Do we have an ASQ operative here?

BTW...I didn't re-new my membership.

Just trying to do the right thing for our customers, members, and fellow quality individuals. If you want to consider me an operative, then so be it. I just want to have the ability to support our efforts and the efforts of individuals who need to be heard.

ASQ Employee

Don't let Randy shake you. You are welcome here and your help is appreciated.

Just trying to do the right thing for our customers, members, and fellow quality individuals. If you want to consider me an operative, then so be it. I just want to have the ability to support our efforts and the efforts of individuals who need to be heard.

ASQ EmployeeThis Forum works a lot better than the ASQ one, doesn't it?
It certainly gets a lot more traffic because it's open to everyone.
Remember this especially - The software to run the Cove only cost 10% of the price of the Jive! software used by ASQ.

You'll also note most of the Moderators here use their own names, rather than hide in the anonymity of a "group name."

Welcome to the Cove!:bigwave:

This Forum works a lot better than the ASQ one, doesn't it?
It certainly gets a lot more traffic because it's open to everyone.
Remember this especially - The software to run the Cove only cost 10% of the price of the Jive! software used by ASQ.

It does appear to receive a more immediate response than some other forums I've participated in before. And the cost difference, just goes to prove that money does not always equate to success and satisfaction.

Another real world example of this is the budget for Toyota in Formula 1 racing. I believe their budget is higher than that of Ferrari and Toyota is near the basement.

Suddenly, some of those 8 Principles that ISO 9001:2000 is based on come to light. Leadership (aka Cove moderators) and Involvement of People (aka Cove willingness to share, teach, learn, debate, etc.) stand out in my mind.

You'll also note most of the Moderators here use their own names, rather than hide in the anonymity of a "group name."

Moderators, yes...but Users (like Mr./Ms. ASQ)? Don't know the statistics on that one. But there could be some logic behind Mr./Ms. ASQ's handle. The message comes across as being an employee of the organization, while ensuring some privacy (potentially for professional reasons).

My own reason for using RCBeyette was gender-based. I am not saying (nor implying) that the Cove discriminates against gender, but I have learned during both my academic and professional careers that there are still those out there that give less credit to words spoken by a female. Habit is to go by RCBeyette. Once I started feeling more comfortable with the Cove environment, I changed my signature to indicate "Roxane".

A lot of thought can go into why a person selects the handle that s/he will use. Personally, the lack of a "real" name does not bother me. We have many users with cute names, nicknames, numbers, etc. It all makes us distinctive here in the Cove. :D

It does appear to receive a more immediate response than some other forums I've participated in before. And the cost difference, just goes to prove that money does not always equate to success and satisfaction.

Another real world example of this is the budget for Toyota in Formula 1 racing. I believe their budget is higher than that of Ferrari and Toyota is near the basement.

Suddenly, some of those 8 Principles that ISO 9001:2000 is based on come to light. Leadership (aka Cove moderators) and Involvement of People (aka Cove willingness to share, teach, learn, debate, etc.) stand out in my mind.



Moderators, yes...but Users (like Mr./Ms. ASQ)? Don't know the statistics on that one. But there could be some logic behind Mr./Ms. ASQ's handle. The message comes across as being an employee of the organization, while ensuring some privacy (potentially for professional reasons).

My own reason for using RCBeyette was gender-based. I am not saying (nor implying) that the Cove discriminates against gender, but I have learned during both my academic and professional careers that there are still those out there that give less credit to words spoken by a female. Habit is to go by RCBeyette. Once I started feeling more comfortable with the Cove environment, I changed my signature to indicate "Roxane".

A lot of thought can go into why a person selects the handle that s/he will use. Personally, the lack of a "real" name does not bother me. We have many users with cute names, nicknames, numbers, etc. It all makes us distinctive here in the Cove. :D

A satisfied customer: from a perceived negative to a perceived positive.

This Forum works a lot better than the ASQ one, doesn't it?
It certainly gets a lot more traffic because it's open to everyone.
Remember this especially - The software to run the Cove only cost 10% of the price of the Jive! software used by ASQ.

You'll also note most of the Moderators here use their own names, rather than hide in the anonymity of a "group name."

Welcome to the Cove!:bigwave:

What is it about this board that you feel is so much better than the ASQ Discussion Boards? Is it the little emoticons you are able to insert, or is it the plethora of threads that have nothing to do with Quality (ex. the discussion on summer camping and the coffe break discussion)?

Being both an IT Professional and a Quality Professional, it seems to me that the ASQ Boards, even the older version, allowed you to read, write, and respond to posts. What else is there?

What is it about this board that you feel is so much better than the ASQ Discussion Boards? Is it the little emoticons you are able to insert, or is it the plethora of threads that have nothing to do with Quality (ex. the discussion on summer camping and the coffe break discussion)?

Being both an IT Professional and a Quality Professional, it seems to me that the ASQ Boards, even the older version, allowed you to read, write, and respond to posts. What else is there?http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/bigwave-d2.gif Welcome to the Cove! (how's that for good use of an emoticon?)

As an ASQ member, I can say several things which non-members cannot, simply because non-ASQ members do not have access to make a comparison themselves.

OLD ASQ Forums -

were not searchable;
moderators abdicated responsibility and some forums were never moderated;
navigation was confusing
usage by average ASQ member was next to nil
questions often went unanswered for months
ASQ staff did not respond to direct inquiries
For years, no effort was made to improve the ASQ forums
one ASQ staffer who made an effort to help was fired and his posts deleted.
NEW ASQ Forums -

Search function is problematic (try searching "Bucey" and compare number of hits (6 at 3:09 pm CDT) with my total posts (47))
All forums are not available to all users, even the forum having to do with Discussion Board Suggestions (http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/forum.jspa?forumID=40) is not open to all users
The software was purchased at a cost ten times what Cove software costs after ASQ staffers ignored suggestions by users on several software packages available at low cost
Current ASQ staff does not follow its own rule in replying within 24 hours for Forum-related questions (some questions have gone unanswered [ignored?] for weeks)
I am particularly incensed because ASQ staffers paid through my dues and purchases are ignoring me and other folks (customers) trying to use the ASQ forums to help ASQ members. You can bet your sweet bippy no employee under my management simply ignores a customer! Those who do soon get re-educated or re-located!<!-- Forum Description (if it exists) -->

Nothing makes it 'better'. It is simply different. As for the 'details, if you're a minimalist all you need is the old 'BBS' software such as BBS PC. PC users back in the 1980's, when I ran BBS PC on an Amiga, were 'Wildcat' fans. I really liked Wildcat but it was a PC only program - no Amiga port - and i was a Mac / Amiga fanatic. After using MooseDOS I had little use for a Mickeysoft PC.

Some folks want 'more' - For a number of reasons. I have a 1995 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi. I love it's built in compass. Do I 'need' it? No. I have fallen in LOVE with it's windshield display of speed and such (Heads Up display). Do I 'Need' it? Nope. Not really.

But - Are these 'extras' nice? To me, yes they are. We all decide what we want to feel comfortable. the 'extras' vBulletin has are just that - Extras.

I guess my question to you would be: What is the down side of the 'Extras'?

Nothing makes it 'better'. It is simply different. As for the 'details, if you're a minimalist all you need is the old 'BBS' software such as BBS PC. PC users back in the 1980's, when I ran BBS PC on an Amiga, were 'Wildcat' fans. I really liked Wildcat but it was a PC only program - no Amiga port - and i was a Mac / Amiga fanatic. After using MooseDOS I had little use for a Mickeysoft PC.

Some folks want 'more' - For a number of reasons. I have a 1995 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi. I love it's built in compass. Do I 'need' it? No. I have fallen in LOVE with it's windshield display of speed and such (Heads Up display). Do I 'Need' it? Nope. Not really.

But - Are these 'extras' nice? To me, yes they are. We all decide what we want to feel comfortable. the 'extras' vBulletin has are just that - Extras.

I guess my question to you would be: What is the down side of the 'Extras'?

I agree that nothing makes one better versus the other. And I agree that there are some people who prefer extras. I am not trying to start any fights, I am simply trying to understand why there are certain people both here and on the ASQ Discussion board, that go the extra mile to berate and belittle users/members and feel that simply because they pay dues to a society, that they own that society and everything that society does. I belong to several societies and organizations, but never have I thought that I own that society, or that I am in charge of hiring and firing the people that run that organization.

Please help me to understand this logic.


Thank you,

Jordan Martone

And the cost difference, just goes to prove that money does not always equate to success and satisfaction.
Since attachments are free {since I started the Google advertisements last December}, it's rare to see a 'Contribution' {one or two a month}, but the Google Ads help A LOT. So remember to 'Check Out' an advertiser when you visit. You never know what ideas you might get...

Or - Become a Contributor for US$25 a year and help out!

What is it about this board that you feel is so much better than the ASQ Discussion Boards? Is it the little emoticons you are able to insert, or is it the plethora of threads that have nothing to do with Quality (ex. the discussion on summer camping and the coffe break discussion)?

Being both an IT Professional and a Quality Professional, it seems to me that the ASQ Boards, even the older version, allowed you to read, write, and respond to posts. What else is there?Let us inquire, mujmm14, as to what motivated you to sign up and register for the Cove? We're happy to have you and any expertise you can offer to us here in the Cove.

What was there lacking in the ASQ Forum that made you look for another venue?

Did you come out of curiosity after reading comments by folks who are dual members of both the Cove and ASQ Forums? What was so compelling about their comments if that was the primary factor?

Did you come as a result of an internet search for a topic about Quality? If that was the reason, why weren't you able to find what you needed in the ASQ Forum?

