I read an interesting article in the June 2004 "Quality" magazine (www.qualitymag.com) on company culture and how it affects ISO registration, profits, etc. It all made sense to me, it is all believable to me, I've seen it and lived it much more often than I cared to, but so many company "leaders" just can't seem to grasp it. There are a few folks I'd like to tie down and force to read this article until they memorize it, yet I'm not sure it would do any good at all. :mad:

Anyway, just thought a few of you folks might like to check it out.

Mike, though I think the descriptions are vivid, emotional and easy to relate too. I have to admit I hate these kinds of articles --before you get hot :truce:

Its just too general. I think management swallows this things, feeling the acronymed tests are a dime a dozen (and the author barely discuessed what was evaluated- and didn't really address his formula for being constructive).

We have a CEO, too. and he is passionate, enthusiastic, and has opened a dialog with corporate workers. He is paid ALOT of $$$ to be the best of the best. Yet ,somehow it doesn't filter down. He comes out with a lot of fine motivational messages- but lacking specifics sticking to the broad pity things that are so general no one could disagree with it.

Here's what I like ; Deming. He was specific, he didn't stay at the generalities. He went for the meat-No management by objective, Drive out fear.

Truly courageous culture change may take truly courageous action; don't just speak against 'aggresive defensive' actions. SEE WHO is aggresive defensive and deal with him (tell him a new era is coming, give his early retirement, shift his responseabilities). Management loves blaming someone else and the 'culture' is a frequent target of their messages. We need to spread the word that managers (starting with TOP managers) cause the problem not only by being greedy and corrupt, BUT by not supporting the little guys. Too often do I here that the company needs to 'fix' the culture-and not enough that management is hiring people to give adequate support to operations and holding managers accountable (starting at the highest level) for there effect on morale.

before I get too chewed out, Let me re-emphasize, I really do agree with the article. Like the description of lung cancer, the description of a poor company/corp culture is a pain to watch, worse to be in,and something nearly everybody agrees is Undesireable.

All the same, there are a lot of companies whom smoke (if you follow my analogy).

We need to specifically point out their bad habits. Start with the man /woman who is near production and feels personnally the effect of every poor habit. We the quality community need to relay the common theme of many poor actions too.

this article is just saying , what any CEO would agree with. Poor culture hurts profits. What specifically is hurting company culture, thats the question many CEO's get wrong.

Mike, though I think the descriptions are vivid, emotional and easy to relate too. I have to admit I hate these kinds of articles --before you get hot :truce:

Its just too general. I think management swallows this things, feeling the acronymed tests are a dime a dozen (and the author barely discuessed what was evaluated- and didn't really address his formula for being constructive).

We have a CEO, too. and he is passionate, enthusiastic, and has opened a dialog with corporate workers. He is paid ALOT of $$$ to be the best of the best. Yet ,somehow it doesn't filter down. He comes out with a lot of fine motivational messages- but lacking specifics sticking to the broad pity things that are so general no one could disagree with it.

Here's what I like ; Deming. He was specific, he didn't stay at the generalities. He went for the meat-No management by objective, Drive out fear.

Truly courageous culture change may take truly courageous action; don't just speak against 'aggresive defensive' actions. SEE WHO is aggresive defensive and deal with him (tell him a new era is coming, give his early retirement, shift his responseabilities). Management loves blaming someone else and the 'culture' is a frequent target of their messages. We need to spread the word that managers (starting with TOP managers) cause the problem not only by being greedy and corrupt, BUT by not supporting the little guys. Too often do I here that the company needs to 'fix' the culture-and not enough that management is hiring people to give adequate support to operations and holding managers accountable (starting at the highest level) for there effect on morale.I think Steve Prevette and I may have to adopt you! We LOVE Demingites!

No chewing out from me, J, your opinions is welcome.

I guess I liked the article from the standpoint that its findings validated so much of what I've seen and experienced first-hand.

IMO, the "how" to fix the culture is not so hard once the desire is there.

As for Deming, I've commented on him before. He is a fine man, and contributed lots to the Q battle, but by himself he is just too...prescriptive and unbending without showing the "how", which is why I prefer Juran. JMO.

I wonder if there are any truly effective methods, 32-Step or otherwise, that will "correct" a passive-aggressive culture.

