You talk to manufacturing people about this career, and every once in a while you get the impression its not the most secure of job fields.

No wonder either. To take responseability for the quality defects and customer complaints, when you actually have no authority to correct anything. See Energy's post to realize just how true this is.

But I'm growing and interested in this field even if it is mainly just secondary duties for me as a quality control chemist. And one day I will want to move on. With two kids, a car payment, a way of life, and bills that can't be ignored.

Are there things that interviewers might say or be that lets you know its more secure? Are rural places, big or small businesses, or certain industries more reliable? Are there ways to feel out situations for some sense of the safety factor.

Are there ways to make yourself More marketable to those that can be relied upon? I know I am asking some pretty big generalities- but many of you must have made that difficult first step. Apply for position and hope that they give you the support to succeed. Advice, experiences, horror stories (Energy/Lucinda) did you have any clues (with hindsight)?

Career Security is an Oxymoron. . . .

None the less, an interesting topic. I was with a client the other day and we were discussing that in a way. They are talking about young engineers - hiring some to be 'mentored' by the existing older folks. Which sounds nice but the company has a high turnover rate even in engineering. So it can be the other way around too. Just some thoughts....

I would think more rural areas would be more secure, but I have no facts or data to support my thought.

I do agree that job security is, and has long been, an issue. But I would focus on where you want to live your life, research areas that meet the bill, look at the various businesses and contact them.

I do go along with Taz - there is seldom true job security unless you 'have something' on the company president (Married to his daughter? Know his mistress?) or something like that....

I've got some immediate perspective on this. As you may know from another post, a portion of my company just got bought out by another company, and we're knee deep in interviews with BOTH companies to see who gets whom. In this area, which is southern, sort of rural, I am finding myself in the enviable position of being desired by both companies, primarily because I am well-versed in TS16949, which is still "new" enough that someone familiar with it is desirable. But even before my TS experience someone who knows their stuff in Quality systems - the nuts and bolts of implementing quality systems, not just "supervising" a quality system - is highly desireable, in this neck o' the woods anyway. I've worked with two companies in this area recently who ended up firing Quality people BECAUSE they were "administrators" of quality systems without having a full understanding of the day to day aspects of getting a QMS in place and the details of what the respective standards require. Another guy at our company attempted to pass himself off as a "quality guru" to another area industry, and they figured out pretty quick in the interview that he knew virtually NOTHING about the standard (in that case, QS9000). So at least in my experience I'd say Quality people who are "in the trenches" types are highly valuable and about as secure as anyone can hope to be, which as the ever-eloquent Taz! pointed out, ain't much.

- there is seldom true job security unless you 'have something' on the company president (Married to his daughter? Know his mistress?) or something like that....

Even then, if that president leaves, then you're even worse in trouble.

I'm a Tom Peters fan, and I think one of his points is you gotta have something on the company. You have to be the expert of something. Here, I'm the expert on numbers. Over 11 years I have maintained my credibility, seen people come and go, and outlasted them all. If you go to Tom Peters.com (http://www.tompetersnew.com/entries.php?note=001128.php), they have a free web-conference at the end of this month on "outsource-proofing your career". It may be interesting.

I am in a very rural area and the company that I work for advertised my position for a LONG time before I came to work here. Quality professionals are few and far between in this area.

In addition, I have been gone from my old company for 16 months and they just found a replacement a couple of weeks ago.

Good point, Steve, on "out-source proofing your career" by having talents no one else has. I would add that when you learn and take on responsibilities that no one else wants, that gives you further leverage.

At a sheet metal stamping plant I worked at over 15 years ago, some of my peers asked me why I did many of the tasks that were the responsibility of my boss. I told them that when layoffs were inevitable, how likely would my boss take those responsibilities back if he layed me off?

That's what is so cool about Quality Assurance. No one else wants it. So if we are willing to continue learning and applying new things, we really will have "something on the company"

If outsourcing is inevitable nonetheless, there is a pretty good article in the June 2004 Quality Progress (for those of you that get it) in the "Career Corner" entitled "Prepare for the Worst". It discusses, for example, taking your current skills and applying them to other fields.

That's what is so cool about Quality Assurance. No one else wants it.


AMEN to that, Rob! I just told someone recently, "The nice thing about quality? Look behind me, do you see a line forming of people who WANT to do my job?! I don't think so!" :lol: :lol:

It does help to know how to read the verniers when the batteries go out on the digitals!!!

Al...

AMEN to that, Rob! I just told someone recently, "The nice thing about quality? Look behind me, do you see a line forming of people who WANT to do my job?! I don't think so!" :lol: :lol:
That is also the wonderful thing about being a statistician - no one else wants your job :agree1:

I will say I have even tried to train up folks to back me up in case of some crisis (or I want to take vacation) and they inevitably take that training and go someplace else.

I've got some immediate perspective on this.
. . .
I am finding myself in the enviable position of being desired by both companies, primarily because I am well-versed in TS16949, which is still "new" enough that someone familiar with it is desirable. But even before my TS experience someone who knows their stuff in Quality systems - the nuts and bolts of implementing quality systems, not just "supervising" a quality system - is highly desireable, in this neck o' the woods anyway.

