We have been a certified ISO company for many years. My new boss told me recently that a company has the option not to included ISO Clauses in their business if they elect not to accept them as best business practices.

Is that true?

We have been a certified ISO company for many years. My new boss told me recently that a company has the option not to included ISO Clauses in their business if they elect not to accept them as best business practices. Is that true?

I think your boss needs to review ISO2K. You can setup your business around good business practices, but you still need to cover the requirements. You need to marry the two. I'm sure that my Pal Roxy will have a whole page full of ways to do it.

I will assume that you have already upgraded to the 2K standard. Have you been through surveillence audits yet to the 2K standard?

I think your boss needs to review ISO2K. You can setup your business around good business practices, but you still need to cover the requirements. I agree. and here it is:
It should be noted that where the exclusions described in sub-clause 1.2 of EN ISO 9001:2000 are exceeded, conformity to EN ISO 9001:2000 shall not be claimed. Where exclusions are made, claims of conformity to this International Standard are not acceptable unless these exclusions are limited to requirements within clause 7, and such exclusions do not affect the organization's ability, or responsibility, to provide product that meets customer and applicable regulatory requirements. Pretty clear, imo.

/Claes

Thank you my Swedish Bro

I think your boss needs to review ISO2K. You can setup your business around good business practices, but you still need to cover the requirements.

Quote: (Originally Posted by ISO9001:2000, Foreword) It should be noted that where the exclusions described in sub-clause 1.2 of EN ISO 9001:2000 are exceeded, conformity to EN ISO 9001:2000 shall not be claimed.

Quote: (Originally Posted by ISO9001:2000, clause 1.2) Where exclusions are made, claims of conformity to this International Standard are not acceptable unless these exclusions are limited to requirements within clause 7, and such exclusions do not affect the organization's ability, or responsibility, to provide product that meets customer and applicable regulatory requirements.

What they said! :agree1:

You need to marry the two. I'm sure that my Pal Roxy will have a whole page full of ways to do it.

Flatterer...I take back the comment about your drooling problem. :D

But back to the situation...

We have been a certified ISO company for many years. My new boss told me recently that a company has the option not to included ISO Clauses in their business if they elect not to accept them as best business practices.

So far, you've seen that we may only exempt items from Clause 7, but only where the exemption does not adversely impact your ability to meet Customer requirements.

For example, we do not have a Sales office onsite...they simply give us the schedule. Sales falls under Clause 7. At first, we thought (and the Registrar agreed) that we could exclude 7.2. However, upon further analysis (by the Registrar), how can we meet Customer requirements if we don't technically know what the Customer requirements are (e.g., schedule gives grade and product dimensions, but how do we know where to ship to or if we supply the carrier, etc.).

I'm curious, though, to know what aspect of ISO 9001:2000 your boss feels is not inline with "best business practices." The Standard does not tell how to meet the requirements...that is left up to each organization to determine.

As my furry friend implied, your boss should perhaps learn more about ISO 9001:2000 by attending a course designed for managers. This could be something as simple as a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the Standard. :)

I'm curious, though, to know what aspect of ISO 9001:2000 your boss feels is not inline with "best business practices." Right. that's the key question. In a way your boss is right. You can of course exclude or use any part of the standad as you see fit... if you elect to skip certification, that is... If you want the badge you have to stick to the rules in 1.2.

Imo though, there should be no vs. between ISO9001 and best business practice: One does not exclude the other.

You can have both.:D

/Claes

Right. that's the key question. In a way your boss is right. You can of course exclude or use any part of the standad as you see fit... if you elect to skip certification, that is... If you want the badge you have to stick to the rules in 1.2.

Doesn't sound like an option for Rockanna, though. She mentioned that her organization has be registered for quite some time.

Imo though, there should be no vs. between ISO9001 and best business practice: One does not exclude the other.

True....but we should remember that one does not always include the other, too.

We have our Management System complete with tools and methodologies...all of which is in place to help us in our quest to become World Class. ISO 9001:2000 is one of those tools...but we would still have a System without registration (perhaps not quite a formal, though).