As a web developer (your Profile), have you ever done work for ASQ? (we like to disclose any ties or connections when we discuss a specific company here in the Cove - same thing over in the ASQ Forums)

As of this writing, you've made two posts - very good and interesting ones at that - I hope we see many more from you.

NEW ASQ Forums

Search function is problematic (try searching "Bucey" and compare number of hits (6 at 3:09 pm CDT) with my total posts (47))

Functionality is possible to search by author in the advanced search; the general search only searches the content field. Therefore, if you are quoted in a thread you will see that as your hits.


All forums are not available to all users, even the forum having to do with Discussion Board Suggestions (http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/forum.jspa?forumID=40) is not open to all users

This was a business decision to help ASQ implement a new Member model which incorporates numerous levels of benefit. One that was voted on by the board of directors. Therefore ASQ employees, with the benefit of customer research, much of what was done one on one with various member organizations around the US by Paul Borawski, advised the board so that they could change, update, and eventually pass the initiative.

One of these member models is forum membership. It is essential to support this model, and the reasons behind why people pay for these benefits by keeping some of the boards private to each forum, and each forum membership type. Thus the forum membership type.

The software was purchased at a cost ten times what Cove software costs after ASQ staffers ignored suggestions by users on several software packages available at low cost


The Jive Software was purchased because the package fulfilled our requirements without adding an additional staff member to program, adjust, or change it often. The cost of the software was minimal to the addition of another employee and benefits to support.


Current ASQ staff does not follow its own rule in replying within 24 hours for Forum-related questions (some questions have gone unanswered [ignored?] for weeks)


The Forum-related questions must be revised to have further definition. Your questions in regards to the organizations efforts far outweigh the individual power of the employees that monitor the board to answer. Therefore, time must be given to have the appropriate parties answer your questions.I am particularly incensed because ASQ staffers paid through my dues and purchases are ignoring me and other folks (customers) trying to use the ASQ forums to help ASQ members. You can bet your sweet bippy no employee under my management simply ignores a customer! Those who do soon get re-educated or re-located!<!-- Forum Description (if it exists) -->
We are not ignoring you Wes, I came here to help you and other individuals understand us more, and to make an effort to communicate in an area that can possibly shed a positive light on ASQ and its employees. I don't like getting bashed on a daily basis about how I'm your employee and I'm not fulfilling your needs. I don't like being told that my work is junk on a daily basis in our discussion boards. I believe that I can make change, and I believe that I am a good Quality worker, and I believe under ASQ's situation we are a good organization, but like others we are not perfect, but are working hard to get close.

However I hope to bring about some change by being able to communicate to both cove members, and pass this information on to the internal organization as a whole to be more effective with our attempts at fulfilling customer’s needs.

ASQ Employee

I am simply trying to understand why there are certain people both here and on the ASQ Discussion board, that go the extra mile to berate and belittle users/members and feel that simply because they pay dues to a society, that they own that society and everything that society does. I belong to several societies and organizations, but never have I thought that I own that society, or that I am in charge of hiring and firing the people that run that organization.

Please help me to understand this logic.
People who pay money have expectations - Whether they are 'Right' or 'Wrong' is an individual preference / belief. In a 'forum' environment, personalities can play a significant part. I don't see it as people want to 'own' an organization. I see it as people saying "I pay every year - What am I getting in return?" Personally, I don't expect the ASQ to provide a forum environment like we have here. I visited the ASQ forums in the past and to me they were practically useless so I simply stopped visiting.

I have communicated with those involved here, including Moderators, to STOP what I consider 'In Your Face' posts. I also said it is NOT my intent to stop criticism of the ASQ. It IS my intent to 'enforce' decorum. The Vice-President of the US may 'feel good' after using profanity, for example, but that is NOT acceptable here, even when it's done 'on the sly'. Nor are 'In Your face' personal attack posts acceptable.

I agree that nothing makes one better versus the other. And I agree that there are some people who prefer extras. I am not trying to start any fights, I am simply trying to understand why there are certain people both here and on the ASQ Discussion board, that go the extra mile to berate and belittle users/members and feel that simply because they pay dues to a society, that they own that society and everything that society does. I belong to several societies and organizations, but never have I thought that I own that society, or that I am in charge of hiring and firing the people that run that organization.

Please help me to understand this logic.


Thank you,

Jordan MartoneAs you are aware, I am a user of both ASQ and the Cove. I freely admit there are many posts in both the old and new ASQ forums which berate the lack of staff response and/or action, but never berate the individual, only the activity or lack of activity.

In regard to berating users, the fact that moderators did not do an adequate job of moderating led some employment recruiters to highjack the old ASQ Career corner and they got justly berated for using it as a free targeted advertising medium. That took a while to resolve and finally, after repeated phone calls and emails to ASQ staff, the offending posts were deleted.

Other incidents directly attributable to lack of moderator intervention involved identical posts in multiple forums (effectively spamming the entire discussion forum.)

Some of those were just newbies confused by the lack of direction and they were normally dealt with in a gentle fashion. Some others were not asking "how to" questions, but merely posting broadside diatribes in multiple forums. Some forum members objected - the number of those instances can be counted on the fingers of one hand. One broadside poster cried when he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and went off in a huff. I don't recall him ever making a post in response to someone's query for help, only his broadside and his subsequent departing shot. (If you are curious, I would be happy to dig the exchange out of the archives and let everyone judge the truth or falsity of my depiction.)


In regard to being a member and feeling a sense of ownership and a voice in what the paid employees do - ABSOLUTELY!
Expecting paid employees to be responsive to members - ABSOLUTELY!
Expecting the society operations to be reflective of the ostensible principles of the Society (e.g. customer-centric operations, root cause investigations, corrective action, etc.) - ABSOLUTELY!
If I were a contributing member of a church congregation and I found out the choir director was taking kickbacks on the purchase of choir robes and running a brothel out of the choir loft, would I feel the right to do something about it? - ABSOLUTELY!

BTW, I do like these forums a lot, I belong to another much like this in regards to a passion of mine: www.sv1000.zyns.com.

I hope that I can bring help to those people who have problems with ASQ, and I hope to answer those problems effectively. If at any point and time you wish to contact me directly, PM me and I'd be more than happy to talk to appropriate parties internally with your inquiries. Much like the nature of the Salery Survey thread. An individual had a customer problem, and we were able to resolve it. That is my only hope, to provide quality customer service, and be aware of our problems as an organization.

BTW, I do like these forums a lot, I belong to another much like this in regards to a passion of mine: www.sv1000.zyns.com.
That's the same software I use here but they're using a 'Portal' for the 'Entry {Landing} Page'. I have been debating whether to use 'portal' software for a couple of years. So far I'm sticking with the 'simple' entry page.

I will say that's a very nice job on the site you linked to.

ASQ currently uses ORACLE Portal software, and it has taken us awhile to get up to speed on it. We've had numerous trial and error issues to deal with, but we're finally getting somewhere. It's exciting software to use, and the functionality and personalization is amazing.

We are light years from when we initially launched in July of 2003, but we still have a way to go. We upgrade to 10g next month, and the functionality it supports will be essential in delivering customizable content for users online.

After a year of using the software, hardware, and database, we are finally able to interpret the package and apply it here. It's amazing the shere amount of content this organization has online. The problem is delivering it effectively.

I'd go the way of Portal, because it truly gives the user the sense that they are in control of every aspect of their experience online. Sort of like http://www.excite.com/, completely customizable.

What is it about this board that you feel is so much better than the ASQ Discussion Boards? Is it the little emoticons you are able to insert, or is it the plethora of threads that have nothing to do with Quality (ex. the discussion on summer camping and the coffe break discussion)?

Being both an IT Professional and a Quality Professional, it seems to me that the ASQ Boards, even the older version, allowed you to read, write, and respond to posts. What else is there?
Hi Jordan and Welcome to the Cove,

You addressed a VERY important issue here....Why we feel the Cove is "better".

IMHO...it is not a matter of being better...but a matter of accessability (sp). Anyone with access to an internet connection can enter the Cove. The same can not be said for the ASQ site. Yes, there are a couple of boards open to the general public, but it is not fully open. I believe ASQ should be a society that shares info freely and accross all domains....not limited to which group you bought into. Personally, I will not post on a question on the ASQ boards. I don't want to limit the potential responses to those that are memebers. I appreciate input from all over.

All the bells and whistles here are cute...and the emoticons can help convey emotion. Are they neccessary...no, but they do serve a purpose. Do I come to the Cove because of these features......NO!!! I come for the sharing of information.

Carol

I first must state I was amazed to find this thread occurring. :applause: I am also glad to see an ASQ staff presence in the discussion. This is quite unique.

I think we need to separate ASQ general direction frustrations from the discussion boards. I will state (and have stated otherwise) that the current "Living Strategy" appears to be heading off in a different direction than that recommended by the "Partnership Study". I think ASQ documented a lot of lessons learned from the Six Sigma Academy "partnership", but has chosen to ignore those lessons. I also think ASQ in many cases is turning its back on the traditional quality "professionals" and heading off into the ether. Perhaps this is good, perhaps it is not.

With that said, I think the new ASQ discussion boards are a good step forward. I think the only true controversy at the moment is a business decision about whether or not the discussion boards should be a "member benefit" or be open to the public. Marc accepts advertisting and does a lot of work out of his own initiative (and pocket I assume). As an ASQ member, I pay dues to ASQ. If I can get services such as the discussion board without having to pay anything, that is one less reason to pay dues to ASQ. And right now, the "Ask A Quality Professional" board is out there for the general public, and could be used to carry on just about any discussion. If you want to discuss Six Sigma, you could bring it up there. So then, what purpose is the Six Sigma board that is only open to ASQ Statistics division members?

