Hi Folks,

It is my first time to prepare for a management review meeting. But I can not be sure about two things:

1) How to review all the elements of ISO/TS 16949?
2) How to evaluate the effectivenss and efficiency of each process?

I am closing a agenda of my company, please make comments and suggestions.

Thanks!

Hi Folks,

It is my first time to prepare for a management review meeting. But I can not be sure about two things:

1) How to review all the elements of ISO/TS 16949?
2) How to evaluate the effectivenss and efficiency of each process?

I am closing a agenda of my company, please make comments and suggestions.

Thanks!Every organization has its "culture" and protocols for meetings. I do not mean to imply my comments and suggestions are the ONLY way, just something to consider for efficiency.

In my opinion, all the folks who will be present at the management review meeting should have advance copies of both the agenda and the reports and data listed.

When they come to the meeting, they can be as informed (or uninformed) about the matters on the agenda as they care to be.
An informed participant can be prepared with pertinent suggestions or questions.
If the participant is from a department on the receiving end of an NC, he can be prepared to respond to any questions he might anticipate from others.
No time will be wasted during the meeting distributing documents.
With advance knowledge of the agenda, participants may do outside research before the meeting so action can be set at the meeting instead of waiting for "further information."
The concept of the management review meeting is really for several people to meet, debate if necessary, and then to agree on actions regarding the material presented. It is NOT for knowledge exchange. Knowledge exchange normally comes from reviewing documents. (Sometimes [rarely] individuals who have the power to make action decisions prefer to get their information from an oral presentation. Then - you MUST arrange such a presentation.)

Sometimes, only one person is needed for the action decision - hence no physical meeting is necessary, only the review of documents by the responsible manager, who then may seek additional information or make the decision about action immediately.

Good luck on your review. Tell us how it turns out and whether you learned any lessons from the activity.

Finally, welcome to the Cove!:bigwave:

Thank you Wes,

The only thing I am not sure about whether my arranged items meet the requirements of ISO/TS16949. I think the above two points may be very important for TS QMS. And so I would like to hear how you would comment from your professional eyes.

Thanks

Thank you Wes,

The only thing I am not sure about whether my arranged itmes meet the requirements of ISO/TS16949. I think the above two points may be very important for TS QMS. And so I would like to hear how you would comment from your professional eyes.

ThanksI'm confused - I don't see any "arranged times" I only see an order of events on an agenda numbered from 1-12 - no time.

If you finish the entire agenda in 12 minutes or 12 days doesn't make any difference.

If you mean something else, tell me.

Sorry, actually it is not an agenda. One week before the actual mgmt review we shall make an agenda with time frame. This list is just for you guys to make comments on its contents. What I am try to be sure about is whether this detailed list can meet the requirements or not? Have I forgot something? etc.

Quick clarification me thinks.

The original "arranged itmes" transposition, I believe is "items", not "times", so it is discussing CONTENTS.

My QMS review includes: Business plan, customer feedback (complaints & satisfaction), audit issues, corrective and preventive actions, policy changes, document system updates, training and other HR issues, and past QMS review updates. So it appears similar to yours.

Thank you Rob,

Can you elaborate a little on how you review each element of the standard and how to evalute the effectiveness and efficiency of the each process?
If you 'd like, would you please give such an example?

I do not cover every clause & element of any standard; that's what the internal audit is for. The QMS review simply does two things: 1) Reviews the (major) changes, deletions and additions, to the QMS and why, and 2) acquires approvals for planned/recommended changes to the QMS.

Effectiveness is evaluated using reports, analyses, etc. as well as anecdotally during the multi-disciplinary QMS Review Meeting (e.g. "does everyone agree that the change was effective? Are there any problems as you see it?")

I would prefer not attaching an actual management review meeting record, but I think you get the gist of it from the above.

This is an example of the agena that we use for management review. We are implementing ISO 9001:2000.

[QUOTE=Rob Nix]I do not cover every clause & element of any standard; that's what the internal audit is for.

Hi Rob,

It says in 5.6.1.1that these reviews shall include all requirements of the quality management system and its performance trends as an essential part of the continual improvement.
It also says in 5.1.1 that top management shall review the product realization processes and the support processes to assure their effectiveness and efficiency.

During our last review we managed to review internal report and its findings and action plans with a tempt to cover all the elements of the stnadards. And through the evaluation of quality targets, machines and equipment, training etc. with a tempt to decide their effectiveness and efficiency. But during our pre-assessment, our CB auditor insisted we did not implement the above-mentioned two clauses. right now I really don't know what to meet the requirements. Am I wrong or our auditor is wrong?

Hope you guys lend me a helpful hand on this aspect.

