customers. The link appears to be broken some where.

Thanks, Sam. If we go thru' Ford, DCX and Ford TS 16949:2002 CSR which we can download from IAOB except Ford.... the TS requirements are spelled out.

The Big 3 still have other requirements as spelled out the other documents. Do we have to mentioned them in our contract review?

If the local OEM has not even develop theior own CSR and other documents and us to filfull TS2? How do we go about it?

Thanks, Sam. If we go thru' Ford, DCX and Ford TS 16949:2002 CSR which we can download from IAOB except Ford.... the TS requirements are spelled out.

The Big 3 still have other requirements as spelled out the other documents. Do we have to mentioned them in our contract review?

If the local OEM has not even develop theior own CSR and other documents and us to filfull TS2? How do we go about it?

You need a process for addressing ALL customer documents; those in the contract/order/SOW and those listed in the CSR's.

First, your customer needs to state in their RFQ, to you, that certification to TS 16949-2002 is a requirement. This request , in effect, becomes a CSR and all of the requirements of the specification apply.
I can't determine from your post whether or not you are presently certified, if not, the second step would be to contact a registrar and discuss your eligibilitly and time frame for certification.

Is anyone familiar with Mopar? We were discussing here that Mopar is really a separate company from DC, and so maybe we should not be looking to Chrysler's requirements, but instead only Mopar's. Does anyone know where I might be able to find those requirements?

Is anyone familiar with Mopar? We were discussing here that Mopar is really a separate company from DC, and so maybe we should not be looking to Chrysler's requirements, but instead only Mopar's. Does anyone know where I might be able to find those requirements?

MOPAR is the "Service Parts and accessories" group for DCX. The CSR's apply, unless otherwise waived by your SQA. PPAP submittal is submitted manually as opposed to submission via the "prism" process.

thanks sam
we have found that with Mopar they don't require us to follow several of the DC CSRs (we have waivers), for things like PAP and PSO, etc. So I thought maybe to save us having to get waivers, Mopar would have a list of it's own CSRs to make things a little less complicated...since Mopar is almost like a company on its own.

We have a form that sales fills out if a customer has specific requirements for ALL ORDERS. They forward the form to me and I enter the requirements into the order entry system notes so they print on every pick slip. Then I post the form itself on our document control system. If documents are not udpated within a year, the sales rep is automatically notified by the system that it's time to review the requirements again. The customers love the annual review...it helps us both.

Hello -
We have successfully gone through our 1st TS16949 certification for one of our manufacturing facilities (we're the support site for Sales, Purchasing and Design) We still have several facilities to complete between now and 2006.

I've been tasked to locate and determine if the following OEMs have deadlines for ISo9001:2000 or TS16949. GM, DCX and Ford are identified on most everything I've seen but, not much for the JOEM and European market.
Our main customer is Toyota, but we're adding the Big 3 and others slowly but, our managements mindset has been so Toyota based that our people aren't really looking for information :thanx: .
If you happen to know deadlines for the following and any additional OEMs I'd appreciate it.

DCX - July 2004 (TS)
General Motors - Dec 2006 (TS)
Ford Motor - Dec 2006 (TS)

Toyota - certification not required but, their SQAM manual references QS9000 which I take to mean you don't need to pay for a cerificate but, need to meet the requirements nonetheless.
Honda - ??? ISO9001:2000 Certification or compliance
Nissan - ??? (ISO9001 or TS)

Peugeot/Citroen - July 2004 Compliance or Cerification (ISO9001 or TS)
Renault - July 2004 Cmpliance or certification
Fiat - ???
Volkswagon
BMW - ???

Any feedback you can provide will be helpful

By UL's interpretation only customers requiring their suppliers to be ISO/TS 16949 registered are considered "subscribing" companies. Therefore companies that don't require registration and use words like "prefer", "accept", "encourage", etc.... are defined as non-subscribing and their requirements do not have to be included in the TS quality system. This narrows the scope some. I hope it helps.

I have attached UL's latest tool on this.

With regards to MarilynJ6354 posting, This sounds like a great idea to use with your customers, would you be willing to share an example of this form template?

New FORD CSR:
Ford Motor Company Customer-Specific Requirements For Use with ISO/TS 16949:2002 (http://www.iaob.org/pdfs/FordspecTS2nd_30_October_2006.pdf) Posted on 10/30/2006

Customer Specific Requirements of Mercedes Benz Car Group - October 05, 2005 (http://www.iaob.org/pdfs/MCG_Customer_Specific_Requirements_05_10_2005.pdf) Posted on 11/02/2006

IOAB.org posts all of the "Big 3" customer specific requirements. If your TS certified, you should be checking this site on a monthly basis for up dates and such.