Where such a collection of personalities comingle, the dynamics may feel right and normal: "I am highly trained in ___ specialty. You should let me have free reign because I can raise profits/productiviet/etc. by ___%" is the type of claim that indicates an "I" mind set instead of a "we" mindset that a good Business Operating System requires. The empowered "I" mindset may have been developed over a lifetime of environmental influences in home, premium schooling, and like-minded social contacts.

This is the sort of mindset, IMHO, that allowed the corporate scandals to happen. It even turned truly dark in some, with million dollar birthday parties charged as business expenses, accounting misdeeds, and a "Shoot the messenger" outlook to those who protest. This can result in crippling class schisms within the organization. Can this potentially devastating mindset be "corrected" with the program the article mentioned?

An organization can only heal itself when the sources of its problems are self-recognized. When would they be, when the admission of a need to change may imply being wrong, or weak? Let's look at our once-erstwhile Ken Lay. He claims the bad behavior went on without his knowing. Is it worse to be criminally involved or criminally ignorant of dealings that result from the company's passive aggressive culture?

I just have a hard time believing that such a cultural momentum can be turned around, even in several months, except possibly in crisis and after ejecting those who most influenced the negative culture.

Lastly, I don't agree with the author, that the ISO system is a good tool for everyone and will bring consistently good value. I'd really like to be wrong about that, but it's just too general a claim for my comfort. :nope:

Jennifer, I agree it's mentality of "Ego" vs. "Wego". Even some I have worked with as part of a cohesive management team, suddenly went "Hollywood" when they got promoted to top management. Makes you wonder what happened to the person you used to work with everyday for years, that was part of that productive team.

Jennifer, I agree it's mentality of "Ego" vs. "Wego". Even some I have worked with as part of a cohesive management team, suddenly went "Hollywood" when they got promoted to top management. Makes you wonder what happened to the person you used to work with everyday for years, that was part of that productive team.

My first thought was, "If people go 'Hollywood' (a great term) when promoted, does that indicate a class schism in the organization?" :(

Thanks Mike, it is a very intriquing article. I am especially tuned into the constructive culture and all of the accomplishments of such a culture. But I find it hard to imagine that such a company (constructive culture) would care about the benefits of ISO. It seems to me that they already have the benefits and then some! Or is the article trying to say that only through the wisdom of ISO can a constructive culture be achieved?
If you held the winning lottery ticket for the $290 million jackpot would you even care about registering into a program to make money?
I therefore have mixed emotions :confused: about the intent of the article.

My first thought was, "If people go 'Hollywood' (a great term) when promoted, does that indicate a class schism in the organization?" :(
Well, unfortunately it created one where there previously was none. Yes, these do create class segregation not only in the team, but communications dissemination only seems to go to a certain few. Then the rest of the team is suddenly surprised to find out something must be done tomorrow, when it was know to be coming a few weeks ago by those who retained the information. :(

Thanks Mike, it is a very intriquing article. I am especially tuned into the constructive culture and all of the accomplishments of such a culture. But I find it hard to imagine that such a company (constructive culture) would care about the benefits of ISO. It seems to me that they already have the benefits and then some! Or is the article trying to say that only through the wisdom of ISO can a constructive culture be achieved?
If you held the winning lottery ticket for the $290 million jackpot would you even care about registering into a program to make money?
I therefore have mixed emotions :confused: about the intent of the article.
I did not pay as much attention to the ISO part as the profitability differences, etc. that I think are much more important, as you suggest. The ISO part was of secondary interest.

In the OLD DAYS!!!

There were times when Managers and owners had to be persuaded that the various systems were viable and would be cost effective. Then the customer told them that they had to do it, which flies in the face of the individual who starts a business because he/she doesn't want to be told what to do.

I would find it hard to believe that in todays business climate that upper management does not know the benefits and act accordingly. Those owners/managers that do not want to do "the deed" obviously have a special product or agenda that allows them the freedom to bypass certain customer requirements.

As was a case at a preveous time in life I worked for a company that was owned by a stubborn individual. The quality was not that good and Masco threatened to remove their machines from the shop. He told them to hit the road and loaded up their machines and sent them to the nearest facility in Fraser and stopped supplying them. Within 2 days the machines were back and we had a different relationship with the customer.

