Here's a little ditty from the March Quality Digest written by James Harrington. Once again, I don't know if it's accessible if you are not a subscriber, so if most of you can't view this, please let me know and I'll quit posting the links.

http://www.qualitydigest.com/currentmag/columnists/jharrington.shtml

Discussion????

Bill

Just to tell you that it is visible to all. Keep on posting
The discussion later!

Ok, I am not from the automotive industry, but have been a "car guy" for as long as I can remember, and am a sometime drag racer and autocrosser.

Where are the disconnects? It seems to me, from this forum, that the big 3 (particularly Ford?) are difficult to work with. Is it possible that the system is built around satisfying itself, instead of the customers?

As far as quality of design goes, the number of highly-focused choices offered the consumer today are mind-boggling, and some of the choices even are good at more than one thing (witness the SUV/Pickup, for example).

But, the article Bill gave us cites the number of defects per car. Even Lexus has more than 1. I wonder how the defects/car correlates with overall satisfaction? And, how often are these defects related to design, and how often are they related to the odd badly-formed part or missed assembly step?

Auto folks, I really am interested in your opinions on this...

Craig

This article compares to the same articles published in the 80's at the on-set of TQM. It is scary to think that with all the emphasis we place on standards and specifications related to quality that, in the past 25 years we have not improved; either in the the market place or in the quality of product.
With TS2,we have only just begun, but stick around, there is another blip on the screen.

This article compares to the same articles published in the 80's at the on-set of TQM. It is scary to think that with all the emphasis we place on standards and specifications related to quality that, in the past 25 years we have not improved; either in the the market place or in the quality of product.


(I'm not in automotive either...but have been in the past.)

I had a conversation with my boyfriend not too long ago about this - I was trying to explain to him exactly what QS was all about and where it came from. (He's in urban planning, and so doesn't get much exposure to ISO stuff.) Anyway, it came up b/c he's currently car-shopping...and had crossed domestic cars off the list (as in, he didn't even look at any).

It really *is* scary to think of the efforts that North America puts into quality, with all of the standards and specs...yet despite all that, he'll *still* be driving his new Honda off the lot this afternoon. What are we doing wrong?

(I'm not in automotive either...but have been in the past.)

I had a conversation with my boyfriend not too long ago about this - I was trying to explain to him exactly what QS was all about and where it came from. (He's in urban planning, and so doesn't get much exposure to ISO stuff.) Anyway, it came up b/c he's currently car-shopping...and had crossed domestic cars off the list (as in, he didn't even look at any).

It really *is* scary to think of the efforts that North America puts into quality, with all of the standards and specs...yet despite all that, he'll *still* be driving his new Honda off the lot this afternoon. What are we doing wrong?
Rachel, your boyfriend may be surprised to find out that his Honda was made in the US. I don't know if they make them in Canada. I once bought an Olds made in Canada.

Rachel, your boyfriend may be surprised to find out that his Honda was made in the US. I don't know if they make them in Canada. I once bought an Olds made in Canada.

Are they not designed overseas, though? I know there's an assembly plant in Alliston (north of Toronto) but the designs originate from overseas, do they not?

In any event - even though they are assembled in Canada - why the discrepancies in ratings?

This article compares to the same articles published in the 80's at the on-set of TQM. It is scary to think that with all the emphasis we place on standards and specifications related to quality that, in the past 25 years we have not improved; either in the the market place or in the quality of product.
With TS2,we have only just begun, but stick around, there is another blip on the screen.

Sam, I beg to differ. I believe that the American Automotive Industry is much better now, than it was 20 years ago. However, quality is a moving target as we all know. The Japanese Automotive Industry, especially, due to cultural issues drive continual improvement FASTER than others.

Check http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/special/tps/tps.html

Another aspect that cannot be overlooked is the complexity of the auto over the last 20 years. The systems are more complicated and have many more components than in the past. This leads to more opportunities for defects.

Sometimes I have to question if some of the problem is not atributable to perception more than reality. As an example: I have a friend that is very interested in a Toyota Matrix, but would not even considera a Pontiac Vibe because "it's American made".

Now I don't know how many of you are familiar with these models, but they are both manufactured on the same assembly line and for the most part are the same car (differences only in style such as front and rear end caps, etc.).

I also have to question if one of the contributors to differences in product quality between a Japanese manufactured vehicle and an American made one could be the almost religious consistency that the Japanese worker maintains in the assembly process -Vs- the American worker's virtual disdain for rules, restrictions, and instructions (not that we take exception to order, but that we have the perception that these rules et cetera will squelch our inventiveness/uniqueness). I see this in many areas where the worker feels that they don't have to pay much attention to their work, since they have been doing it so long that they virtually know it by heart. It is in those situations that mistakes are made.
:2cents:

I see this in many areas where the worker feels that they don't have to pay much attention to their work, since they have been doing it so long that they virtually know it by heart. It is in those situations that mistakes are made.
:2cents:

I have to agree totally. . . I think one of the other issues was/is a reluctance to embrace Total Quality. . .right to the point of quality decision making. . . I believe that the 3 main problems with industry were expressed by Deming very well. The 3 M's.

I also believe that the American auto inductry has made great strides in improving quality. . . I had a 1953 Chevy that lasted about 80,000 miles. . a 1969 GTO that went 89,000. . . a 1885 Grand Prix that lasted 185,000. . . and now have a 1996 Blazer that is at 160,000 and still running smooth as ever, and everything works. . .no major repairs at all. . . just the normal fluids, battery, brakes, and shocks. . . however, the alternator died at 135,000. . . that was due to a battery that wouldn't keep a charge. I'm shooting for 300K with this one!

We're going in the right direction, it will take more time . . . but I do not believe that more stringent specifications or standards are the answer. Culture change is a factor. . . when the Big 3 decide to play by their own rules, and also walk the partnering talk, we may feel less repressed. . . "Specification without representation is Tyrany" :lmao:

. . . a 1885 Grand Prix that lasted 185,000

Wow! An 1885 Grand Prix. Was that a Classic or what? :agree1:

Sorry, couldn't resist. Not that I would ever have a typo. Are you going to do an 8-D on this?

Taz!, I hope you realize that I'm doing this stictly in fun. Your post is a good one, and you do make valid points. Back in the 70's 50K was about the limit. 100K was unheard of. Now, you don't even change the plugs until then. But then again, I think the 50's and 60's had the coolist looking vehicles. :cool: