6S BB training chance&SQE job offer from one of Biggest Auto supplier which one would you choose??
I am not sure if some would be interested in my story took placed one month ago, which I struggle with it so long and could not get out from it still now. Here is the story if you like.
I have been worked in quality field for around 9 years, I am so glad to have about 6 years work experience in automotive industrial until I joined the company that I currently work for. I would like to say that I could not enjoy my work totally, even through I got a lot--- like salary, training chance, practical chance etc. Of course, I also contribute a lot. (9k/14k set up…… ). But when look ahead I would say my further/dream is to get into auto field. Fortunately/or unfortunately, I get a chance to join one of biggest Auto supplier as SQE. My boss persuaded me to stay and promise to give me chance for BB training, salary raise and promotion, when he got to know my resign. On the other hand, the HR from that company seems to be impatient a little bit for my question, because the salary they provided is not competitive comparing with my income and I have to move to another city for that job. Distinct feeling on two sides,
BB training VS SQE, Nameless company VS Fortune 500 company, favor from my current boss VS personnel career
It is a difficult decision for me but might be easier if:
The HR manager could be kind a little bit
My boss could give up to persuade
I could be unmoved
…………..

I would like to say I have made a stupid decision on impulse, because I finally did not take that job. Look backward, I think I lost a chance I will never get again. So I would like to know, what would you do if you are in the same situation. Really hope I could get some opinion on this situation.

Thanks
Jaco

I don't know about the job market in Cina, but I would keep in mind future job security. Going with a Fortune 500 is nice, but they also have layoffs and cut backs, plus some times in bigger companies there is not a cohesive group of people. They are trying to out do each other for recognition and promotions. If you like where you live, your job and your boss, and have a chance to grow, why leave. If you are currently with a cohesive management team that is proactive, then stay where you are now. Do you have a family?
What are their thoughts?

First of all, ralphsulser thanks for your response on this topic!!! :thanks:
I don't know about the job market in Cina,
For the job market in China I think it now might be a seller's market, which means there are lots of job opportunity for application. But I do not know how long this situation will keep going.
but I would keep in mind future job security.
For me,the most important fact in mind for my career is favorite/grow. Because it is hard to define the standard for job security. If we only consider job security, it would make me feel better to work for a bigger company. On the other hand, it is also hard to find the fully cohesive management team, as you said every body is trying to out do each other for recognition and promotions. I think none do not like that. To me, I just could say I have a good boss now.
For favorite of my career, getting back into auto industrial absolutely should be my only goal. And what I could learn in my current company is six sigma, but I notice that six sigma in auto industrial get very lower respect than in other side. And tools listed six sigma also are using in many ways, especially for people in work in auto industrial. Even though we do not give the name as 6s. In the other words, I am not sure if it is really a grow chance or not?
Do you have a family?
What are their thoughts?


Of course, I do have a family and fortunately I could get more support from them than other person do. I heard most comment voice from them is, every thing is up to you and do not care what we think.

Anyway, thank to share your opinion. And you are the only one in the world, who could give me some thoughts besides my friends and family.

Jaco, i work for a fortune500 company and i can tell you its not all sunshine and roses. Do bear in mind that these companies are in the spotlight and therefore, some management decisions just don't make sense to sensible people. Having said that, i would go for it if you want to build a career, just because of the fact that a fortune500 will give you a complete different view on the business and just working in that environment, will develop many of your skills. This is the way to go if you are looking for a career.

If you want job security and are not afraid of getting stuck in your company/working environment, stay with your current and take the offer.

On the other hand, i do not believe that 6 sigma is the future, especially not in automotive. I have seen more 6 sigma exercises go wrong than right. Our business is just not precise enough to apply 6 sigma. I think it will die a slow silent death (let the flaming begin :tg: )

Jaco,
Based on your reasoning and future aspirations, I am going to assume you would like to make the change to the Fortune 500 company. I would suggest that you have what it takes to grow with that corporation, and the desire to do so. My opinion is then that you should go for it. Wish you all the best, and please let us know how it works out for you. :)

:thanks: It is very happy to end up this thread by having your two kind replies, especially from two veterans in quality. I could have nice weekend, as I can finally get out now.
Thanks again, ralphsulser and DDaenen1. I will try to talk to my boss, and see if the HR manager still remember me. :biglaugh:

It has been my pleasure :)

Jaco -- if you are still thinking about this, let me add another consideration. I am not sure whether this is true for Chinese firms, but it is typical of my experience in North America.

