It is my opinion from observations that there is a close relationship between ISO 9001:2000, ISO/TS16949 and Lean Manufacturing. Was I only dreaming it? I'd like someone elses take on it?


:magic:

Please share with me the similarities between ISO and Lean?

I don't see it.

ISO and TS.....yes of course. ISO is the baseline and TS is just adding the specifcs to the automotive industry. (great system)

There is a note to clause 6.3.1 (Plant, facility, and equipment planning) that states, "These requirements SHOULD focus on lean manufacturing principles..." I think we all know, if the standard says something "SHOULD" be done then auditors will look for it. Good pick up AMR1234, the TS Standard does indeed incorporate Lean principles.

Perhaps the use of word linkage is incorrectly applied. Perhaps, tools and building blocks would be more appropriate. To me, ISO/TS16949 is complimented by Lean Manufacturing, or visa versa. :bonk:

There is a note to clause 6.3.1 (Plant, facility, and equipment planning) that states, "These requirements SHOULD focus on lean manufacturing principles..." I think we all know, if the standard says something "SHOULD" be done then auditors will look for it. Good pick up AMR1234, the TS Standard does indeed incorporate Lean principles.


6.3.1 in the 9001:2000 standard ?

9001:2000 = conformity to requirements
Lean = deliver value at the least cost

ISO procedures, audits, and all the other documentation = NON VALUE

TS and ISO are going in the right directions. The supplier 8D is a great system used in lean and TS. The focus on processes in the 9001:2000 is part process mapping.

No...6.3.1 in TS 16949. It is a supplement to ISO 9k2k.

No...6.3.1 in TS 16949. It is a supplement to ISO 9k2k.

yes I know. I passed a registartion audit last month.

But I thought the question was also about ISO 9001:2000, maybe I was wrong. ,

I think there is a more subtle reference also. . . process efficiency. ISO and TS both are looking at process efficiency, and you can use an extention of that to look at all processes not just manufacturing. The ultimate goal is customer satisfaction. . . leaning out a manufacturing process creating a larger margin will allow for cost cutting in the supply chain. THAT is really the stealth goal there.

The techniques can be applied in a variety of ways.

yes I know. I passed a registartion audit last month.

I certainly didn't mean to talk down to you. If you took it that way, I apologize.

But I thought the question was also about ISO 9001:2000, maybe I was wrong. ,

The title of the thread was for all three: "Linkage of ISO 9001:2000, ISO/TS 16949 and Lean Manufacturing"

So tell me the linkage between ISO 9001:2000 and Lean?

The best ISO system does not equal an effectively implemented lean manufacturing environment.

And I think the best thing is that lean reduces rejects.

So tell me the linkage between ISO 9001:2000 and Lean?

The best ISO system does not equal an effectively implemented lean manufacturing environment.

And I think the best thing is that lean reduces rejects.

In my opinion, lean and QMS are hard, yet easy to link. They compliment each other, but have two totally different scopes. They are tied together, but can be applied separately. Having one does not mean you have the other. It is also hard to have one with none of the other. As Taz stated, process efficiency is a component of both. By attacking the 8 forms of waste, you will apply principles that lead to lower rework/reject rates.

Another linkage is that both hold principles that are beneficial for the company.

Good points but the forward started with :"It is my opinion from observations that there is a close relationship between ISO 9001:2000, ISO/TS16949 and Lean Manufacturing. "


Which there is not a close relationship. As you said " they have two different scopes"

As I said " ISO = conformity to the requirements and Lean = deliver value the least possible cost"

And as I said. . . direct link in efficiency

Which there is not a close relationship. As you said " they have two different scopes"

Federal law, State law and City ordinances all have different scopes, yet there is a very close relationship between them.



As I said " ISO = conformity to the requirements and Lean = deliver value the least possible cost"

ISO is more than just conformity to the requirements. It is getting an organization to look at itself and discovering ways it can be better. That is why there is so much emphasis on continual improvement, enhancing customer satisfaction, and process improvement (as Taz pointed out).

Lean is more than just cutting cost. It too, places emphasis on continual improvement, enhancing customer satisfaction, and process improvement.

Both want you to look at your business with the eye for improvement. If you are building a house, you need saws and hammers.

Again:

Lean = deliver value (value = more then money) at the least cost.


ISO = procedures , policys, audits, registars, etc= WASTE

We will agree to disagree.

But all I can say is that the ISO 9001:2000 is just a money making tool and I'm glad that it is.
The canned manuals the BS relationships between consultants and registrars..Just a waste. But if they keep the money coming in then ****....Its time for AS.

Lean manufacturing = the real change of people, processes, and tech.

I'm not so sure we disagree, as much as we have a difference in perception. I see ISO as great process for improving your business. I'm not talking about registration, but in application. It appears though you look at it an evil necessity, based on your comment below.


But all I can say is that the ISO 9001:2000 is just a money making tool and I'm glad that it is.
The canned manuals the BS relationships between consultants and registrars..Just a waste. But if they keep the money coming in then ****....Its time for AS.

Lean manufacturing = the real change of people, processes, and tech.


With both ISO and Lean, there are some non-value added activities. While the customer doesn't pay for intenal auditing, management review, etc., neither do they pay for lean Kaizen events. But not all non-value added activities need to be eliminated. Payroll is also non-value added.

I have worked with companies that have applied ISO, without becoming registered. They saw "value" (benefit) in hiring a consultant to assist them in getting the most out of their QMS. In one case alone, we figured that applying an ISO 9001-based QMS, the company saved over $100,000 in one year! They were making a profit by accident, and a good QMS allowed them to be a bit more deliberate.

I've also worked with companies to apply lean principles. Yes, even lean manufacturing uses consultants. And there is even a standard to become registered to. I've also seen companies that put soooo much effort in the administration of lean, that they waste most of their gains.

Perhaps its not the tool, but the user.

But back to the original question. Is there a close relationship? Yep! They are both tools in the tool box of business improvement (so is 6 Sigma).

Payroll is a non-vaule activity, but is it possible to streamline the payroll process to make is cost less to perform the task?
Like I said before ISO 9001:2000 and TS are coming around to lean.The adoption of process mapping and the reduction in documentation are lean principles.
So we might disagree regarding a firm link and we can both produce 100's of examples. the answer is this. Whatever system (or combo of) that makes $ is a good system.

Whatever system (or combo of) that makes $ is a good system.

Come on! With logic like that what's left to argue? :agree:

[FONT=Arial Black]After perform the ISO9001:2000, when we transfer to TS, there are some questions to confuse us which will be strengthen.

I would want to get some information on it, I hope I would have a good communication with you just from everywhere.[/FON :) T]