FYI - the IATF has issued a new sanctioned interpretation on Automotive Process Approach Auditing.

"IATF expects ISO/TS 16949:2002 auditors to audit based upon the customer-oriented processes defined by the organization... The Automotive Process Approach to auditing for ISO/TS 16949:2002 must not be driven by a 'clause' or a 'section' driven checklist..."

For the full text: Linky (http://www.iaob.org/si4_printable.html)

Thanks for the info. Since the TS Checklist have been retired since June 1, 2004, IMO it is necessary to issue this SI0404.

Those that are applying for TS2 certification should read this very carefully. This statement means that the auditor(s) should understand your system and plan their audits accordingly. It does NOT mean that you should define your system based on the CB needs.

Does anybody get the table that was posted with this interpretation??? It seems to me that it contradicts the whole purpose of the SI. To me, this table would be considered a "section driven checklist". Am I missing something or do I just not get it?

Does anybody get the table that was posted with this interpretation??? It seems to me that it contradicts the whole purpose of the SI. To me, this table would be considered a "section driven checklist". Am I missing something or do I just not get it?

At first glance it definitely looks that way. . . I could see the checklist shown as a Conformance or gap audit checklist.

This is as close to being process directed as they could make it.
This form is for the auditor to use during his desk audit; or as the new draft is calling it, stage 1 audit. Nothing more than a check sheet to verify compliance to each clause of the specification.
The more they try to describe it the deeper in the hole they get.

I like the following notation for auditor requirements:

Key indicators trends for the previous 12 months, minimum

This could affect a "new" business or one not previously registered.

Al...

Friends Clarify me
Is it mandatory to have 12 month Trends during audit time to achieve TS2 if it is a ISO 9001:2000 Certified or QS 9000 Company

Friends Clarify me
Is it mandatory to have 12 month Trends during audit time to achieve TS2 if it is a ISO 9001:2000 Certified or QS 9000 Company

In a word YES. Refer to para 5 from the IAOB "frequently asked questions below;


5-Less than 12 months Performance Data

Question: How can a Site working towards ISO/TS 16949:2002 show 12 months performance data?

Answer: For an established facility the last 12 months performance data should be provided against the products in production and the QMS being used.

Note: In the case of a new facility the audit should be conducted once ISO/TS 16949:2002 QMS compliance is established the Certification Body is permitted to issue a letter of conformance. After 12 months production, when performance data is verified, the Certification process can proceed.

In a word YES. Refer to para 5 from the IAOB "frequently asked questions below;


5-Less than 12 months Performance Data

Question: How can a Site working towards ISO/TS 16949:2002 show 12 months performance data?

Answer: For an established facility the last 12 months performance data should be provided against the products in production and the QMS being used.

Note: In the case of a new facility the audit should be conducted once ISO/TS 16949:2002 QMS compliance is established the Certification Body is permitted to issue a letter of conformance. After 12 months production, when performance data is verified, the Certification process can proceed.No disrespect intended, but this sounds like new companies are automatically relegated to "probation status" until they have 12 months of "sanctioned" operations to show.

No disrespect intended, but this sounds like new companies are automatically relegated to "probation status" until they have 12 months of "sanctioned" operations to show.

None taken. That was the intent of the post, unless I'm seeing something in a different light. :confused:

Where can i get some good excel KPI charts on the items we need to be charting for the new TS. I am ok when it comes to excel but it seems like alot of charting to be done and i was wounding if anybody has some they would like to share with us. Its always good to see other ideals in charting come alone also. :applause:

I wanted everyone to know that I made the following posting which is directly related to this thread. I called the thread 8.2.2.1 QMS System audit (or something very similar). I also posted this thread in the auditing forum since it is an auditng quesiton.

Regards, Dirk

From TS 16949, 8.2.2.1 The organizaiton shall audit its quality manangment system to verify compliance with this Technical Specification and any additional quality management system requirements.

Our organization's response to this requirement was to take the IATF TS 16949 checklist and do a multi-day "system" audit. This checklist was obsoleted by the IATF becasue it did not support the Process Appproach. The checklist did support a element / clause approach.

So how are others meeting this system audit requirement? How does one audit the system (inter-related processes) using the proccess approach? Somehow, we need to look at the entire system in regards to inputs, outputs, controls and resources per process, link all of the processes together to get the big picture, and then make a statment that our qms is or is not complaint to TS 16949?

Another idea I had was to include questions in our process audits that relate directly to TS. Generally, our process audits are comprised of questions that are taken dircelty from our internal process specs and not from TS.

Any feedback would be apprecaited.

Thank you, Dirk van Putten

Will someone please send me the attachement to SI0404? I cannot open nor detach the attached chart to SI0404. I have Adobe Reader 6.0 and it will not open.

My e mail address is: dvanputten@linear.com

Thank you, Dirk

Dirk,
Here is a copy of the table, I hope this is what you are looking for.