I don't want to portray this board and the ASQ board as being in "competition". But I do think that ASQ (and the various discussion boards) need to consider what they "are" from a branding (Tom Peters) point of view. I see positive movement at ASQ, and I personally have my own challenges as a Section Chair within ASQ of a rural section.

Steve Prevette
ASQ Section 614 Chair

BTW, if anyone is interested we are hiring in my Department/Work Group, your chance to become a member/nonmember and an employee, that way you can yell at yourself. :bonk:

One thing interesting about the ASQ job descriptions - not a single one of them call for a background in Quality. Not even as "nice to have". No call for an ASQ certification.

One description at least uses the word "quality" in terms of maintaining a "high quality" web site, but I just find this state of affairs interesting (and I have pointed this out on the ASQ board). Please do not infer anything negative in this observation as to existing staff, but I think this is an interesting insight into the ASQ internal policies and culture.

- Steve Prevette

One thing interesting about the ASQ job descriptions - not a single one of them call for a background in Quality. Not even as "nice to have". No call for an ASQ certification.

One description at least uses the word "quality" in terms of maintaining a "high quality" web site, but I just find this state of affairs interesting (and I have pointed this out on the ASQ board). Please do not infer anything negative in this observation as to existing staff, but I think this is an interesting insight into the ASQ internal policies and culture.

- Steve PrevetteSee, folks?
I don't seem to be the only one to rant about various issues at ASQ.
Steve and I are not a "tag team" on many issues. He and I disagree strongly about what should be open and what should not on the ASQ website. We seem to agree that affairs at ASQ were way out of kilter until recently. We seem to disagree on how much improvement has occurred.

I favor the root cause as paid staff having usurped the power of the dues-paying members to monitor and effect changes in operations. Often, in past years, I have had the impression some elected officials at the national level have been more interested in adding a notch to their resumes than in inaugurating any changes which would truly benefit members at the Section level. Many members have voted with their feet by not renewing memberships.

What is the solution, if any? First we have to really define the "problems" and nonconformances before we can do an adequate root cause investigation. Once we determine the root causes, common causes, and special causes, then we can start making Corrective and Preventive Action Plans.

The biggest question remains, "Who cares?" In other words, has ASQ lost relevance? We see ISO dragging its feet on reporting registrations for the year 2003, when we are in the seventh month of 2004. This, despite the fact ISO created an artificial deadline of December, 2003, for upgrade to ISO9k2k. Is this a sign of general malaise in Quality institutions?

Whatever my experience and knowledge, I cannot be the tail that wags the dog, alone. Only through venues like the Cove can folks of like mind meet and formulate strategies, IF they agree on problems and causes.

We seem to agree that affairs at ASQ were way out of kilter until recently. We seem to disagree on how much improvement has occurred.

Hey, at least June 2004 wasn't "Six Sigma Month" like it was last year at ASQ :yes:

One thing interesting about the ASQ job descriptions - not a single one of them call for a background in Quality. Not even as "nice to have". No call for an ASQ certification.

One description at least uses the word "quality" in terms of maintaining a "high quality" web site, but I just find this state of affairs interesting (and I have pointed this out on the ASQ board). Please do not infer anything negative in this observation as to existing staff, but I think this is an interesting insight into the ASQ internal policies and culture.

- Steve Prevette

Being an IT Professional and a Website Designer, I challenge you to find a Quality Certification that deals with the design and development of a Website and Internet related technologies. There is no such thing.

I was recently given the task to develop a Quality Assurance plan for my workgroup. After several days of exhaustive research, I ended up with very little useful information. There is no Quality Standard for Web Design, and the only thing that resembles a governing body for Web Standards would be the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C). And I find it ironic that the W3C's website is one of the hardest to navigate and use.

I guess my point is, that there are certain areas within an organization such as ASQ, where a Quality background is not needed, or even offered, to do Quality work. With the ever changing technology and the unlimited number of different user configurations, you can only design for the majority.

If anyone out there has a way to apply a Quality processes to Website Design, I would love to hear about it.

Thanks,

Jordan Martone

I guess my point is, that there are certain areas within an organization such as ASQ, where a Quality background is not needed, or even offered, to do Quality work. With the ever changing technology and the unlimited number of different user configurations, you can only design for the majority.

If anyone out there has a way to apply a Quality processes to Website Design, I would love to hear about it.

Thanks,

Jordan Martone
My point is more along the lines that these folks being hired will be designing web sites and discussion boards that will (hopefully) be used by lots of happy quality professionals. I believe it would help if they had some knowledge of quality principles so they could talk the same "language" and better interface with ASQ members.

For example, the editors of the magazine "Model Railroader" (Kalmbach publishing) tend to be model railroaders themselves. Being a model railroader doesn't make you a better magazine editor, but it helps in providing a good product to be read by model railroaders.

Little Insight to ASQ's employment process:

Part of ASQ's Employment process is to bring employees up to speed, not necessarily the speed to contribute in intense quality discussions - as you suggest in the forum arena (usually left up to our volunteers, and quality professional members in the sections, forums to administer), but enough to understand basic quality principles.

ASQ has their employees enroll in the Q101 e-learning training and requires that it is passed within 6 months.

ASQ also has an Explorer Process which not only gives you 6 weeks of in depth ASQ training but a look into the history of ASQ and Quality, as well as the different quality arenas ASQ is involved in.

Finally, ASQ offers yearly training that implements many quality tools. This years training was around Critical Thinking. ASQ employees are also encouraged to take advantage of the certification system, one of which is highly encouraged is the CQIA certification.

I believe it would be very difficult to find a professional marketer, a professional print designer, a professional web designer, a professional IT developer/LAN Admin, and a professional sales person who comes in with the qualifications of having the sort of certifications ASQ offers. It is very rare for someone to come in with these tools. Something ASQ is trying to communicate to the general public, the importance of these tools - even outside of the quality profession. Quality is everywhere, in every facet of everyone's job.

Just my $0.02

ASQ Employee.

My point is more along the lines that these folks being hired will be designing web sites and discussion boards that will (hopefully) be used by lots of happy quality professionals. I believe it would help if they had some knowledge of quality principles so they could talk the same "language" and better interface with ASQ members.

For example, the editors of the magazine "Model Railroader" (Kalmbach publishing) tend to be model railroaders themselves. Being a model railroader doesn't make you a better magazine editor, but it helps in providing a good product to be read by model railroaders.

I am actually going to have to disagree with you on this one. Not everyone who edits a magazine is involved in that field. I have a background in Instructional Design and one of the golden rules of Instructional Design is "experts make the worst teachers". Have you ever had an IT professional try to teach you how to fix a computer issue? They usually tell you to move and do it themselves. There is a funny Saturday Night Live skit about this.

The problem with being an expert in any given field, is that many of the steps and processes that you use, become automatic, you assume that everyone is at your level. A website designer does not have to know the ins and outs of the quality field; they only have to know how to build a quality website, and how to provide support to those that use the website. I don't need to be a Six Sigma Blackbelt, to help a member troubleshoot an internet connectivity issue. Not being an expert allows you to communicate more effectively using simple language and not get caught using Industry/Niche specific terms and principles.

Does a customer service department have to know the "lingo" of the quality world? ABSOLUTLEY! Does the sales force have to know the "lingo" of the quality world? OF COURSE! Their jobs depend on the fact that they can communicate effectively with a member/customer.

Okay, I give. I simply don't see why none of the jobs posted for ASQ staff state "experience in the quality field a plus". I do acknowledge a number of the staff have put a lot of work into getting and maintaining knowledge and certifications once they are hired. It is just that I find the wording of job postings can tell you a lot about an organization.

:topic:
For example, the editors of the magazine "Model Railroader" (Kalmbach publishing) tend to be model railroaders themselves. Being a model railroader doesn't make you a better magazine editor, but it helps in providing a good product to be read by model railroaders.

Besides, Model Railroader used to claim "Model railroading is fun" on their magazine's cover.

Will ASQ claim anything close to this?

Jaime

Yes, there are a couple of boards open to the general public, but it is not fully open. I believe ASQ should be a society that shares info freely and accross all domains....not limited to which group you bought into. Personally, I will not post on a question on the ASQ boards. I don't want to limit the potential responses to those that are memebers. I appreciate input from all over.l

I understand the idea of wanting the information to be free flowing across all areas. I agree that BASIC quality information should be available to all who seek it. However, IMHO...the whole point of being a member of a certain organization or a forum/division of that organization is to obtain a sense of community and belonging to that specific industry or topic. The whole principle behind a certification is that I spent the time and effort, and made the commitment, to study, learn, and apply knowledge, that can only be gained by going through a specific process. I also understand ASQ's reasoning behind making certain areas of the discussion board limited to specific Forum/Division members. For example, If I have a question about ISO-9000, it is reassuring to me to know that only people with real-world experience and in-depth knowledge are going to be responding to and answering my question. You are able to narrow down your results to only the stuff you want.

Yes these boards have some interesting areas, the coffee-break area and the humor area are a good way to waste some time, but I don't all of that is needed in a true Industry/Topic specific discussion.

:topic:


Besides, Model Railroader used to claim "Model railroading is fun" on their magazine's cover.

Will ASQ claim anything close to this?

Jaime


LMAO!!!!!!!

:lmao:

We get close, stay tuned on August 2, new ad campaign and slogan.

Being an IT Professional and a Website Designer, I challenge you to find a Quality Certification that deals with the design and development of a Website and Internet related technologies. There is no such thing.Hang on a minute.

http://www.iqa.org/press/c2-26.shtml

http://www.elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/smile-a1.gif
Regards,
Simon

Thank You. I really appreciate the information.

But that certifes the Website, not the designer. Do you know of anything that will certify a person that designs and develops Web technologies? (Besides Micro$oft!)

