Hi there,

So I was recently given the task of looking into IMDS - what it is, what the requirements are, how it impacts the business, etc. I've run a quick search both here and in Google. Here, I didn't find anything. (Maybe I'm not looking in the right place!) On the Web, I found that IMDS is related to this ELV-1 thing...and ELV-1 is basically a life-cycle assessment of sorts...and...well...that's all I know.

Anyone care to shed some light? Any valuable weblinks (i.e., love) that Google isn't sharing with me?

Cheers,
-R.

Man, it's amazing how Google searches can vary from one attempt to another - or depending on the word order and so on...

I just found a kick :ca: site on IMDS.

But, still, if anyone cares to shed any more light...

try
http://www.mdsystem.com/html/en/home_en.htm
Basically, you enter the chemical content of the individual part into the database with an ID number. When you PPAP, include the ID number on the PSW. The car manufacturer can add up all the supplier's data and has a list of the chemical content of the vehicle. There is a bit more to it than that but for starters..........

Thanks, Hermann...that was the site I found, and it was really good.

Does anyone have an example of an IMDS report? What exactly are we expected to fill in here?

http://www.gmw3059.com

This is the GM site with info and guidance to the IMDS, yuou do not have to be a GM supplier but need to register.

I had some experience about 3 years ago and it was very complicated and the guidance was limited. I have heared that it is still the same.

Good luck.

I handle the IMDS for our company and I agree with Howard. There is very little guidance and it can get very complicated.

Dave

I use the IMDS about two times a month. As with any software there are always changes. I have found the IMDS help desk to be extremely helpful, to the point that they will walk you through a creation process. If you click on "help" you find a complete set of instructions.
Also each OEM has their own set of guidelines, just like TS2. IMO the confusion factor is a result of OEM methods.

Agreed Sam.

I am continually revising the wording to suit one of the OEMs then hearing something else from another.

Dave

Thanks everyone...

Does anyone know of any independent training courses offered in the Toronto area on IMDS?

Cheers,
-R.

Strategic Environmental Management Ltd (SEML) in Great Britain (website: www.mdsmap.com) offers training in Ann Arbor MI.
http://services.mdsystem.com/training.en.jsp

Their American partner for training is Tetra Tech Inc., in Ann Arbor, http://industrial.tetratech.com/

There don't seem to be any classes available in Canada, although there is the option for online training: http://www.imds-elearning.com/

About 2 years ago, when IMDS was being launched, there was a lot of training being offered in a lot of locations. By 2003, most of the Tier 1 suppliers were done and it was mostly Tier 2 suppliers taking training.

I'm just getting into IMDS reporting myself, to help the program administrator for our division. She took the MDSMap training and will be walking me through my first submissions, including guiding me to the modules she has already created. :mg:

B.G. Wiehle

Rachel,

IMDS, The International Material Data System can be accessed at www.mdsystem.com. Training is available in classroom formatt (look in public pages) or online at www.imds-elearning.com.

My organization does offer information and services which can be found at www.mdsmap.com.

If I can be of help just let me know my email is harden@mdsmap.com

Thanks,

Chris Harden

Hello all,

So I've completed an online training course and am now trying to prepare our company's first IMDS. The course was alright - although I found that the course, and all of the literature, is very much geared toward "component" reports - which is off the mark for us, seeing as we are a manufacturer of bulk chemical - and the nature of our product means that we have to report on reaction products and not based on the bill of materials as they say. But no matter - that's a different beast.

Using the training database, I prepared some fake reports for one of our products that needs to be reported. The first time I prepared the report, there was one component that was marked "duty-to-declare". I went to create the real report a few days later, and all of a sudden this component is both "duty-to-declare" and "prohibited". I've been trying to get to the OEMs to get a list of what is prohibited by each manufacturer - and have heard nothing back.

Does anyone know where I can find an OEM-specific list of reportable substances? I'm looking for GM and DaimlerChrysler, specifically. I just want to know which of the OEMs have prohibited the substance that I need to report.

Thanks,
-R.

Anyone????Anyone????
It would be much appreciated...
Cheers,
-R.