You can have both.:D

Very true...and very possible! Hmmm...it would appear that after Tazzie picked up my pompoms, he passed them on to you, Claes! :D We need a cheerleader emoticon! :D

Very true...and very possible! Hmmm...it would appear that after Tazzie picked up my pompoms, he passed them on to you, Claes! :D We need a cheerleader emoticon! :D

Now picture that. . . you, Claes and I . . .with Pom Poms and Cheerleader skirts leading the cheer! Even I'd pay to see that! :lmao:

Q---U---A---L---I---T---Y . . .What does it spell! :topic:

We need a cheerleader emoticon!

As long as it isn't a hairy, drooling Taz, I'll agree. :biglaugh:


On topic:

Much of ISO is the basic stuff. You can't get to "best practices" until your practices have reached a minimul level. One could argue that 9004 represents the "best practices", however many would say that 9004 is closer, but still not at that level.

As long as it isn't a hairy, drooling Taz, I'll agree. :biglaugh:

Poor Tazster! Not his fault he has hygeine problems....ahem, please note that was said while hiding behind db... :notme:

Much of ISO is the basic stuff. You can't get to "best practices" until your practices have reached a minimul level. One could argue that 9004 represents the "best practices", however many would say that 9004 is closer, but still not at that level.

Any theories as to why many would say it's close but still not there? All that I can think of is that while ISO 9001 is focused on the Customer, ISO 9004 focuses on all Stakeholders (i.e., Customer, Employee, Community, Shareholder and Supplier).

I guess what keeps ISO 9004 from achieving a Best Practice label is that it doesn't really take into account risk management. It describes what you should do, what you should take into consideration, what options there are for you to implement...but doesn't really say what is needed to become a top notch organization...or how to measure the effectiveness of implementing the options laid out in the guidelines.

Rockanna

Does your new "BOSS" have to call the customer base and tell them or do you?? Tell the new boss that you will call the suppliers and he/she can call the customers.:eek:

Al...

Poor Tazster! Not his fault he has hygeine problems....ahem, please note that was said while hiding behind db... :notme:


Man. . . you guys are brutal today! I'm going to crawl back into my cave, shower, shave, use some deodorant, brush my fangs, clean up the drool and MAYBE . . . just MAYBE. . .think about how I'll get even with the Roxter tomorrow!

Taz,

I have never thought of you as hairy!:lol: And I've never seen you...........

Al...:agree1:

Man. . . you guys are brutal today! I'm going to crawl back into my cave, shower, shave, use some deodorant, brush my fangs, clean up the drool and MAYBE . . . just MAYBE. . .think about how I'll get even with the Roxter tomorrow!

I'm sorry...what can I say...it's been an interesting two days of me biting my tongue as I've been audited while doing an audit. Forgive?

:bighug:

Besides, I think I can use a shave more than you. Canadian law and all...women aren't allowed to shave during playoffs. You should see how many of our Brasilian coworkers I get on that!!! :D

Poor Tazster! Not his fault he has hygeine problems....ahem, please note that was said while hiding behind db...

See the way she is, she starts something, drags an innocent party into it (me) and then hides behind the innocent! You should get even with her! :mg:

I'm sorry...what can I say...it's been an interesting two days of me biting my tongue as I've been audited while doing an audit. Forgive? :bighug:

Otay Panky (You're too young to remember that line Roxy). :bighug:

Besides, I think I can use a shave more than you. Canadian law and all...women aren't allowed to shave during playoffs. You should see how many of our Brasilian coworkers I get on that!!! :D

Hmmmmmm. . I've been to Windsor, Blenheim, Toronto, Montreal, and a few other "interesting" places many many times. . . and I don't remember seeing or hearing about that. . . of course. . . Roxy. . . are you sure you don't have sideburns? Mustache? Goatee? :jawdrop: :yuk:

Now picture that. . . you, Claes and I . . .with Pom Poms and Cheerleader skirts leading the cheer! Even I'd pay to see that! :lmao:
:topic: Yes... er... That would be a sight for sore eyes. I'm not all that sure the rest of the world is ready for it though. :o I wonder if my legs are up to it? And how high can you kick btw? Maybe some practice would be in order?

/Claes

Otay Panky (You're too young to remember that line Roxy).

I'll have to agree with you on that. :D All that comes to mind is Buckwheat off of the Little Rascals.