As a web developer (your Profile), have you ever done work for ASQ? (we like to disclose any ties or connections when we discuss a specific company here in the Cove - same thing over in the ASQ Forums)


Wes,

You can inquire all you want, and I am sure you have your assumptions already. Since I do not know if my company prefers I don't disclose publicly, let's just say for personal and professional reasons, I prefer not to disclose this information. Besides, not to play any immature games, but you don't disclose who you work for in your profile.

Little Insight to ASQ's employment process:

Part of ASQ's Employment process is to bring employees up to speed, not necessarily the speed to contribute in intense quality discussions - as you suggest in the forum arena (usually left up to our volunteers, and quality professional members in the sections, forums to administer), but enough to understand basic quality principles.

ASQ has their employees enroll in the Q101 e-learning training and requires that it is passed within 6 months.

ASQ also has an Explorer Process which not only gives you 6 weeks of in depth ASQ training but a look into the history of ASQ and Quality, as well as the different quality arenas ASQ is involved in.

Finally, ASQ offers yearly training that implements many quality tools. This years training was around Critical Thinking. ASQ employees are also encouraged to take advantage of the certification system, one of which is highly encouraged is the CQIA certification.

I believe it would be very difficult to find a professional marketer, a professional print designer, a professional web designer, a professional IT developer/LAN Admin, and a professional sales person who comes in with the qualifications of having the sort of certifications ASQ offers. It is very rare for someone to come in with these tools. Something ASQ is trying to communicate to the general public, the importance of these tools - even outside of the quality profession. Quality is everywhere, in every facet of everyone's job.

Just my $0.02

ASQ Employee.Golly, talk about "thin skins!"

I would prefer to have a dispassionate discussion rather than a heated argument.

Is there anyone currently backing the ASQ point of view [that ASQ is very good and responsive] who is willing to describe the ASQ website of one year ago as incorporating much of even the WWW3 Standards? In my opinion, the design and navigation were pretty bad. The one thing I agree worked extremely well was the "store" to buy books, tools, Standards, etc. I used it often and it worked great! The supply chain after the purchase (delivery and followup for customer satisfaction) was also in a league with Amazon. I'm not certain the search function was "useful" back then and I haven't tried it since the new design features were incorporated in the website.

If we can come to agreement that the website then was NOT reflective of a Quality organization, perhaps we can come to agreement about the mechanisms for evaluating the current website and mechanisms for ensuring the points of view of OTHER experts [non-ASQ staffers] are heard and evaluated for incorporation into the site.

Disclaimer:
For a period in my life, I was a major stockholder and officer of a profitable website. I had to hire and fire experts as employees and consultants on a regular basis. I agree the fast-paced world of web ventures requires website operators to "shoot from the hip" or suffer "analysis paralysis." However, the successful operators look everywhere for successful models and advice and continually improve their sites. (Sound like a familiar term?)

I submit that basic Quality tools can be used successfully in website development by folks who really recognize how and when to use a Quality tool. IT folks sometimes hearken back to the mindset of "Big Iron" technicians of the 70's who ran around in super air-conditioned rooms full of big iron, wearing cute white lab coats. The mindset then was "This stuff is too complicated for mere mortals to understand. Trust us, we are the experts."

Problem is that mindset resulted in the "millenium crisis" because date years were only entered as two-digit numbers. If, however, some folks with a voice in the process had done a little FMEA (Failure Mode Evaluation Analysis) or "mistake proofing" the crisis might never have happened.

The primary complaint some folks have against "mickey soft" boils down to saying the ms engineers are still ignoring FMEA and mistake proofing in their software designs.

I recall in our own website that it took us nearly 6 months to discover and disconnect all the "back doors" various employees had set up despite a specific proscription against the practice. None of those employees thought he/she had done anything wrong because "it was to make our work easier." They didn't understand about social engineering. One defective thinker even made his back door password "backdoor."

My theory, honed on tough experience, is that the process of creating and maintaining a website requires lots of sunshine. As soon as a clique gets the mindset "they know best" is when the site deteriorates.

Consider a comparison with any major corporation fraud or just plain screwup of the recent past.
KMart - thought they could get by by buying inferior merchandise and deferring maintenance on stores to make a short-term boost in profits to raise the stock value.

Tyco - thought they could use the corporate funds as their own since they "were the reason the corporation is profitable."

Enron - they and their bankers operated under the theory "we're smarter than everyone else, it's fair to charge everyone a little more so we can make a big profit. Since that's fair, it's OK to manipulate the markets to make even more for ourselves."

and so on, and so on.

So how does this long-winded discourse relate to Quality at the various ASQ features of its website?
1) Many feel the ASQ is not truly following ISO9k2k precepts of determining customer satisfaction. Do the staffers even realize who their "customers" are?

2) Without strong input from Quality-knowledgeable people, simple Quality tools are ignored and momentum carries the enterprise out of control.

3) Focus on:

root causes of member drain,
common cause of lack of recognition of ASQ in general corporate executive suites, and
continual evaluation of other sites (benchmarks)
is a simple use of Quality tools to maintain "continual improvement."

4) Paid staff must adopt a greater respect for the rank and file ASQ member. Lack of respect is one of the reasons I hear for non-renewal of membership. (The insiders at ENRON, TYCO, and KMART had no respect for the rank and file employees of their organizations and subsequently the entire house of cards came tumbling down.)

Well, this discussion sure is heading off into some interesting directions.

I do want to acknowledge it is a good thing that ASQ staffer(s) are here. In fact, I may have precipitated it a number of months ago when I suggested in a phone call that someone should come on over and take a look on the Cove about what is being said about ASQ. I am not sure about the need for anonymity, but I will respect it. I know that the ASQ staffers here cannot speak for ASQ policy, so I assume they are careful not to say anything that will be quoted back as "ASQ Says So".

Myself, I have a challenge as an unabashed Demingite in fulfilling the role of a Section Chair. I have been criticized in the past for being seen as "only statistics is important" and that being "bad" for the section. As a Section Chair, I have to be careful, and in fact will go overboard in trying to get opposing view points to write articles for the section newsletter or try to get them to speak at a dinner meeting.

Fortunately Fluor corporation values professional development and publishing, so I don't feel like I need to be careful about my employment ties.
Oh well, just an interesting Friday.

4) Paid staff must adopt a greater respect for the rank and file ASQ member. Lack of respect is one of the reasons I hear for non-renewal of membership. (The insiders at ENRON, TYCO, and KMART had no respect for the rank and file employees of their organizations and subsequently the entire house of cards came tumbling down.)

Now that hurts. Guess it's time to find a new job, or go independant and finally start my own company before the cards come tumbling down. :bonk:

You have valid issues which are of concern to a great many employees at my peer level. It is my hope that change occurs, and I feel like we're moving forward, but slowly.

I know that the ASQ staffers here cannot speak for ASQ policy, so I assume they are careful not to say anything that will be quoted back as "ASQ Says So".

I by no means am an expert on ASQ policy, nor would I ever speak to it outside of my role as an ASQ employee.

I work on the web side of things developing, designing and maintaining ASQ's web properties. Web Offerings, under the direction of the organization, and with coordination from IT (infrastructure and back-end coding) act on the organizations business goals.

My role extends beyond just that though, and is involved with Customer Care as well. I provide Customer Care Level 2 support for our members and customers. Therefore if there is an issue that our level one can not resolve, I handle it. I have been a spectator of the cove for the past year, and had not posted due to the lack of need, until now.

I saw the post about the email that went out from our organization, and I found this as an opportunity to help a customer/member. I think that my role here is to listen, and to contribute. By no way, shape, or form do I embody a position of power, or a position of policy. Consider me a worker bee just trying to do my best for the organization and it's members/customers.

:(

I'm a "newbie" here, so maybe folks will not take kindly to what I'm about to say. But, I feel a little sad about the tone and direction of this thread. (I am glad Marc made his comments about "in your face", etc., since it's important that people feel they can have spirited debate, without personalization or stronger personalities taking over a discussion. If that ever happened, I believe this forum would suffer, which effects everyone. I noticed a seperate thread about why the cove hasn't heard from some people in a while. Hmmm.)

I fully appreciate and support everyone's right to express their opinion (and welcome the opportunity to learn from all of you and hopefully, someday share something of value, from my own experience). While I don't necessary agree with every comment (who does), I really do enjoy reading the exchanges. However, the tone, remarks and "labeling" of some of these replies is exactly what makes me hesitate to participate and one of the reasons I will not give my real name (sad). I think people sometimes forget "it's not what you say, but how you say it" and unfortunately, one of the bad things about e-messaging is that the "interpretation" and tone of ones' words can get lost. Initially, I at least like to try to give everyone the benefit of a doubt without trying to "peg" them. When the ASQ person voluntarily accessed this site, his/her comments really seemed to indicate he/she was going above and beyond the call of duty to try to help, in any way he/she could. Personally, I don't think the posting of his/her name was relevant, as he/she was imparting job information on behalf of ASQ. (By the way, I enjoyed the ASQ Rep's comment about "..that way you can yell at yourself". Kind of a variation on "If you're not part of the solution, maybe your part of the problem"??)

I will be the first to agree that I'm not completely satisfied with ASQ (including the direction they are going in). IMHO, they have been more concerned about $$ and increasing membership, for a long time. However, I was embarassed reading some of the comments, which seemed to "shoot the messenger", as if he had any control over the larger organization's direction or decisions. I've seen similar comments about Registrar Auditors, which are also unfair (that's a whole other thread). I think some of us have forgotten that most of us are employees, who are carrying out our managements' wishes, not necessarily in full agreement with what the company's direction is nor what they expect us to do to support it (mind you, I'm not talking about anything that violates your personal, moral or ethical code). If you work for the rare company, that allows you to completely speak your mind, criticize them unmercilessly and fully supports your every action....bravo for you! But, that's not most of us. The ASQ Web Offerings CN may not necessarily be happy with his/her organizations' mandates, but I appreciate that I believe he/she is trying to serve the membership in the best way he/she can, given his/her environment and what little of it he/she may have control over.