Rachel,

Previously each company had their own list. GM had the GMW3059 available for purchase at www.gmw3059.com. Chrysler had CS-9003 which you probably want to contact a guy by the name of Denis Shamo at DCX to get.

Recently however most of the OEMs have agreed on the ILRS (International List of Restricted Substances) which is available on the IMDS public pages under lists (www.mdsystem.com).

By the way I am one of the developers of www.imds-elearning.com and the North American Program Manager of MDSMap. If you have further questions feel free to call (734) 213-5088 or email me (harden@mdsmap.com). I will be happy to answer any questions you might have.

Thanks,

Chris Harden

As a followup I thought everyone might be interested on October 6, 2004 the Automotive Industry Action Group (AIAG) will be hosting an IMDS summit in Novi, MI.

I will attach the flyer to this posting. Contact AIAG to attend.

Thanks,

Chris Harden

Thanks Chris,

My concern is with the "D/P" classification. If I understand that correctly, it means that the substance is "duty-to-declare" for all OEMs but "prohibited" only by some. While this is obviously not going to change our report (if it's duty-to-declare, then it's duty-to-declare - no getting around that!), it would be nice to know what we're dipping our toes into before we submit this report to a customer...and find out from them that our material is blacklisted.



Cheers,
-R.

Rachel,

Previously each company had their own list. GM had the GMW3059 available for purchase at www.gmw3059.com. Chrysler had CS-9003 which you probably want to contact a guy by the name of Denis Shamo at DCX to get.

Recently however most of the OEMs have agreed on the ILRS (International List of Restricted Substances) which is available on the IMDS public pages under lists (www.mdsystem.com).



At the GM site http://www.gmw3059.com/ after you regiter, for free you can download for free the lists

Okay, this is ridiculous... :soap:

I am trying to prepare this flippin' IMDS report and I have a substance marked "D/P" - meaning that some manufacturers prohibit it but they all want to know it's in there. So either way I have to report it - but I'd still like to know whether it's outright prohibited or just declarable. Automaker just told me that I can find the information from a standard available for purchase at their website. Ridiculous - if you expect people to participate in a system - actually, if you're making it a requirement that it be followed - the $50 that you're charging me to purchase your document is downright ridiculous.

Rachel:
I am curious as to how you are doing with this submission process? Have you been rejected or accepted on your submissions?

Also - TO ANYONE - where may I locate a complete material breakdown of plastic resin and concentrate substances - for FREE. My company will not purchase additional material subscriptions to meet this IMDS requirement. MSDS sheets soometimes are not broken down to the minute elements being asked of me. The material cert from the manufacturer does not have ALL the elements - Trade Secrets and all that stuff. What I am asking for is the following:

EX #1: Polypro Natural MDK 323 (not an actual material, but close enough)

this is what makes up this material
Nickle 10%
Carbon 5%
Zinc 2%..........etc....

EX #2: Concentrate AES Exxon Black

this is what makes up this material
Nickle 10%
Carbon 5%
Zinc 2%..........etc....

I have been rejected by my customer because the material CAS is not "good enough" and they required a complete material breakdown of resin and concentrate. I am not a chemist nor a metalurgist guru. But my lack of training and know-how should not jeopardise a PPAP submission. That's why the internet is so popular... :biglaugh:

Patiently awaiting your reply....

Pamela aka "ISO-Stupid"

Okay, this is ridiculous... :soap:

I am trying to prepare this flippin' IMDS report and I have a substance marked "D/P" - meaning that some manufacturers prohibit it but they all want to know it's in there. So either way I have to report it - but I'd still like to know whether it's outright prohibited or just declarable. Automaker just told me that I can find the information from a standard available for purchase at their website. Ridiculous - if you expect people to participate in a system - actually, if you're making it a requirement that it be followed - the $50 that you're charging me to purchase your document is downright ridiculous.I agree that charging a supplier for a copy of the requirements is akin to a kid charging the candy store money for a list of the candy he "might" buy. That practice of charging a copy fee for blueprints almost always made the fee refundable if the copies were returned intact. In the world of "free" instant copies via file transfers, that kind of practice is hoplessly archaic.