When you develop your reports do you do a report for internal audit results? We create reports for each of the various requirements, review the reports during management review and attach a copy of the reports to our management review records.

In addition, each management member signs off on all internal audit reports prior to issuance of any CARs/PARs. The signed copy of the audit report is then archived as a record of audits and management review of audit findings.

Management review should stick to monitoring key measurables as set up in the QMS and directing any need for improvement projects. As said, Internal/External audit should take care of reviewing the elements/processes of the system which lead to those measurables.

Al...

Management Reviews need to work for each seperate organization. The management Review should be productive and include "Good-for-Business" information. I have seen a lot of companies do things during MR because they felt the registrar wanted them to cover it. :confused: :bonk:

While I do not protent to have the best system for MR - I have enclosed a copy of our procedure and cover sheet to the meeting minutes that we have developed and used. This is our procedure for MR. We build the agenda right from the procedure. The tasks listed are covered on the agenda in the same order as TS.

Management review should stick to monitoring key measurables as set up in the QMS and directing any need for improvement projects. As said, Internal/External audit should take care of reviewing the elements/processes of the system which lead to those measurables.

Al...Maybe some clarification is in order from my side.
(thanks for "items" vs "times," Rob)
In my mind, the management review is not a one-time, once-a-year event where we cover EVERYTHING in one setting. Often, in organizations I am familiar with, only a portion of all the items are covered in each of several sessions over the course of a quarter or even a year. (In another thread, there is a discussion about whether ALL internal audits are done on the same day [like closing for inventory?] or spread out over time.)

Quite frankly, there are many items which come up for review that do not need to be reviewed by ALL managers simultaneously. Certainly, ALL managers do not need to vote on every action item decision. [I understand many countries and organizations may have a different cultural mindset and that for them ALL decisions must be by consensus.]

It seems to me that all these items cover the range I would expect management reviews to cover. Depending on the size and scope of the operation, ALL of them "could" be covered in one session. If everything in the organization is running smoothly and there are no major action items which entail big commitments of cash or manpower, I can envision a "pro forma" session lasting only an hour or two.

If there are any controversial items (two or more opposing views on a plan of action), the time can stretch. I personally have witnessed "power plays" that have dragged meetings out over several days over one item as opposing sides marshalled witnesses and advocates to support their own views.

Sometimes these "hammer and tong" meetings are necessary to determine a course of action between two or more valid views. More often, they are a sign of a deeper malaise within an organization. Think of the transition periods in many organizations as they try to change from a traditional way of doing business to a completely different one (dictated, perhaps, by a powerful customer.)

As for a report for internal audit rsults, we make a summary of good findings and NCs resulted from what clauses and what sections together with a NCs matrix. I doubt what the auditor emphasized is every department has to prepare a report on CARs received and documents suitability or necessary revision for their department. Has anyone ever done it like that?

For process efficiency, I plan to have every department to make a report on effectiveness by reviewing their process outputs against inputs, efficiency by reviewing their targets or related KPI etc. Can this meet the requirements?

:confused:

I agree with Rob - internal audits review the entire QMS. Was top management present during the audit closing meetings? If so, then they reviewed the results of an audit of all requirements of the QMS there even if they didn't do a thorough review during the "official" management review meeting.

Effectiveness and efficiency can be covered in the quality objectives "established at relevant functions and levels within the organization." Not knowing what your objectives and their measurements are, I can't comment on whether you have covered this in sufficient detail.

If you believe you have an interpretation issue with your CB auditor, ask your registrar for clarification. They should be able to give you specifics about why they say you don't meet the requirements.

Wes:applause:

Al...

Thank you everybody.

We carry it to the letter, our GM chaired the meeting and the meeting lasted 3 hours and a half. For standard elements we have not reviewed it one by one but our internal audit report did give a coverage.

For KPI or company -level quality objectives we have nearly 10 items, at each function level they have been deployed and each function has 6-10 targets respectively. For this we have got praised by the auditor, for effectiveness and efficiency, the auditor must mean another way which we don't know.

does anyone have any success with using software to track and maintian
management meeting notes?

I have made a database in filemaker pro but every meeting it seems the notes gets larger and a loot of looking back on metrics from last qtr which are in excel. Part of the problem is also that the other resposnible parties dont supply there reports.

Any ideas on how to get them to particpate?

Help them to develop a report tracking method that is easy to use. It may be that they are not sure how to track and/or measure the items that they are responsible for. If that does not work, the NAG, NAG, NAG :lmao:

Since there is a need to maintian these reocrds, I was looking for an easier way- primarily for my reports. Although , your right -I nag and nag for their reponsiblities. I am the note taker, the management representative and responsbile for many of the reports.