If the six sigma is properly implemented, an experienced black belt will be actively leading quality improvements, saving the company money and improving customer satisfaction. These are both gratifying for your own job satisfaction, and hopefully leading to further recognition by management.

Some supplier quality engineers are doing the same thing on their company's behalf at supplier locations.

Generally, though, It is difficult for the supplier quality engineer to achieve the same types of improvements.

Generally, the supplier quality engineer will spend a lot of time outside their expertise (because they must support many different suppliers) and may not be able to develop the specific skills and background to make major contributions.

I am sure that some of our colleagues here at the Cove are supplier quality engineers, and judging by the contributions I can tell that many of them are far better professionals than the "typical" SQE.

So all in all, I would think strongly about taking the opportunity to achieve direct quality improvements where you are right now. Six Sigma may provide you some additional tools and techniques, but don't wait... work with your management to achieve improvements here and now.

If they don't support you... then think about moving on to another situation.

Best regards,

Brad

6S BB training chance&SQE job offer from one of Biggest Auto supplier which one would you choose??
I am not sure if some would be interested in my story took placed one month ago, which I struggle with it so long and could not get out from it still now.
Back in 1999 I interveiwed with Coors. I was rejected because I was 'Too Liberal'. So - You never know...

Back in 1999 I interveiwed with Coors. I was rejected because I was 'Too Liberal'. So - You never know...Well, Gee, Marc, in some of your writing in the past, you'd be too liberal for the Hyannisport crew, so it's no big surprise that the rock-bound conservatives from Colorado would find you too liberal.

Brad,
Thanks for sharing your thought on this topic. In fact I finally did not move to the fortunate 500 I have been dreaming of. You may be surprised if you know the season caused me to stay. I did not say anything, when my boss said, “I would not let you go unless you insist to leave.” Considering I have got a lot in current company (e.g. my salary double of others in same level), also my leave will be a great impact on dept operation. I cannot be too selfish, even though my aspiration in career not allow me to stay here too long. After all, it is kinda sad to miss the chance to get into the company that I really respected. So I will take for one/or two years to learn more on auto besides Six Sigma, then try to back into auto industrial (if that fortunate 500 still have some place, I will jump into by whatever means).

I am not sure whether this is true for Chinese firms, but it is typical of my experience in North America.
I totally agree with you thought on Six Sigma and willing to learn & practise to make quality improvement(also myself).
IMO, two facts will affected the popularity of Six Sigma
--- Region/country
I noticed that the most of the favorers of Six Sigma are come from US, e.g. GE, Honeywell…
And currently Six Sigma seems to become more and more popular in Asia, just like India, Singapore, China etc.
Comparing with number of the American firms that have conducted Six Sigma, the European company conducted Six Sigma would be obviously less than in North America. I do not know if some of you aware of one Six Sigma consultant firm in US, which named as BMG, it has 9 divisions in the world, but none in Europe. Why? Obviously, horrible market for Six Sigma in Europe.
--- Industrial/field
In computer hardware and electronic/semiconductor industrial, Six Sigma is the most popular tool for improving. But in auto industrial, especially the OEM, it seems to be less of respect.

So I am not sure if BB would be really helpful for my career development, especially for joining big auto firm. Anyway, thanks all of you to share your valuable thoughts. :)


Back in 1999 I interveiwed with Coors. I was rejected because I was 'Too Liberal'. So - You never know...
I am also interest in your story, would you like to share with us.

Well, Gee, Marc, in some of your writing in the past, you'd be too liberal for the Hyannisport crew, so it's no big surprise that the rock-bound conservatives from Colorado would find you too liberal.
I wouldn't want to work for a company which hires based upon political beliefs any more than I would one that hires based upon religion. Oh, well... Just ol' liberal me talkin'!