Pamela,

The best source for a chemical breakdown of a plastic is usually the supplier of the plastic. If however they won't give any information try using general information. For example if you know you have a polypropylene plastic and the MSDS states 5% carbon, 15% glass fiber and nothing else a best estimate for the material would be:

80% polypropylene
5% Carbon
15% glass fibre

One of the best sources I have found for material information is www.matweb.com (however this one is limited for plastics). If you have any questions just let me know.

Chris Harden
MDSMap
734 213-5088
harden@mdsmap.com

You can find a complete listing of the International List of Reportable Substances in the recommendations page of the IMDS.

I agree that charging a supplier for a copy of the requirements is akin to a kid charging the candy store money for a list of the candy he "might" buy. That practice of charging a copy fee for blueprints almost always made the fee refundable if the copies were returned intact. In the world of "free" instant copies via file transfers, that kind of practice is hoplessly archaic.

Try going to your suppliers of the materials you use in your components. Companies such as DuPont will offer 'published' (free to all) MDS for use in a node or module. For example, I have received submissions containing a nickle alloy. This may contain nickle along with zinc. As far as I know the OEMs know that zinc is a basic substance. If you are getting rejected because of a lack of breakdown of basic substances then your customer needs some training.

I wonder if anyone out here can tell me what a fulltime ELV/IMDS Coordinator should be making for a wage?

This is only my opinion, but a somewhat informed one, as I am the IMDS co-ordinator for our company (as well as a lot of other hats).

The IMDS position is essentially clerical in nature; it requires patience (I absolutely -=HATE=- the delay online to Europe), attention to detail, some customer management skills (when dealing with suppliers), and obviously some computer experience.

Whatever the going rate for a mid-level secretarial assistant is in your area would probably be appropriate for MOST companies.

However, there will always be exceptions; an IMDS co-ordinator for a major plastics manufacturer, or a Tier I supplier of a complete system, might have a totally different take on this :-)

I would agree with previous assessment. The real question is "are you the IMDS Coordinator which is a clerical position or do you take on responsibility for all product compliance and material content reporting?" This is a much higher level of responsibility.

If you need more information on ELV, IMDS, WEEE, RoHS or REACH you may want to go to www.mdsmap.com.

Thanks,

ChrisHarden

Okay, this is ridiculous... :soap:

I am trying to prepare this flippin' IMDS report and I have a substance marked "D/P" - meaning that some manufacturers prohibit it but they all want to know it's in there. So either way I have to report it - but I'd still like to know whether it's outright prohibited or just declarable. Automaker just told me that I can find the information from a standard available for purchase at their website. Ridiculous - if you expect people to participate in a system - actually, if you're making it a requirement that it be followed - the $50 that you're charging me to purchase your document is downright ridiculous.

If it states "Prohibited" then it is prohibited. However, you need to review the substance list of each customer. It may only be prohibited in Europe or it may be prohibited after a certain date. They all have different interpretations. Also read the "Recommendations" in the left bar of the IMDS screen.
As for ELV, it is not addressed specifically by the IMDS. ELV pertains primarily to the Heavy Metals. Refer to Directive 2000-53-EU ELV and 2002-525 ELV Annex II.

Rachel:
I am curious as to how you are doing with this submission process? Have you been rejected or accepted on your submissions?

Also - TO ANYONE - where may I locate a complete material breakdown of plastic resin and concentrate substances - for FREE. My company will not purchase additional material subscriptions to meet this IMDS requirement. MSDS sheets soometimes are not broken down to the minute elements being asked of me. The material cert from the manufacturer does not have ALL the elements - Trade Secrets and all that stuff. What I am asking for is the following:

EX #1: Polypro Natural MDK 323 (not an actual material, but close enough)

this is what makes up this material
Nickle 10%
Carbon 5%
Zinc 2%..........etc....

EX #2: Concentrate AES Exxon Black

this is what makes up this material
Nickle 10%
Carbon 5%
Zinc 2%..........etc....

I have been rejected by my customer because the material CAS is not "good enough" and they required a complete material breakdown of resin and concentrate. I am not a chemist nor a metalurgist guru. But my lack of training and know-how should not jeopardise a PPAP submission. That's why the internet is so popular... :biglaugh:

Patiently awaiting your reply....