The best any of us can do is to the best we can in a given environment. If we can't support or effectively change the situation, we have the right to accept it (i.e. do what I can, as I believe the ASQ Rep is trying to) or make a change (i.e. leave the company/association and move on or "vote your pocketbook" and not renew your membership). End of story.

Thank you, ASQ Web Offerings CN, for the announcement links for job offerings. Maybe your email will help someone deserving get the job! :applause:

And Thanks, to all the members of Cove and Marc for this lively and entertaining forum. :applause: Cheers!!

Yes, we have had to get away from the "get in your face" comments, so I won't tell the ASQ folks that I put my membership renewal stuff in the kitty litter box...

To show that I don't discriminate, I'm probably going to do the same with my ASSE membership next year.

It seems to me that "professional" organizations tend to slide you into a corner if you don't have your ticket punched with "their" alphabet at the end of your name. (Remember "Revenge of the Nerds" when the "nerds" tried to do the "Fraternity" thing? It's the same thing with professional organizations).

I noticed a seperate thread about why the cove hasn't heard from some people in a while. Hmmm.)
You'll have to take into consideration that these forums have been online for over 7 years - about 18 months after the site first went live. I daresay I doubt you will find any open forum which has been online continuously for as many years where all, or even most, of the original active participants are still around. That's not to say some folks haven't been offended from time to time and stopped coming by, and some people have been kicked off as a result of 'trouble making' but typically in an open forum environment there is always going to be someone offended by one or more posts.

Taken in context, that people come and go is expected and reality tells us that there will be people who will be offended from time to time. That's the nature of life.

I am personnally confused about ASQ Web Offerrings being present at the cove and on this thread offerred more responses then I remember being offerred at the ASQ forums. Also it seems they can respond in a timely fashion! How can this be? Do Web Offerrings feel more tuned in here at the cove then they do at their own site? Have they drove so many away from the ASQ site that they have to come here to gain insight as to the problems at home?
Well, OK! I can live with that! It at least shows some level of effort albeit that level should have been displayed at ASQ.
I welcome your presence! Thanks for coming. :applause:

I am part of the group that monitors the Discussion Boards at ASQ; however I am not the individual(s) that is/are responsible for answering questions and threads. As I stated in an earlier post, my role here is an extension of my second level help desk, to help with problems, and observe the outside persona of ASQ. Especially here at the cove, since it is such a valuable resource to Quality practitioners and a valuable resource that is quoted numerous times in ASQ's Discussion Boards.

Hope that helps you understand.

I am part of the group that monitors the Discussion Boards at ASQ; however I am not the individual(s) that is/are responsible for answering questions and threads. As I stated in an earlier post, my role here is an extension of my second level help desk, to help with problems, and observe the outside persona of ASQ. Especially here at the cove, since it is such a valuable resource to Quality practitioners and a valuable resource that is quoted numerous times in ASQ's Discussion Boards.

Hope that helps you understand.

But, what are you doing with the information/requests that are being posted here? Is that information actually being fedback to those that are responsible for answering the questions and threads, so that they can correct the issues being noted here?

But, what are you doing with the information/requests that are being posted here? Is that information actually being fedback to those that are responsible for answering the questions and threads, so that they can correct the issues being noted here?

The feedback and problems here are communicated through the proper channels at ASQ so that corrections can be made. It is then up to the content owner assigned at ASQ to resolve the issues.

I have forwarded comments on a weekly basis, at times daily, and then communicate to my department/workgroup any action items which directly relate to the areas we are responsible for.

Realize that the timely manner of my posts here are because of my responsibility, and are in no way, shape, or form reflective of the timely manner of posts on ASQ's discussion boards. I answer here personally and professionally as an individual and an ASQ professional employee.

ASQ content owners are held to the ASQ Discussion Board Policy, their adherence to that policy is an issue that is apparent both here and on the ASQ Discussion Boards, and has been communicated to the organization.

My :2cents:

I think I speak for most, if not all, of us in saying we welcome your visiting and addressing ASQ related issues.

My :2cents:

I think I speak for most, if not all, of us in saying we welcome your visiting and addressing ASQ related issues.

Thanks Marc.

I am part of the group that monitors the Discussion Boards at ASQ; however I am not the individual(s) that is/are responsible for answering questions and threads. As I stated in an earlier post, my role here is an extension of my second level help desk, to help with problems, and observe the outside persona of ASQ. Especially here at the cove, since it is such a valuable resource to Quality practitioners and a valuable resource that is quoted numerous times in ASQ's Discussion Boards.

Hope that helps you understand.

When I first started reading postings by ASQ Web Offerings, I assumed they were the official views of ASQ since that is also the anonymous name they have used for responses in their own board. ASQ may want to re-consider the practice since anyone reading these postings may think the person is speaking for ASQ rather the opinion of this anonymous poster.

It would have been nice if ASQ had responses from this anonymous person for the past year. At least we would have known that someone was actually reading the postings. Isn't it ironic that ASQ is using the Cove to observe "the outside persona of ASQ" when its own members have been willing to give their opinion directly through the ASQ boards.

I wish ASQ well but it is going to take some time before they catch up to the Cove even assuming it stays stagnant. Without a giant leap forward, ASQ may always find themselves a step behind. Just trying to catch up to where your competition (yes Marc you are that) is not a good strategic plan for any organization.

The best any of us can do is to the best we can in a given environment. If we can't support or effectively change the situation, we have the right to accept it (i.e. do what I can, as I believe the ASQ Rep is trying to) or make a change (i.e. leave the company/association and move on or "vote your pocketbook" and not renew your membership). End of story.

ASQ members don't work for the organization, they own it through their dues. Letting members leave who have complaints does not sound like a good game plan just because you don't want to be criticized. The assumption is that vocal board participants have not raised complaints through participation in polls, questionaires, and direct communication. It can be very difficult to get responses from ASQ and even when you do it is sometimes that is what we want to do, too bad if you disagree. It will be interesting to see if ASQ gets more members, stays flat or loses even more members with their new Living Model strategy.

If I have offended anyone with these views, it was totally unintentional and hopefully no one reads more into my thoughts than just MHO.

Bill Pflanz
(not an anonymous ASQ member)

ASQ members don't work for the organization, they own it through their dues. Letting members leave who have complaints does not sound like a good game plan just because you don't want to be criticized.
Bill Pflanz
(not an anonymous ASQ member)

The ASQ leadership may be quality guru's and world class "Q" experts, but they don't know squat about business management. The ASQ is a business and has to be managed as such. The hucksters running the show are asking their customers to go elsewhere and the numbers show that they are. This ASQ "crisis" is a classic example of the "TUNOPIA" syndrome I have identified in postings here, in print and in public all over the US and in Canada. "TUNOPIA" is a highly contagious and dangerous disease of the mind that eventually attacks the body's ability to act rationally in the decision making process.

Who's next up to bat?

ASQ members don't work for the organization, they own it through their dues. Letting members leave who have complaints does not sound like a good game plan just because you don't want to be criticized. The assumption is that vocal board participants have not raised complaints through participation in polls, questionaires, and direct communication. It can be very difficult to get responses from ASQ and even when you do it is sometimes that is what we want to do, too bad if you disagree. It will be interesting to see if ASQ gets more members, stays flat or loses even more members with their new Living Model strategy.

:eek: Unfortunately, I believe your response reflects you have completely misunderstood my comment. I was certainly not advocating "letting members leave who have complaints". All I was trying to do was support this poor guy, who is only the "messenger", since many of the responses seemed to be holding him accountable for things out of his control. I also don't agree that ASQ members who pay dues, necessarily "own it". (You buy stock in a company, you may have a vote in the running of it, but you certainly don't own it necessarily in a large enough block to control it. And if you don't like what the company is doing, you have the right to sell, hence my "vote your pocketbook" comment). As noted in my original comments, nobody is denying the fact that people are not happy with ASQ and that many of the comments noted here maybe truly justified. Personally, if people are that upset with them, Let's face it: Life is too short to deal with people/companies/organizations that make you miserable and there are alternatives to ASQ. I just was concerned about this poor guy who actually was trying to do something nice and, frankly, with the tone and direction of comments in this thread toward him, I wouldn't blame him if he never visited the cove again. JMHO

I don't think anyone has attacked our ASQ friend. Some of us may be a little right of center and that is what has irritated your apparent sensitivities.

Goodness me...some of us have not have been sweet and soft and politically correct :(

The ASQ, as well as most other professional organizatiions, is the embodiment of its membership. Historically as organizations grow larger and more complex, creating multiple levels of bureaucracy they start distancing themselves from the general body membership...Look at our own federal government. Two hundred years ago the average John "Q" Citizen could walk right into the White House, without and appointment, and talk to the President. Nowadays the same citizen probably can't even get a phone call in to his city councilman. The ASQ (remember it's not alone) has developed itself into the same thing.

One only has to look at things like periodicals, conference agendas and the like to see that the average "citizen" is out in the cold. How many of the articles that we have the privilage of reading here every month would really stand a snowball's chance of getting published in "Q Progress"? Most likely zip! They wouldn't be long enough, or of good enough "quaility" or technical enough, or the writers background may not be suitable, so on and so forth, blah, blah , blah.....

