My company is a very bottom line driven mid-sized business doing business with a number of Fortune 100 companies. We are being driven into a six sigma program by several customers, and I am very conflicted over this. Just the training for green and black belts is expensive, and then the beauracracy created by programs like this is often more than small-mid sized businesses can manage. I know my management is not at all interested in committing the necessary dollars to do this.

I think that companies can achieve good continuous improvement without having an official six sigma program. The tools have been around for many years, why do I need to call it something specific in order to have a solid CPI program??

We are being driven into a six sigma program by several customers.

This is what gets me mad about many organizational statistical programs. There just not internaly motivated to get into them, in many cases, statistical tools are forced upon them by outside forces such as customers and suppliers.


Just the training for green and black belts is expensive, and then the beauracracy created by programs like this is often more than small-mid sized businesses can manage. I know my management is not at all interested in committing the necessary dollars to do this.

I think that companies can achieve good continuous improvement without having an official six sigma program. The tools have been around for many years, why do I need to call it something specific in order to have a solid CPI program??

Well, I guess the same can be said for the ISO 9001 standard.
Continual improvement is the key to successful utilization and use of tools such as SPC Sick sigma and others.
Wallace.

RosieA,

Your right, in your company's case 6 Sigma is not the answer, but I would hazard to guess that neither is any other CIP. A small company can be fortunate enough to have a few people that don't mind rolling up their sleeves, communicating openly to get concensus, and teaching themselves some continuous improvement techniques. That is enough to dramatically make a difference to your suppliers, co-workers, and customers. However, it doesn't change the culture of the organization for the better to have a few people doing this day after day. Continuous improvement is an important part of making more money, just like increasing sales, improving delivery, decreasing scrap, and reducing absenteeism (notice I didn't say reorganizing!). Until your management recognizes that it is everyone's job to continuously improve it will be a slow uphill battle for those few who take the time.

Swanee

My company is a very bottom line driven mid-sized business doing business with a number of Fortune 100 companies. We are being driven into a six sigma program by several customers, and I am very conflicted over this. Just the training for green and black belts is expensive, and then the beauracracy created by programs like this is often more than small-mid sized businesses can manage. I know my management is not at all interested in committing the necessary dollars to do this.

I think that companies can achieve good continuous improvement without having an official six sigma program. The tools have been around for many years, why do I need to call it something specific in order to have a solid CPI program??Even at their worst, GE and Motorola did not "drive" their suppliers into a formal 6S program in the same way automotive OEMs are driving suppliers into TS16949. I'd be interested in some more details (PM if you fear retaliation) about "who" and the exact terminology they use in driving your organization to take up a formal 6S program.

Is there a possibility your bosses are thinking

"How high?"
instead of
"Why?"
when they encounter this pressure to "jump" from one or more customers?

I think that companies can achieve good continuous improvement without having an official six sigma program. The tools have been around for many years, why do I need to call it something specific in order to have a solid CPI program??

My point exactly in other posts about six sigma. And in my opinion as a Deming follower, six sigma drives you to do thinks like setting numerical targets and having a select few people as "belts" that are counter to Dr Deming's 14 points.

My point exactly in other posts about six sigma. And in my opinion as a Deming follower, six sigma drives you to do thinks like setting numerical targets and having a select few people as "belts" that are counter to Dr Deming's 14 points.Just a note of moderation, here:
Let's get the WHOLE story before we leap to conclusions.

In point of fact, there is less difficulty and "expense" in a modest 6S program than in TS16949. Certainly, there are far fewer "shalls" in 6S than TS.

It all depends how formulaic the organization is expected to be (according to the "driving customer"):

"X number of MBB per 1000 employees?
Y number of BB per 1000 employees?
Z number of GB per 1000 employees?
n number of YB per 1000 employees (yellow belts)?
q number of champions per 1000 employees?
Everybody certified to ASQ?
i number of 6S initiatives per year at minimum $275,000 savings for every $10 million in sales?"
Given my "druthers" - I'd rather have my organization "declare" it is 6S than register to TS.

My company is a very bottom line driven mid-sized business doing business with a number of Fortune 100 companies. We are being driven into a six sigma program by several customers, and I am very conflicted over this. Just the training for green and black belts is expensive, and then the beauracracy created by programs like this is often more than small-mid sized businesses can manage. I know my management is not at all interested in committing the necessary dollars to do this.

I think that companies can achieve good continuous improvement without having an official six sigma program. The tools have been around for many years, why do I need to call it something specific in order to have a solid CPI program??

Yes you can have a good continuous improvement process without having a six sigma program.
Force is not the issue,the real question is; Are you willing to accept the concequences of not complying with the customer requests?

Force is not the issue,the real question is; Are you willing to accept the concequences of not complying with the customer requests?

I've gotten a comment about that. If the customer requesting six sigma understands six sigma, then perhaps you could get futher enlightenment from the person (personnel) that understands it.

Just like any company, you will undoubtably have to estimate the bottom line to this business choice. if the data says you must comply, it doesn't seem a that expensive to 'cheat'.

Take one person whom understands process improvement, give him a project and have him spend all of 180$ to get ASQ certified. now that you have a 'black belt'. now take the people previously doing continous improvement and document their efforts on a formal charter. Can't that be considered 'six sigma'...

As I've vented on another forum- This six sigma label seems like it can mean practically nothing... and can be little more then saying you conduct projects to save $$$ (and honestly how many companies don't do this).

As a general comment, I can't understand why a supplier would ever make this condition? Six sigma here seems entirely about $$$, and many projects have no impact on quality. (Actually a few have from what I can tell, a negative impact on quality-- production closer to specifications and smaller capability indexes).
Jay

It all depends how formulaic the organization is expected to be (according to the "driving customer"):

"X number of MBB per 1000 employees?
Y number of BB per 1000 employees?
Z number of GB per 1000 employees?
n number of YB per 1000 employees (yellow belts)?
q number of champions per 1000 employees?
Everybody certified to ASQ?
i number of 6S initiatives per year at minimum $275,000 savings for every $10 million in sales?"
Given my "druthers" - I'd rather have my organization "declare" it is 6S than register to TS.

I have to laugh, Wes, because my company has far fewer than a 1000 employees! How many MBBs for every 250 employees?

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this subject. Jay. I think we'll have to do as you suggest and train one person, do one project and see where it goes from there.