Pamela aka "ISO-Stupid"

It is the manufacturers responsibility to furnish you with a complete breakdown of ALL substances in the material that they supply. If certain materials are trade secrets then the manufacturer has to tell, in writing, you that a certain percentage of this substance is "trade secret". I believe the "recommendations" has some guidance on this topic.

Below is the body of a letter that I send to each one of our suppliers.

"We need the following information;

- The chemical composition of each part number listed, including a
breakdown of stabilizers, pigments, additives and fire retardants where
used.

- Whether the material contains "azo dyes."

- the report for each item should provide; the substance name, CAS
number (if known), amount of substance in percent. The total percent of
each item should equal 100%.

Please either email or fax this information to me. If there are any
problems or questions please feel free to contact me.

Thank You"

I would agree with previous assessment. The real question is "are you the IMDS Coordinator which is a clerical position or do you take on responsibility for all product compliance and material content reporting?" This is a much higher level of responsibility.

If you need more information on ELV, IMDS, WEEE, RoHS or REACH you may want to go to www.mdsmap.com.

Thanks,

ChrisHarden

Thanks Chris for your assessment. I am called a 'coordinator' however I do have to be responsible for the product compliance along with the rest of the company but I am solely responsible for material content reporting of our company division which consists of five plants and over 35,000 components. We are primarily a tier 1 and 2 supplier. The PPAP is NOT approved unless I check off that the ELV data has been submitted and accepted. I was just looking for wage information because I fear I am being grossly underpaid at a $25,000 salary. What do you think?

From Greta: "I was just looking for wage information because I fear I am being grossly underpaid at a $25,000 salary. What do you think?"
:bigwave:
I am called an Engineering Administrator - $35k annually - Western Michigan
14 Years in the Computer Industry, including Human Resources - 6 years in Medical - 4 years in Plastic Injection Molding
Area of study: Business / Contract / Intellectual Property and Copyright Law; Business Management w/ Information Systems;
Gender, Conflict Mgmt and Communication studies (9 classes away from a BS - 12 classes away from a Masters) :o

These are the tasks I perform:
1. Weekly / Monthly reporting of PPMs all plants
2. Launch Purchasing; coordinate shipping, materials orders, and the like
3. Launch Accounting: tracking of all Launch expenses
4. Travel Coordinator: for 20+ people
5. Intranet Coordinator (ISO and TS docs and forms maintenance and
development) for all Plants (6 in all)
6 IMDS Coordinator for Launch and Plant level
7. Launch Human Resources: coordinating of interviews and interns; new
hires user access and hardware
8. IT Assistant for all Plants (6 in all)
9. CAD / Spin Fire Assistant

I report to the following departments:
1. Launch Tooling / Quality / Manufacturing / CAD
2. Corporate Quality
3. Corporate Human Resources
4. Corporate Sales
5. Miscellaneous Support to Plant level departments
6. Corporate Accounting


I am actually, by my title, a glorified administrative assistant - performing all mundane secretarial activities as well as those that no one else has time for. Since my company refuses to fully embrace that IMDS is here to stay I am developing an infracture that will utilize our company database system with Access so submissions are not so cumbersome - including OEM specifications and material breakdowns from suppliers. We also do consumer goods, and GE just sent out a letter to suppliers that IMDS submission will be a required of their equivilent PPAP system - I will most likely be performing those IMDS submissions as well.

As you may observe, I don't just perform IMDS - but that is my company's practice. I know "Uniform Color (Materials) has a dedicated staff for IMDS and they keep floating the responsibility around that staff - i.e., they have been reporting to Sales, Materials, Human Resources, etc; within a 2 year period." [out of context quoting] My point being, that companies really do not know what, where, to whom these IMDS Coordinators should be reporting - I bet they don't know what level of knowledge they should possess nor what pay scale to place them under as well.