Hmmmmmm. . I've been to Windsor, Blenheim, Toronto, Montreal, and a few other "interesting" places many many times. . . and I don't remember seeing or hearing about that. . . of course. . . Roxy. . . are you sure you don't have sideburns? Mustache? Goatee? :jawdrop: :yuk:

No sideburns, mustache, goatee or any other form of facial hair...except for eyebrows and lashes. This "law" is one of those unknown laws we don't tell non-Canadians...

I am, of course, kidding about this law...but when someone from our Brasilian company comes up here to work and they bring their wife...boy oh boy, do I have fun with them. There are two traditions...the first is I build a snowman on top of their car in the parking lot. The second is explaining during playoffs that women are not allowed to shave. The police will even check the legs of women to ensure adherence to the law. The guys usually make plans to send the women back to Brasil for a vacation before they realize I'm teasing them. :rolleyes:

Yes... er... That would be a sight for sore eyes. I'm not all that sure the rest of the world is ready for it though. I wonder if my legs are up to it? And how high can you kick btw? Maybe some practice would be in order?


Don't know how high I can kick, but between my time in figure skating and tae kwon DOH!, I've maintained a lot of my flexibility. I'm sure your legs are in fine shape....but a little waxing might be in order.... :naughty:

So, geting back to a point Dave brought up, what do you think about the relationship between ISO 9004 and best practices? One and the same or close but not quite there?

Now that you've subtly hauled us back on topic again. . .

I actually think that ISO is changing to be more compatible with business management systems. Most manufacturing businesses have the core processes anyway (At some level of effectiveness); Contract Review, Design control at some level, Doc Control, maintain records, training to some extent, calibration of equipment, and some means of containing and correcting goofs. It's the Customer Satisfaction and Mgt Responsibility hooks that add a level consistency from company to company and ensure that Management is looking at issues other than "The Traditional Numbers"

JMHO. . . and Yes Roxy. . . . I AM impressed. . . it WAS Buckwheat!

Now that you've subtly hauled us back on topic again. . .

Subtlety is not my forte...hauling, on the other hand...

I actually think that ISO is changing to be more compatible with business management systems. Most manufacturing businesses have the core processes anyway (At some level of effectiveness); Contract Review, Design control at some level, Doc Control, maintain records, training to some extent, calibration of equipment, and some means of containing and correcting goofs. It's the Customer Satisfaction and Mgt Responsibility hooks that add a level consistency from company to company and ensure that Management is looking at issues other than "The Traditional Numbers"

I guess what we need then is a discussion on what consitutes best practices. I mean, you're right that more should be looked at then just the traditional numbers focusing on product quality, but to what extent?

JMHO. . . and Yes Roxy. . . . I AM impressed. . . it WAS Buckwheat!

Woohoo! Whaddiwin?Whaddiwin?Whaddiwin?

Subtlety is not my forte...hauling, on the other hand...
You caught my drift then. . . a Roxy-Oxymoron.

I guess what we need then is a discussion on what consitutes best practices. I mean, you're right that more should be looked at then just the traditional numbers focusing on product quality, but to what extent?

I wasn't referring to Product Quality in that statement. I was referring to the Daily/Weekly/Monthly Shipping Dollars. . . Product Quality rarely is a monitored big hitter in non-ISO/QS/TS management. Now Monthly Returns/Credits Yes. . . but that is not a measure of Product Quality. It is a loss from the bottom line.

Woohoo! Whaddiwin?Whaddiwin?Whaddiwin?
That's a secret. . . .

You caught my drift then. . . a Roxy-Oxymoron.

Sounds better than a Roxy-moron.....that's seems to discuss the IQ of any potential offspring I might hatch out one of these years...

I wasn't referring to Product Quality in that statement. I was referring to the Daily/Weekly/Monthly Shipping Dollars. . . Product Quality rarely is a monitored big hitter in non-ISO/QS/TS management. Now Monthly Returns/Credits Yes. . . but that is not a measure of Product Quality. It is a loss from the bottom line.

Hey, are you piggybacking onto my system right now? Just finished tallying up disclaimed Customer Complaint credits and have now switched over to Light Loads (what we lose when we don't ship out a full truck due to scheduling from Sales).

After that fun, I'm off to find out how much material we get per month from our sister plants without identifiers on it...this means we purchase it at prime costs and then scrap it. Ain't no ISO requirement for this, but understanding what's going on sounds like a smart thing to do (i.e., best business practice).