One only has to look at things like periodicals, conference agendas and the like to see that the average "citizen" is out in the cold. How many of the articles that we have the privilage of reading here every month would really stand a snowball's chance of getting published in "Q Progress"? Most likely zip! They wouldn't be long enough, or of good enough "quaility" or technical enough, or the writers background may not be suitable, so on and so forth, blah, blah , blah.....

Actually, the one "shining star" for me as an ASQ member is the current Quality Progress staff. From the editor down they are extremely helpful, and very encouraging of authors. I have published three papers with Quality Progress so far, and have an additional one in the queue as we speak. All were processed quickly by the staff, and comments were helpful and resolved quickly. I have not reprinted the papers here in the Cove as monthly submissions due to copyright restrictions. As far as I can tell, ASQ is pleading for practitioners (average citizens if you may) to submit papers. Fortunately, my employer is very supportive of publishing papers (we just had an awards breakfast this morning for authors, and I got another couple plaques to put on my I love me wall).

By the way, I am pretty sure I know who CN is, and we have had quite a few phone conversations over the past few years. I should point out to ASQ members the ASQ staff is just an 800 number away, and they are good to talk to. Now, granted I believe there are some "willing worker" issues, but I have no doubt that the individual staff members at ASQ are well-intentioned and knowledgeable.

The feedback and problems here are communicated through the proper channels at ASQ so that corrections can be made. It is then up to the content owner assigned at ASQ to resolve the issues.

I have forwarded comments on a weekly basis, at times daily, and then communicate to my department/workgroup any action items which directly relate to the areas we are responsible for.

Realize that the timely manner of my posts here are because of my responsibility, and are in no way, shape, or form reflective of the timely manner of posts on ASQ's discussion boards. I answer here personally and professionally as an individual and an ASQ professional employee.

ASQ content owners are held to the ASQ Discussion Board Policy, their adherence to that policy is an issue that is apparent both here and on the ASQ Discussion Boards, and has been communicated to the organization.

Let me ask if I may, what is your sense (or feeling) as to how ASQ receives these comments? What kind of vibes, :mad: or looks, :lmao: do you receive when conveying our comments to the ASQ?
Would you rate the reception as Positive? Or on a scale of 0 to 5, with 5 being extremely well received and 0 being not received at all, what would the rating be?
Just curious! I sense that you seem to want to reach out and perform well which is something i never sensed at the ASQ forums! :thanx:

Actually, the one "shining star" for me as an ASQ member is the current Quality Progress staff. From the editor down they are extremely helpful, and very encouraging of authors. I have published three papers with Quality Progress so far, and have an additional one in the queue as we speak. All were processed quickly by the staff, and comments were helpful and resolved quickly. As far as I can tell, ASQ is pleading for practitioners (average citizens if you may) to submit papers. Now, granted I believe there are some "willing worker" issues, but I have no doubt that the individual staff members at ASQ are well-intentioned and knowledgeable
As a member of the QP Editorial Review Board, I appreciate your comments. All of us who serve are unpaid members, but part of that foodchain that feels its' important to give back to the membership in any way we can. While we don't control what articles we're given to review, of the ones we receive we really try hard to fairly consider and screen out what might be unapplicable or uninformative to the membership. (You should see what DOESN'T get in!) If people are dissatisfied with some of the QP offerings (as Randy seems to be), I believe Steve's comment about "pleading for practitioners" is part of the issue. I know my previous employers wouldn't allow me to submit papers. The other thing to consider is that articles published have to appeal to a wide range. For those of us who have been around for centuries, some of the articles may seem like re-tread but there are always new quality professonials who consider some of this stuff "revelation". (Heck, I see quite a bit of that on the cove, too and yet most of the members seem to be quite helpful).

Again, I say, I am not disagreeing with the fact that there are problems with ASQ. I also agree that its' inevitable that organizations/governments as they get bigger, get more remote....unfortunately, that's life. I do regret (but have no control over) the fact that some folks on this board have misinterpreted my concern for comments made to this guy, as irritating my apparent sensitivities and being soft and sweet, etc. :o (Thanks for the compliment! I think if there were more of us in the world it would be a better place....but that's another thread) :lol: All I'm saying, is don't shoot messenger!!!!

All I'm saying, is don't shoot messenger!!!!
Sometimes that's the funnest part :naughty:

Let me ask if I may, what is your sense (or feeling) as to how ASQ receives these comments? What kind of vibes, :mad: or looks, :lmao: do you receive when conveying our comments to the ASQ?
Would you rate the reception as Positive? Or on a scale of 0 to 5, with 5 being extremely well received and 0 being not received at all, what would the rating be?
Just curious! I sense that you seem to want to reach out and perform well which is something i never sensed at the ASQ forums! :thanx:

There are two things to take into account with vibes:

1. The type of feedback - org wide, specific issue
2. The assigned content owner and the severity of the issue/feedback

For the most part issues are met and resolved with a quick response or action, therefore no bad vibes. But when an issue or issues attacks the organization from an operational standpoint, or from the standpoint of decisions that are made and are out of our control, that guide us in our everyday jobs, those issues/feedback are met with a lot of bad vibes, because they question things that are out of our control as ASQ employees. It is difficult then to get a proper answer/response to the initiator of the feedback or issue, and a lot of times the answers are ineffective.

For instance, "Why are the ASQ boards not open to everybody?"
Answer: A decision from the Board of Directors was handed down through the organization to create a benefit structure that offers multiple price point membership schemes to attract members/customers/interested individuals to ASQ. In order to make this work, a forum membership was created, thus needing a unique discussion board held separately from the other boards but open to members who chose them with their regular membership or add on the forums in addition to their membership.

This answer is unacceptable to many people, but it is what it is, and as an ASQ employee we can only take feedback, and send it through the proper channels to hopefully bring about change. We can’t give you what you want. When this happens, the issue becomes a stomping ground for brooders, and that is when frustration sets in from a member standpoint, and an employee standpoint.

For the most part we are effective, but those issues that come up with no resolve or no response in a timely fashion usually indicates when you’ve hit something that is an operational decision, and the issue you bring up is bigger than those of us monitoring the boards can answer.

For the most part we are effective, but those issues that come up with no resolve or no response in a timely fashion usually indicates when you’ve hit something that is an operational decision, and the issue you bring up is bigger than those of us monitoring the boards can answer.

A point I would like to [re]make is that this problem was identified by the "partnership study". The "partnership study" performed by ASQ (in response to the six sigma academy bruha) said that ASQ leadership was not anticipating the effects of decisions on individual members, and worse, had no reactive capability. The partnership study called for ASQ to form a "Tylenol Response" capability. To date, that still has not been done. On the big issues (six sigma, AQP/ASQ merger, ACSI, discussion boards, Living Strategy) it is impossible to get a response back from the entity "ASQ" except for the rote answer that justified the initial decision. I am well reminded of the "Cowboy Quality" QP cover. Come heck or high water (or member discontent), this is our policy. Until enough members rebelled against SSA.

So, you are welcome to pass that back on as a potential root cause of the joint frustrations that arise. This is provided not to further frustration, but to say that the cause of frustration was identified two years ago, and still exists, and I believe it can be reduced with openness and proactive actions.

There are two things to take into account with vibes:

1. The type of feedback - org wide, specific issue
2. The assigned content owner and the severity of the issue/feedback

For the most part issues are met and resolved with a quick response or action, therefore no bad vibes. But when an issue or issues attacks the organization from an operational standpoint, or from the standpoint of decisions that are made and are out of our control, that guide us in our everyday jobs, those issues/feedback are met with a lot of bad vibes, because they question things that are out of our control as ASQ employees. It is difficult then to get a proper answer/response to the initiator of the feedback or issue, and a lot of times the answers are ineffective.

For instance, "Why are the ASQ boards not open to everybody?"
Answer: A decision from the Board of Directors was handed down through the organization to create a benefit structure that offers multiple price point membership schemes to attract members/customers/interested individuals to ASQ. In order to make this work, a forum membership was created, thus needing a unique discussion board held separately from the other boards but open to members who chose them with their regular membership or add on the forums in addition to their membership.

This answer is unacceptable to many people, but it is what it is, and as an ASQ employee we can only take feedback, and send it through the proper channels to hopefully bring about change. We can’t give you what you want. When this happens, the issue becomes a stomping ground for brooders, and that is when frustration sets in from a member standpoint, and an employee standpoint.

For the most part we are effective, but those issues that come up with no resolve or no response in a timely fashion usually indicates when you’ve hit something that is an operational decision, and the issue you bring up is bigger than those of us monitoring the boards can answer.


Thanks for an honest answer! It does appear that Steve's plea to implement the partnership study is a valid plea. What response has the ASQ given when you conveyed this concern?

Thanks for an honest answer! It does appear that Steve's plea to implement the partnership study is a valid plea. What response has the ASQ given when you conveyed this concern?Sometimes, old dogs know tricks nobody bothers to teach young dogs any more.

From a problem-solving viewpoint, it appears that the process of filtering comments through a string of employees concerned about their jobs isn't working because there is no reverse feedback from the "Board."

I don't want to humiliate or embarrass paid staff nor endanger their jobs. I am a Demingite and I KNOW the problem rests with management, NOT with low-level staff.

In another thread, Scott Dalgleish opines he has the ear of the Board at ASQ, but it seems obvious that entreaties by Bill Pflanz and Steve Prevette directly to Ken Case have not been taken seriously.

ASQ Management (paid and elected) seem to be taking the tack organizations take when they are unwilling to face reality - they hunker down, stonewall, and refuse to answer questions from customers, creditors, and their own employees. It almost seems as if the money-making Powerhouse that is the current ASQ merely maintains the membership and their associated "shield" of not-for-profit status to give ASQ a competitive edge against tax-paying publishers.