This is a very new venue for businesses - only time will tell. I hope this gives you a guideline to follow. Also, refer to Monster dot com (and other major job placement dot coms) for other salary information in your field of expertise. They have aided me in my professional quests. :biglaugh:

Greta, there are many factors that influence what a company will pay. Try salary.com (http://salary.com/home/layoutscripts/homl_display.asp) to determine where you stand. If there is a large disparity, then you can act accordingly. I don't think anyone here can tell you what you should do, since only you know your circumstances.:2cents:

Rachel

IMDS has come a long way since 2 or 3 years ago. Hopefully you have found the http://www.mdsystem.com (http://) site to register. You will need to set-up your supplier base and make sure you identify your platform parts for each customer. Many of the customers want each individual part number entered. It makes life easier for them. The big 3 have declarable substance lists that identify which material is prohibited and which materials are restricted. In the system it's exactly how the word would define it. Prohibited must be removed immediately (some deadlines have been given by OEM's), Restricted means that there is a threshold of that substance that is permitted but you will need to check the ILRS or the Customer listing of the quantitites. There has been many deadlines that has swished by but because so many suppliers have not heard of it and so many OEMs did not take advantage of the infancy stage to prepare their STA's (SQA's) many of them do not know what to tell you. It is not difficult once you get in there. Tetra Tech has a beginner -to- advance training that is around 525.00. I will attach their flyer to the next post. I will attach a sample of a posting that I use. Please feel free to contact me and I will try to help you as much as possible. By the way are you in a group (have divisions) or is your company independent? Okay I don't know how to attach the document here (ha,ha,ha) but if you send me a personal reply I can send it to you by e-mail.

When you go to the MDSystem.com site go to the System logon area and click then you will see several hyperlinks. Select the one for Service information. Along the left hand side you will see a menu, select training and it will give you training information. There is a lady with Tetra Tech name Sonja Waite. She is very helpful, but the IMDS helpdesk has improved tremenedously as well. They will walk you through everything however they have been through reflective feedback training (BE PREPARED- HA,HA).

I have also outsourced my support to other companies but for the most part I try to talk them through it. The only time I have physically went to help was with a company that just did not have resources to do but wanted to pay for my support.

Just as an added note to those of us who have 'IMDS Co-ordinator' added to our job descriptions.

:nopity:

I have run into a problem with one of my customers, who has insisted that I remove certain chemicals which they feel will evaporate or flash off before they receive the parts.

The IMDS is supplied to me by my supplier, and I am not prepared at this time to change what they have advised me is the chemical composition of the product in question (rust inhibitor).

In addition to this, my supplier has declared 11.1% of his product to be 'undeclared inorganic' (i.e. trade secret). My customer's customer has set an arbitrary limit of 10% for undeclared substances, which is (as far as I know) not reflected anywhere in IMDS.

Just to set this into perspective, the TOTAL WEIGHT of the rust inhibitor on my part is 0.001g on a 125g part!!!!!

So, what do I do? My PPAP submission can't be approved without an approved IMDS submission, my IMDS submission can't be approved because it doesn't meet some theoretical/arbitrary limit, and in the meantime, we're not producing parts? And of course, it's all QUALITY'S fault!!!!!

If you are thinking of taking on the task of IMDS co-ordinator for your employer, be prepared to deal with this, and similar problems, on a day-to-day basis, on top of everything else.

As a long-overdue update --

Have submitted a small handful of MDSs to varous customers and all has gone well so far.

I do have a beef with this system, in that all of its examples and training are geared toward piece-wise assemblies - i.e., this red wire goes here, this capacitor goes there - and all of those pieces have a set "formulation". For those of us who are involved in the chemical industry - well, it's not that easy. What I sell to a customer (a reactive kit of chemicals) is as totally different material by the time it leaves their site. Also, some of these reactions are somewhat complex - i.e., we know what we're adding to the pot, and we know the general reaction products, but there are other elements that are not fully understood to the point where we can say with total certainty that *this* is our composition...know what I mean?

But, that's the nature of our business, I suppose. It seems that I'm the newest regulatory gofer around here - the latest is RoHS and WEEE - and because of the types of products that we sell, *none* of these directives and regulations are proving to be cookie-cutter to our products. :bonk: :frust:

On that pleasant note - have a good one, folks!
Cheers,
-R.