Surely not the norm but a truth that can and did take place.

Al...

I would find it hard to believe that in todays business climate that upper management does not know the benefits and act accordingly. Those owners/managers that do not want to do "the deed" obviously have a special product or agenda that allows them the freedom to bypass certain customer requirements.


Al,

To me, this article and the issue isn't about ISO and what companies want to or don't want to get registered. It's about company culture (for which top management is responsible) and how it affects all aspects of the company from employee satisfaction to profitability and survivability.

With all due respect, I do not find it hard to believe that there are management groups that are seriously ignorant of both the benefits and negatives of ISO/ISO registration but about many other issues as well. I see it too often, and hear of it too often, to think otherwise. A few months ago I did a poll here and asked people to rate their companies and a significant portion rated their companies as less than good, let alone excellent. I realize this is all anecdotal, but personal experience combined with many studies I have read over the years and the article mentioned above, I believe that there are indeed many, many management groups running highly sub-optimal organizations even today in our supposedly "enlightened" age.

Am I just being a pessimist? I don't think so. But, JMO.

Mike,

Maybe I'm just turning into an optimist over time. With all the information available these days it seems to be that any person that makes it to an upper management position in a company would know about even basics in quality like Deming, Juran, Cosby etc...

There was a discussion thread quite awhile ago where I took some heat for agreeing that businesses (management) are in place to make money. It can be found through a search I'm sure.

Of course knowledge and application are two different animals.

Have a good one Mike!!:agree1:

Al...

Mike,

Maybe I'm just turning into an optimist over time. With all the information available these days it seems to be that any person that makes it to an upper management position in a company would know about even basics in quality like Deming, Juran, Cosby etc...


Al,

Although one would think that what you said would be true, I can personally attest to the fact that this is not the case. In a company that I know, the current quality manager does not even have a quality background, he has never worked in the quality field before. Heck, he's not even familiar with what a FMEA is or it's purpose. He was hired because a close relative of his knew the owner, plain and simple. There were at least 3 other people interviewed for the position that were, by far, much more qualified, but not hired. I don't kid myself about corporate attitudes, there are still by far too many a "good ole boy" organizations out there, JMHO.

Jonell

Mike,

Maybe I'm just turning into an optimist over time. With all the information available these days it seems to be that any person that makes it to an upper management position in a company would know about even basics in quality like Deming, Juran, Cosby etc...

There was a discussion thread quite awhile ago where I took some heat for agreeing that businesses (management) are in place to make money. It can be found through a search I'm sure.

Of course knowledge and application are two different animals.

Have a good one Mike!!:agree1:

Al...

Al, About a year ago I was tasked to make a presentation regarding QMS to management personnel (including exec's). At one point during the presentation I heard myself asking the group (about 20 folks ranging from sales to engineering, etc) if any had heard of Demings 14 principles and specifically the one about removing "Fear". Two raised their hands.
Given that I must assert that most managers dont know about such things! :nope:
There is however hope for the future. I recently saw the VP reading an article on lean!

Al, About a year ago I was tasked to make a presentation regarding QMS to management personnel (including exec's). At one point during the presentation I heard myself asking the group (about 20 folks ranging from sales to engineering, etc) if any had heard of Demings 14 principles and specifically the one about removing "Fear". Two raised their hands.
Given that I must assert that most managers dont know about such things! http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/no.gif
There is however hope for the future. I recently saw the VP reading an article on lean!Interesting topic. The smaller of my two ASQ Sections (only 700 to 800 members) is in the process of addressing this situation of "know nothings" [about Quality] in organizations.

One option we are working on is creating a Speakers Bureau of folks who can make the rounds of companies and the associations they belong to, making general "introduction to Quality" presentations. This is not an "instant fix" because we will have to survey our membership for candidates who can develop and present such general interest speeches, rather than the Quality Geek stuff we often present in our own section meetings which has the goal of helping members maintain continuous education credits.

Once we have the candidates in hand, we have to generate audiences.

The good news is we are being proactive. The harsh reality is it will be difficult to make it all mesh.

Note: we can see a benefit "down the road" in getting more ASQ members and more students for our classes on ISO, Lean, and 6S.

Ideas, anyone?