Also in another thread (the same one cited above for Dagleish), Marc asks whether the financial statement is available http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=83378&postcount=131
Most nonprofits PROUDLY publish their financial statements as soon as they are available. The ones who do not and put up stumbling blocks for folks to see those statements are also the ones who spend 98 cents of every dollar of gross income in fund raising payments to individuals and favored "for profit" organizations.

There is a new "initiative" with a funded call center and "unique" website created by ASQ to gather new members while the current members seem to be ignored at the existing website set up to provide "a benefit structure that offers multiple price point membership schemes." Do you wonder how the for profit people who manage and staff that website and call center were chosen? Was there open bidding or was someone merely "selected" despite the fact less expensive or better alternates may have been available?

All these questions prompt me to ask whether the current members might be receptive to a REFORM CANDIDATE for Chairman AND COMPLETE NEW SLATE OF OFFICERS at the next election of officers? The first order of business for the new Board would be to conduct a complete audit of all relationships of outside vendors to the ASQ and to publish the results for all to see. Top paid staff would be invited to justify choices "rubber-stamped" by previous Boards. Even a prestigious charitable not-for-profit such as United Way had to clean house when paid managers usurped the role of puppet Board Members who accepted lavish reimbursement for "expenses" to attend Board meetings in return for favorable votes on compensation schemes.

Note that I am NOT CURRENTLY ACCUSING anyone of malfeasance or misfeasance of office, only asking questions that don't seem to be answered in a forthright manner expected from an organization that espouses third party audits. I am suggesting such refusal is often symptomatic of deeper problems. A lot of sunshine seems to be needed on the entire ASQ operation.

I'm an ASQ member. I pay my dues and trumpet the cause of Quality everywhere I go. I don't expect to be ignored when I ask a question of folks whom my dues support. Yet, I am ignored.

In other words, is there sufficient interest among the members for a "Throw the rascals out!" campaign?

If you nominate me to run the place I'll reinstate my membership....I don't owe nobody nothin' :D

I'll guarantee a different point a view and attitude towards the general membership. The folks who work for the ASQ will either perform or figure out the color of their parachute :whip:

If you nominate me to run the place I'll reinstate my membership....I don't owe nobody nothin' http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/biggrin-a1.gif

I'll guarantee a different point a view and attitude towards the general membership. The folks who work for the ASQ will either perform or figure out the color of their parachute http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/whip.gifActually, I think the majority of ASQ paid employees are probably excellent. If anything, they are victims of a bad system, similar to the Red Beads.

Top management sets the culture of an organization. I never used fear in any organization I ran. I did a lot of "management by walking around." If I asked an employee to explain a process to me and he/she was unable to do so, I took the blame and took steps to help the employee learn. The only thing I had an ironclad rule against was hiding information (good or bad.) I never killed a messenger, but I grew awfully upset with liars who claimed to have a situation under control and didn't. Worst offenders in my book were those who claimed authority, but denied responsibility by trying to foist it off on others. In my book, you can delegate authority, but not responsibility. Even the FDA is now following that principle by holding top executives liable for failure to follow regulations. SEC and Sorbannes-Oxley similarly hold top management responsible for lapses at lower levels.

Actually, I think the majority of ASQ paid employees are probably excellent.
No doubt in my mind at the middle 'management' and lower levels... Even still, if the ineffective highest management personnel are unpaid, why the delay in implementing change and what connections (profitability wise) do they have whereby they profit outside the ASQ?
Even the FDA is now following that principle by holding top executives liable for failure to follow regulations. SEC and Sorbannes-Oxley similarly hold top management responsible for lapses at lower levels.
In theory, anyway... :rolleyes:

If you nominate me to run the place I'll reinstate my membership....I don't owe nobody nothin' :D

I'll guarantee a different point a view and attitude towards the general membership. The folks who work for the ASQ will either perform or figure out the color of their parachute...
Me too... :mg: Vote for me! :tg:

Well, here's how to do it (from http://www.asq.org/members/leadership/elections/nomination.html):
Board of Directors Nominations
Three separate elections for ASQ Board of Directors members occur on an annual basis. The Nominating Committee is currently accepting applications for the selection of President-Elect, Vice President, Treasurer and two National Directors for 2004-05. Letter from the Nom Com Chair. (PDF: 96 KB, 1 page)

In order to be considered as a Board candidate, nominees must meet the following requirements:

Be an ASQ member in good standing for at least six years
Have a member ranking of Senior, Fellow or Honorary
Complete a signed Conflict of Interest declaration
In addition, nominees interested in any of these Board positions are expected to attend the three regularly scheduled Board of Directors meetings, which occur annually in November, February, and May.

ASQ does have a Board reimbursement policy (PDF: 106 KB, 4 pages) for regularly scheduled Board meetings but welcomes and encourages the member or company's financial support for travel.

The Committee requires all nominees to complete and forward an application (PDF: 96 KB, 4 pages or Word: 54 KB, 4 pages) along with a short biography, photograph and a signed Conflict of Interest declaration (PDF: 147 KB, 6 pages or Word: 54 KB, 7 pages) to ASQ HQ no later than Friday, October 17, 2003. Each submitted application will be acknowledged and then a verbal interview (PDF: 77 KB, 3 pages) will be scheduled. The Committee would also like to share the Board position descriptions (PDF: 80 KB, 7 pages) and the Board KSAs (PDF: 86 KB, 1 page).

Also, on an annual basis, Sections elect seven or eight Regional Directors and Divisions select eight National Directors for two-year terms.

For more information on the nomination processes, download:

Policy G-20, Nominating Process Policy (PDF: 17k, 2 pgs)

D-3, Election of National Directors Representing Divisions (PDF: 27k, 2 pgs)

Policy S-8, Election of Regional Directors (PDF:16k, 2 pgs)

Thus blocking out 99.999% of the membership. :bonk: The DUH factor strikes again :lmao:

For the most part issues are met and resolved with a quick response or action, therefore no bad vibes.
...
For the most part we are effective, but those issues that come up with no resolve or no response in a timely fashion usually indicates when you’ve hit something that is an operational decision, and the issue you bring up is bigger than those of us monitoring the boards can answer.

Sorry, I wish I could agree but my experience suggests otherwise. Attached is a thread from the old boards I made requesting a correction to have the company name properly displayed in the profile. To date this one has not been corrected. There were several other threads on the older boards requesting functional enhancements that I don't feel fell into the category of operational decisions.

I would like to state, however, the new ASQ discussion boards appear to be much better in terms of speed and functionality. My needs are currently being met here, however, and so I haven't yet been able to discern any additional value for the cost of the benefit from ASQ.

You have to understand also that even if there is no way to fix the problem, an occasional (weekly) posting stating "we're still discussing this change with management," or "still on schedule to release this change by ----" is preferable to nothing. This is what I believe Edwin was at least able to provide us.

And while I disagree with the decision to make the boards available to members only, I can respect it. I still feel members and ASQ would benefit from additional forum boards there were free and accessible from the main ASQ web page. Perhaps ASQ could strike a deal and just link to these forums from their website?


All these questions prompt me to ask whether the current members might be receptive to a REFORM CANDIDATE for Chairman AND COMPLETE NEW SLATE OF OFFICERS at the next election of officers? The first order of business for the new Board would be to conduct a complete audit of all relationships of outside vendors to the ASQ and to publish the results for all to see. Top paid staff would be invited to justify choices "rubber-stamped" by previous Boards. Even a prestigious charitable not-for-profit such as United Way had to clean house when paid managers usurped the role of puppet Board Members who accepted lavish reimbursement for "expenses" to attend Board meetings in return for favorable votes on compensation schemes.


:agree1: Wes, you are right on the money!

Andy

Thus blocking out 99.999% of the membership. :bonk: The DUH factor strikes again :lmao:Not necessarily.

I haven't gone through all the necessary documents, but most associations want to assure themselves their elected officials are real stakeholders - hence the requirement for senior members or fellows. I balk at "honorary" members, though. I don't remember the criteria for "honorary" status, but it seems to me if a person runs for office in an organization, his commitment ought to extend to paying dues or being rebated dues in recognition of retired status after a minimum number of years of paid membership.

Similarly, many associations put in a requirement that the top officer must spend at least one year as a lower ranking Board member before being allowed to ascend to the top spot. However, even then, by-laws may be changed by 2/3 vote of a quorum at an annual or special meeting of the association. Sometimes, there are notice requirements before such motions may be put before the deliberative body, but a determined cabal of members could engineer a "palace coup."

There are also ALWAYS processes for recalling or impeaching ineffective officials.

By no means will anyone accomplish a major change on the spur of a moment, but a major change CAN be accomplished!

I haven't gone through all the necessary documents, but most associations want to assure themselves their elected officials are real stakeholders - hence the requirement for senior members or fellows.
Kevin Mader successfully pushed through a recommendation to make me a Senior Member because of these forums several years back. Now what??? :confused: Am I now a 'stakeholder'?

Also see: http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6876

Sorry, I wish I could agree but my experience suggests otherwise. Attached is a thread from the old boards I made requesting a correction to have the company name properly displayed in the profile. To date this one has not been corrected. There were several other threads on the older boards requesting functional enhancements that I don't feel fell into the category of operational decisions...
Andy,

I just contacted IT to update your information. The problem resided in the communication from our membership database to our ORACLE database. The issue will be resolved, and I will update this post when it is complete. If Edwin knew this, or communicated it with me a year ago, I could have resolved it then. I apologize for the internal loss of communication.