I know what you both mean. Rachel you have some very good points about the chemical composition. I also know first hand about the PPAP and ELV approval. I probably am that person whi makes you revise and reformulate to meet the new standards. I am that Coordinator who requires 90% declared.
I also know if you look in the recommendations listed in the IMDS, you'll find many valuable documents which clearly spell out the 'rules' which are accepted by the Steering Committee. The AIAG held an ELV/IMDS Summit in Novi, MI last October and I was fortunate enough to attend. It was extreemly informative. On the AIAG web site is the presentation of that summit. What's not in there is what was said. One thing that was said is that if we all follow the recommendations in IMDS we can be assured that our submissions will be accepted.

Personally, although it is a pain to measure, reduce and reformulate to meet European laws and the laws in five US states, it will help to create a better more cleaner and healthier place for our decendents.

If you haven't already heard, the next thing for elimination is bromated flame retardants. (BFR)

Good luck with your experiences with this directive. Perhaps our paths will meet on the road to environmental reform.

Greta

Regina,
You are right Sonja Waite is the person to see if you want training from tetra tech. I went to one of the training sessions and found it to be extreemly helpful through the hands on approach to learning. We learned the 'how to' concerning the IMDS. The real information is in the Annex II and the EU Directive (I don't have the exact title handy) along with the recommendations. It does take some reading and lots of time to create the coordinator position. I see Tetra tech has published their schedule for 2005 and they are offering advanced training.
Do you or anyone else think this may be worth while to attend? I'd be interedted in other opinions. Thanks for reading my looong post :)

Hello Greta, Rachel, Regina and Others,

I am with MDSMap-Tetra Tech, the organization that provides IMDS Training. In fact I am the one who developed the advanced training. So far people have found the Advanced IMDS Training very beneficial. Items we cover include the IMDS Recommendations, what particular customers require for submissions, identifying problem data from suppliers and the client manager functions. If you would like more information you can contact Sonja Waite at 734 213-5000 or waite@mdsmap.com.

If I can be of assistance in answering any of your questions please feel free to contact me at 734 213-5088 or harden@mdsmap.com. Several individuals have taken the advanced training and we have received many positive reviews.

Thanks,

Chris Harden
:thanx:

Chris - thanks for the offer - I already took you up on it a few months ago. :o
Once again...Cheers! :drunk:
-R.

If you haven't already heard, the next thing for elimination is bromated flame retardants. (BFR)Greta, can you direct me to the primary source, either regulation or legislation for this? Thanks.

On my last report to Toyota and Honda I was requested to list any products that contained Bromone Fire retardants or Azo dyes. These are presently listed as a "substance of concern" that requires monitoring.

I have run into this problem. Your supplier is in violation of IMDS Recommendation 001 which your customer has chosen to enforce. Your have a right to reject your supplier's IMDS report based on its violation of Recommendation 001 (Sec. 3.5 Basic Substance-item 4.-"Wildcards"). IMDS Recommendation 001 is posted for logged in IMDS users under Recommendations on the main menu screen.

Michael:

I appreciate your input. However, I have to stand behind my supplier on this one; Recommendation One is just that...a RECOMMENDATION, not a regulation.

In addition, my customer had not informed me of the requirement to adhere to this Recommendation, nor has my supplier agreed to be part of this.

Let's keep one thing in mind when we discuss this; IMDS was meant to be a database for EUROPEAN vehicles, not NA vehicles....this is something that everyone is trying hard to roll-out (without consultation to the lower tiers) just to cover themselves.

Greta, can you direct me to the primary source, either regulation or legislation for this? Thanks.

I have received requests from Visteon, Ford, and Nissan to identify and devise a plan for the elimination of BFR's which contain the prefix Deca, Penta and Octa. I have documentation at work citing which states in the US have outlawed the use of BFR and why.

As far as the European Union goes regarding the elimination of heavy metals; we must remember here that many businesses are global in nature and MUST adhere to the laws of the country they do business in. Auto manufactures are just that; global in nature.

This directive within the US is largely customer driven. Think about it.. is just makes good business sense to have standards across the board. In fact Toyota is driving the lead free solder initiative. As many of you already know, the Annex II provides a permenant exemption of lead for electronics as long as it is clearly identified for disposal purposes. We are currently going to the lead free solder to meet customer demands. It is a long, drawn out process with much testing and approvals before implementation. It won't be too much longer and the other OEM's will follow suit.

Thanks.