If the six sigma is properly implemented, an experienced black belt will be actively leading quality improvements, saving the company money and improving customer satisfaction. These are both gratifying for your own job satisfaction, and hopefully leading to further recognition by management.Brad

Brad,

My company (in Australia) would more likely take on Six Sigma if it was promoted as a Business Improvement System rather than a Quality Improvement System. I looked at a site recently and found this quote:
What Is Six Sigma?
Six Sigma is a rigorous and disciplined methodology that uses data and statistical analysis to measure and improve a company's operational performance by identifying and eliminating "defects" in manufacturing and service-related processes. Commonly defined as 3.4 defects per million opportunities, Six Sigma can be defined and understood at three distinct levels: metric, methodology and philosophy... . Most of the time all I see is mention of Quality Improvements, and in the past they have not always been quantative.

I think whilst Australia has the highest accreditation rate per business capita in the world, it has been bitten by too many Quality Bugs & Catch phrases and may see Six Sigma as yet another Coca Cola Yo-Yo or Frisbee craze. A few of the larger companies and internationals are taking it on board and we may yet see a general progression toward it but it too may end up on the scrap heap of Kaizen, 5S, 8D,Kepner Tregoe (We stared that a few years ago and now it is dead), Guru Seminars, Videos or How to Books (Juran, Crosby, Deming and Co). I know I may sound a bit cynical but after you have collected the videos, seen the slide show and read the book the impetus usually dies away unless you have one of those rare General Managers (etc) that have Passion, Vision and Commitment to keep it and everyone else on the path. I beat my chest and introduce the new, whilst trying to maintain the norm only, to be beaten down by competing priorities, manning downgrades and capital expenditures that wipe away my budget. Alas poor me....Sorry, but I will once again decend from my Soap Box and get back to the grind stone.
Yours in Quality :soap:

Greg B

6S BB training chance&SQE job offer from one of Biggest Auto supplier which one would you choose??
I am not sure if some would be interested in my story took placed one month ago, which I struggle with it so long and could not get out from it still now. Here is the story if you like.
.......................................


Dear friends,
I know it has been a very wordy post, but I just like to share my lesson that I learnt from this story, since I do not wanna some one else would “stick in the same mud” as I did. To make it more presentable, I would like to add more information about my story. Firstly, the big auto supplier, which I mentioned above, is Bosch. I could say it has pretty good reputation in China. And the SQE position that they offered is belong to its headquarters in China. And as I mentioned in my first post, I did not take the SQE offer as
1. a six sigma BB training chance
2. promotion and salary raise promise for my stay
3. my boss might be frustrated to find right one to handle my work in a very short time
4. at same time, the communication with HR was not very inspirer as what I like

But it obviously was not the ending of my story by then. As times go on, my longing for SQE and auto field get more and more stronger. I can not believe how strong the feeling is, I think I could never get rid off it. I can not enjoy my work at all. So there was a ridiculous came into my mind, maybe I could apply for this position again (it is common in China, that it takes company more half a year to find right person). So I pick up the phone to call the HR, but I was told the position was closed and no longer available for application. Then my story concluded as a tragical ending.

So my dear friends, there might be lots of choices in career life, but when you do a choice pls think about what is the thing what you really wanted in your mind and heart. Because make a decision is easy for every one, but the good opportunity that you really enjoy might not often occur in your career. Income and training chance might be important for you, but more important thing is not to give up to stick the goal you set in your mind.


Jaco.

Jaco, I'm sorry you regret your decision not to make the move, but it is not tragic as you think. You still have a good job, and sounds like a good companu and boss. I assume you are are still a young man with plenty of opportunity in your future. Be positive and continue to gain beneficial experience and training and you will get additional opportunities. Fortune 500 companies are not all that glamorous, been there, done that. Don't look back at what might have been, and what if. Look forward at what you can do and how you may be able to grow into more responsibility at your present company. "Nothing is constant except change"

Wish you the best

Jaco, I'm sorry you regret your decision not to make the move, but it is not tragic as you think. You still have a good job, and sounds like a good companu and boss. I assume you are are still a young man with plenty of opportunity in your future. Be positive and continue to gain beneficial experience and training and you will get additional opportunities. Fortune 500 companies are not all that glamorous, been there, done that. Don't look back at what might have been, and what if. Look forward at what you can do and how you may be able to grow into more responsibility at your present company. "Nothing is constant except change"

Wish you the best

Hi ralphsulser,
Thanks for your kind reply, :thanks: It reminds me that I should be positive.Otherwise, I will have no chance to improve anymore. This is a very important requirement for professional(espesially for a young man like me) to keep the positive attitude on. Then I must stand up and look forward for my future!
Thanks again

Jaco