So at least in my experience I'd say Quality people who are "in the trenches" types are highly valuable and about as secure as anyone can hope to be, which as the ever-eloquent Taz! pointed out, ain't much.Steel Woman makes several excellent points and alludes to others:

The person's knowlege is an important factor in hiring/remaining hired
Corporations come and go - being indispensible to one organization is not the same as being "marketable" (being the best buggy whip craftsman won't get you hired at GM)
Location is a relative thing for the employee - consider the lifestyle that suits you and your family; arrange priority between:
"some" job which allows you to maintain compatible lifestyle
and
"highest paying" job which forces relocation to a less desirable place.
Location is also relative to whether or not the employer or employment market will remain stable. Many long-term, same location employers have disappeared in the blink of an eye. Geographic regions which were once a hotbed of employment fall on hard times and new ones spring up - "change is the only non-variable" ;) [knowing smirk as everyone realizes both the truth and absurdity of this statement.]

You talk to manufacturing people about this career, and every once in a while you get the impression its not the most secure of job fields. There is no denying it: It's not (but then again, what job is?). I think we all know where the first blow usually strikes when it's staff reduction time? In a situation with red figures few companies bother with long time planning. Their sole interest at that point is to stop the bleeding and never mind the long time consequences, because there may not be a long time future. Damage control comes later.

/Claes

I've had about a million jobs. There has probably been less than two months in my life when I did not have at least on part-time job along with my full-time position. Here is what I found.

First. Be genuine! If you are genuine, you will be trusted to a degree. Support that by being trustworthy. Also, never do anything with malice. Be knowledgable, not only in your own area, but others as well. Help other areas when possible (without sounding like you're telling them how to do their jobs). Do the best possible job you can at all times. Don't just chase after the bucks. I am with a not-for-profit organization (and they pay accordingly), and came from a multi-national corporation. It should not be all about the money.

I gave my boss my notice back in June 2002. I was going to leave in May 2003. Ruth's health delayed that. Now we are looking at 2005. My boss, his boss, and his boss' boss are all telling me I can't leave. It is not that I am irreplacable. It is that they see value to the organization in me staying. We've even had several meetings on how I can continue on, while living 200 miles away. We aren't there yet, but I think we will work something out.

Being valuable, and desirable is not always in being the one who wants to climb the ladder of success the fastest. The best way is to push your boss up, not out.

I agree with the variety of responses that your skills and knowledge will provide more long term security than depending on a single company or even industry.

I will caution you that it is tough to switch industries especially if you try to go from chemical to automotive for instance. If you want to switch industries than don't stay too long where you are. I would also be concerned about the long term health of the chemical industry in the U.S. as more plants are moved off shore.

Whether you want to be rural or city, big or small company, that is a personal decision about what makes you most comfortable. It makes little difference if you work for the only chemical company in a big or small city if they close shop. Big companies go through downsizings but small companies can get acquired and you could lose out or be forced to move. I have been to Butler and it is a nice area. Pittsburgh is close but I am sure you have seen how much industry has been lost there over the years. Just drive through Neville Island if you need a reminder.

I would recommend that you always think about what is best for you and your family first and then fit your job and career in after that. Companies and jobs come and go but you can count on family if they come first in your life.

Bill Pflanz
ex-oil and chemical engineer

I am in a very rural area and the company that I work for advertised my position for a LONG time before I came to work here. Quality professionals are few and far between in this area.

In addition, I have been gone from my old company for 16 months and they just found a replacement a couple of weeks ago.

Hmmmmm - I would love to semi-retire to Georgia - my sons both live there and my daughter in Florida. ;)

Dave

For me, the most vital aspect to my employability is my ability to learn. I may not be an expert on every aspect of a company, but if I understand the terminology and application and processes, then my feedback is often seen as being relevent. If I don't have a clue, why should anyone listen to me?

Having started working while back in school, the past ten years for me have seen a mixture of environments....from printing ink to steel racking to plastic tanks and pumps to city transit buses to making steel. The evolution has been from strictly ISO 9000 to Quality Management Systems to Environmental Management Systems to Business Management Systems...my involvement in our EMS has picked up and with the next year, I will probably start having exposure to our H&S Management System. My projects have become less rule-focused and more system/process-focused, including other departments like Information Systems, HR, and Finance.

Without an ability to learn, I would not be where I am. Is it job security? No, not really. But what it does mean is that I won't be out of a job for long, most likely. :D

I think that, excluding some exceptions, gone are the days of job security. Jobs that are from the cradle to the grave are OUT. The INs are job sharing, flexi time, flexible work forces, out sourcing ( self competition with outsiders :confused: ) and sweat shops.
However IMHO, one should "add value" to his/her worth by continious improving namely;
Competence
Qualifications
Personality
Motivation
and Social involvement

However IMHO, one should "add value" to his/her worth by continious improving namely;
Competence
Qualifications
Personality
Motivation
and Social involvement

In other words. . . staying active (Not passive) in the Cove! :agree1:

Come to think of it............how very true Taz, wise words,