Greta

Michael and Ron;
Check out IMDS recommendation 010 for an exemption to the 10% rule for plastics. And like I said before, those recommendations are our guidelines to follow. I believe they were devised in part by the Steering Committee. James Lundstrom told us at the AIAG IMDS Summit last October 6 that if we follow the guidelines in the recommendations, we can be assured of OEM acceptance.
I would highly recommend the supplier contact the person responsible for IMDS issues at the customer to find out what is required. I find they are more than happy to let you know.
Also, the customer should have written guidelines on what they will accept. I know I have received many many of them at year's end because of the exemption for lead in glass expired on 1/01/2005.

There is a new version of IMDS being released. V3 with some major changes. If you would like to see more about it there is a summit being held at AutoTech 2005

http://www.aiag.org/autotech/index2005.cfm

Here is an excerpt of the IMDS portion of the show:

Mark your calendar and save the date for an automotive informational event you won't want to miss - The Environmental Town Hall: ELV/IMDS Summit. The Automotive Industry Action Group (AIAG) is hosting the ELV/IMDS Summit on Aug. 29, 2005, at Cobo Conference Center in Detroit, to bring suppliers and all tiers up to speed on the latest reporting and compliance information from the European Union IMDS Steering Committee, North American automotive manufacturers and Tier one suppliers.
To answer your questions on reporting requirements and the essentials for compliance with IMDS and ELV directives, representatives will be available from DaimlerChrysler Corp., Ford Motor Co., General Motors Corp., Honda of America, Toyota North America, EDS, the IMDS European Steering Committee, tier one suppliers and raw material suppliers.

Take advantage of this opportunity to hear the most up-to-date information, and also find out what may be down the road. In addition, the soon-to-be introduced IMDS 3.0, the reporting tool for many suppliers, will be featured.

For more information, visit the AIAG Web site at https://mows.aiag.org/staticcontent/05elvimdssummit.pdf (http://www.magnetmail.net/ls.cfm?r=20498144&sid=548391&m=100646&u=AIAG&s=https://mows.aiag.org/staticcontent/05elvimdssummit.pdf)

To register, contact AIAG customer service at (248) 358-3003 or register online at www.aiag.org (http://www.magnetmail.net/ls.cfm?r=20498144&sid=548392&m=100646&u=AIAG&s=http://www.aiag.org).

In-depth standard and advanced IMDS training also will be available via MDS Map on August 30 and 31. Call (734) 213-5000 for more information.

Monday, Aug. 29, 2005 (10:00am - 3:00pm) (https://mows.aiag.org/staticcontent/05elvimdssummit.pdf)

International Material Data System (IMDS) reporting and End-of-Life Vehicle (ELV) directives impact virtually every supplier. The Environmental Town Hall highlights the latest information on IMDS requirements direct from the experts at the European Union, North American automotive manufacturers including DaimlerChrysler Corp., Ford Motor Co., General Motors Corp., Honda of America Manufacturing Inc., Toyota Motor Manufacturing N.A. Inc. and Tier One suppliers.

Hi

We Are Currently Changing Over All Our Products (electrical Connectors) To Comply With Elv Rohs Etc Though One Of Our Automotive Customers Says That They Are Not And Want Us To Continue Supplying Them Parts Containing Lead.

I Suppose My Question Is - Is The Elv Directive A Law? Can We Still Supply Items Not Compliant With Elv? Is There A Get Out Clause?

Please Help

Thanks

Hi

We Are Currently Changing Over All Our Products (electrical Connectors) To Comply With Elv Rohs Etc Though One Of Our Automotive Customers Says That They Are Not And Want Us To Continue Supplying Them Parts Containing Lead.

I Suppose My Question Is - Is The Elv Directive A Law? Can We Still Supply Items Not Compliant With Elv? Is There A Get Out Clause?

Please Help

Thanks
Interesting question! When I was in the machining business, we arbitrarily stopped making parts out of beryllium copper and refused to supply parts with cadmium plating. We considered the hazards of the materials too great for our employees. We offered alternates which we felt would provide equal or better function. If customers balked, we wished them well and moved on. The point may have been that we had enough business to be "principled." I'm glad we weren't under the economic thumb of a single customer who could extort us to deal with those materials.

If, for some reason, your organizations is legally able to (and subsequently chooses to) make the lead-containing components, I certainly hope you are able to justify and charge a premium for segregating manufacturing and storage of lead-containing materials.

I hope you have the force of "regulation" to help you. Please be sure to tell us how it all works out.

I Suppose My Question Is - Is The Elv Directive A Law? Can We Still Supply
items Not Compliant With Elv? Is There A Get Out Clause?


The End-of-Life Vehicles (ELVs) Directive (2000/53/EC) passed into European law in October 2000. It is concerned with cars, vans and certain three-wheeled vehicles.

The Directive's main requirements are for Member States to ensure that:

producers limit the use of certain hazardous substances in the manufacture of new vehicles and automotive components, and promote the recyclability of their vehicles
ELVs are subject to de-pollution prior to dismantling, recycling or disposal
treatment facilities operate to higher environmental standards and have permits if they want to deal with undepolluted ELVs
certain recovery and recycling targets are met by 1 January 2006 and 1 January 2015
by 2007, producers pay ‘all or a significant part’ of the costs of treating negative or nil value ELVs at treatment facilities
In North America it is not law as of yet. But if you are suppling anything to the following it must be entered into either the IMDS system or into the AIAG ELV spreadsheet and sent to your customer, (the customer should tell you which to use) :

This list is a reproduction from the IMDS website http://www.mdsystem.com/index.jsp

Bayerische Motoren Werke AG (BMW)
DaimlerChrysler AG
Dr. Ing. h.c.F. Prosche AG
Fiat
Ford Motor Company
Fuji Heavy Industries
General Motors
Hyundai
Isuzu
Mazda
Mitsubishi Motors
Nissan
Nissan Diesel
Suzuki
Toyota
Volkswagen AG
Volvo Car Corproation



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Hi

We Are Currently Changing Over All Our Products (electrical Connectors) To Comply With Elv Rohs Etc Though One Of Our Automotive Customers Says That They Are Not And Want Us To Continue Supplying Them Parts Containing Lead.

I Suppose My Question Is - Is The Elv Directive A Law? Can We Still Supply Items Not Compliant With Elv? Is There A Get Out Clause?

Please Help

Thanks


The Annex II of the ELV Direcitve 2000/53/EC places the automotive industry exempt of the lead free regulations for the electronics in autos. The populated PCB contains a fair amount of lead in the solder and other components and it is very costly to change over. This Pb free directive for electronics in cars and such is solely customer driven for this industry. What does have to become Pb free by July 2006 (I believe) is the commercial electronics industry. Ford, Honda, and Toyota are the three that I know are requiring lead free electronics for their products.

My thought is that in the future the entire automotive industry will follow the driving forces of Ford, Honda and Toyota. In fact, I believe Toyota's lead free date has already passed, it was July 2005.

I hope this helps.

I'm getting in a little late on this thread, but thought I'd add my $0.02 as well.

The first question I would ask is; where is your customer located? If they're in a part of the EU, then they are asking you to violate the laws and requirements of the IMDS legislation....probably NOT a good idea.

If they're NOT in the EU (which I am guessing is the case) then you have several options;

1) Advise your customer that, due to legislative requirements from other customers, and to maximize efficiency and prevent error, you will only supply lead-free products. (Be prepared to demonstrate that there is no cost or performance impact to your customer).

2) Run two product lines: one with lead-free (for EU-compliant customers), and one with lead (for those who require lead)

3) Discuss with the remainder of your customers (who are asking for lead-free) the reason for their requirement....do they REALLY need it? Or are they just jumping on the bandwagon because it's driving by.

Good luck, and let us know how you make out.

In regard to lead in electronics and lead in automotive. The ELV Directive is basically law in the European Union (actually its a directive that requires each member country to draft their own law stating the points of the directive) as is RoHS. Where the issue you dealing with comes from is the fact that the End of Life Vehicle Directive contains an exemption for lead in solder used on electronics. The RoHS Directive which applies to consumer and other electronics but not automotive does not have the blanket exemption for lead solder. Therefore you could supply connectors which contain lead in solder to the automotive market legally but not to the electronics market.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have questions.

Chris Harden
MDSMap