ASQ Employee

Kevin Mader successfully pushed through a recommendation to make me a Senior Member because of these forums several years back. Now what??? http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/confused.gif Am I now a 'stakeholder'?Why not? You still pay dues. You have a minimum of ten years experience in a Quality function.
Senior membership status may be awarded to those individuals who have been ASQ members in good standing and meet the following criteria:

Have been an individual member for one year
Have 10 years of professional experience
Meet one of four professional criteria
Application for Advancement to the Grade of Senior (http://www.asq.org/members/leadership/mbrapp/senior.pdf)

Fellow membership status may be awarded to those individuals who have been ASQ members in good standing and meet the following criteria:

Have 15 years of quality-related experience
Meet minimum score requirement across six professional categories
Are sponsored by peers and endorsed by their ASQ Section and/or ASQ Division
Have been a Senior member for five years or longer
Nominate a Fellow Member (http://www.asq.org/members/account/fellow.html)

Here's the scoop on Honorary:
(I still can't reconcile why someone who may have NEVER been a dues paying member may be qualified to run for office over a dues paying member who has not achieved Senior status by virtue of age. Seems like reverse age discrimination to me - remember, I'm old! However - I doubt ANY of these guys would bother running for office.)

Honorary Members of ASQ

Honorary member is the American Society for Quality's highest grade of membership. Only 20 people have attained this status in ASQ's existence.

As specified in ASQ's constitution, "an Honorary member shall have rendered acknowledged eminent service to the quality profession or the allied arts and sciences." Honorary member status is reserved for those who are so well-known and clearly preeminent in the profession that there should be almost no doubt of their being worthy. In order to attain the highest grade of membership, an individual must be nominated by at least 10 regular members and approved unanimously by the board of directors.

Walter A. Shewhart (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/shewhart.html), known as the father of statistical quality control, was the first to be named an Honorary member; this occurred in 1947, a year after ASQ was founded. Two years later, George D. Edwards (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/edwards.html), the first president of ASQ, became the second Honorary member.

The next, Martin A. Brumbaugh (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/brumbaug.html), founder and first editor of Industrial Quality Control magazine, was named in 1960. A trio of new Honorary members was named in 1965: Simon Collier (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/collier.html), a past president, Harold F. Dodge (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/dodge.html), known for his working in sampling, and Mason E. Wescott (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/wescott.html), mentor to a generation of applied statisticians.

Eugene L. Grant (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/grant.html), a great teacher of quality control, and Joseph M. Juran (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/juran.html), who made quality management his life subject, joined the list in 1968. W. Edwards Deming (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/deming.html), who fostered quality improvement on two continents, was added in 1970.

Ellis R. Ott (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/ott.html), educator of a generation of quality control professionals, became an Honorary member in 1978. He was followed in 1982 by Harry G. Romig (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/romig.html), an educator who was closely associated with Harold Dodge. Armand V. Feigenbaum (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/feigen.html), whose name became synonymous with the term "total quality control," and Kaoru Ishikawa (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/ishikawa.html), who helped develop a specifically Japanese quality strategy, became Honorary members in 1986.

William A. Golomski (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/golomski.html), a past president and distinguished educator, was honored in 1992. In 1996, Dorian Shainin (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/shainin.html) was honored for a lifetime of achievement. Also added to the roll in 1996 was statistician George E.P. Box (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/box.html). Genichi Taguchi (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/taguchi.html) (1997) was known for developing a methodology to improve quality and reduce costs.

Author and educator J. Stuart Hunter (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/hunter.html) became an Honorary member in 1998. Philip B. Crosby (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/crosby.html) achieved Honorary membership in 2001. He is legendary for promoting the concept of "zero defects," and for defining quality as conformance to requirements. The most recent addition is Dr. Lloyd S. Nelson (http://www.asq.org/join/about/history/nelson.html)(2003), the founding editor of the Journal of Quality Technology and long-time author of the journal's "Technical Aids" feature.

Boy, this has been a pretty wild ride.

Allow me to publicly state the offer I have made to ASQ to moderate the "Ask a Quality Professional" board, which is a board which is open to non-members. I have asked that we set up a method to track questions and to find out whether or not the asker is satisfied with the answer they get. This would also imply some way to forward appropriate items on to the Board of Directors if necessary.

I am willing to at least keep a little status file (gee, just like Corrective Action Management!) as to the date the question was asked, if an answer was provided, and whether or not the asker was "satisified". I would hope that could be posted on the ASQ site someplace, or perhaps just a subsection of the board where a weekly activity (or inactivity as the case may be) report could be publicly posted. I want to be sure I am not the one "left holding the bag" for ASQ leadership, but I am willing to actively participate and try to improve the situation.

Boy, this has been a pretty wild ride.
Public notice: You are at the Elsmar Cove forums. The 'Other' quality site...
Allow me to publicly state the offer I have made to ASQ to moderate the "Ask a Quality Professional" board, which is a board which is open to non-members. I have asked that we set up a method to track questions and to find out whether or not the asker is satisfied with the answer they get. This would also imply some way to forward appropriate items on to the Board of Directors if necessary.
WoW! I guess we better get you onboard as a moderator here!
I am willing to at least keep a little status file (gee, just like Corrective Action Management!) as to the date the question was asked, if an answer was provided, and whether or not the asker was "satisified". I would hope that could be posted on the ASQ site someplace, or perhaps just a subsection of the board where a weekly activity (or inactivity as the case may be) report could be publicly posted. I want to be sure I am not the one "left holding the bag" for ASQ leadership, but I am willing to actively participate and try to improve the situation.
So - What forum or forums do you want to moderate here??? Hmmmm???

Boy, this has been a pretty wild ride.

Allow me to publicly state the offer I have made to ASQ to moderate the "Ask a Quality Professional" board, which is a board which is open to non-members. I have asked that we set up a method to track questions and to find out whether or not the asker is satisfied with the answer they get. This would also imply some way to forward appropriate items on to the Board of Directors if necessary.

I am willing to at least keep a little status file (gee, just like Corrective Action Management!) as to the date the question was asked, if an answer was provided, and whether or not the asker was "satisified". I would hope that could be posted on the ASQ site someplace, or perhaps just a subsection of the board where a weekly activity (or inactivity as the case may be) report could be publicly posted. I want to be sure I am not the one "left holding the bag" for ASQ leadership, but I am willing to actively participate and try to improve the situation.

I have forwarded this on to the person in charge of the ASQ discussion boards because I think it is a great idea. Something our Web offerings group and customer care can keep track of in regards to another avenue to solve member/customer problems and issues with ASQ.

ASQ Employee

Andy,

I just contacted IT to update your information. The problem resided in the communication from our membership database to our ORACLE database. The issue will be resolved, and I will update this post when it is complete. If Edwin knew this, or communicated it with me a year ago, I could have resolved it then. I apologize for the internal loss of communication.

ASQ Employee

There is a bug in the system that will require further investigation. I hope to have an adequate answer to you tomorrow in regards to your situation Andy, and I promise I will resolve the issue.

Public notice: You are at the Elsmar Cove forums. The 'Other' quality site...

WoW! I guess we better get you onboard as a moderator here!

So - What forum or forums do you want to moderate here??? Hmmmm???
Always willing to further the cause of Dr. Deming's work (though that is a little quiet here). On the quality tools side, my formal training is in Ops Research, so all things statistical I am always willing to comment on. I know there was a fellow asking for a "quality tools" board here, and I could likely give good support to that.

Andy,

I just contacted IT to update your information. The problem resided in the communication from our membership database to our ORACLE database. The issue will be resolved, and I will update this post when it is complete. If Edwin knew this, or communicated it with me a year ago, I could have resolved it then. I apologize for the internal loss of communication.

ASQ EmployeeEdwin Thaves (the ASQ employee we speak of) was terminated and some of his messages summarily deleted from the Discussion Boards. That hardly sounds like there was any kind of collegial atmosphere at the time. The only one who stepped forward to take any sort of personal responsibility was Edwin Thaves. He paid for that initiative with his job (even if it was not the sole reason he was terminated.) The remainder of ASQ paid staff were conspicuous by their absence. I remember Andy's travails vividly.

Here's one of my own:
17066 Nibbled to death by ducks
Wesley Bucey
Sep-30-03
The ASQ staffers may have succeeded in driving away potential Forum contributers by simply ignoring any suggestions to make the Forum more attractive and usable for the average ASQ member.

The infrequent contributions will be interpreted by the ASQ staffers as confirmation that "no one cares about these Forums - look, no one uses them."

Most of those contributors who cared and served as Mentors to ASQ members asking questions about various aspects of Quality have lost heart and patience because their suggestions for improving the Forums have fallen on deaf ears. Those with questions who are new to ASQ are not given an easy road to find the Forums. When they do find the Forum and ask a question, long periods of time go by before they get an answer.

The lack of a link on every page to return the user to the master list of Forums or even the most recent Forum after reading an individual post is really tiring. The design is really amateurish.

Some of you may think I live for nothing more than bashing the ASQ staff, but believe me, I would rather have nothing to bash. The feeling for me is akin to the feeling many of us have had when employed by a company going through a death spiral:
"At first, we try to work harder in the hope our effort will make a difference.
Eventually, we see the futility in that path. Our inability to make the people with the power to change the course of events see the ramifications of their present path frustrates us more and more. Finally, we do one of two things -

(1) silently slink away to a new position with a different organization,
or, [worst of all]
(2) just sit and wait for the inevitable collapse, by which time we are so disheartened, we don't even have the energy to say, "I told you so!"

Anybody out there still have energy left for the "good fight"?
-Wes Bucey

Edwin Thaves (the ASQ employee we speak of) was terminated and some of his messages summarily deleted from the Discussion Boards. That hardly sounds like there was any kind of collegial atmosphere at the time. The only one who stepped forward to take any sort of personal responsibility was Edwin Thaves. He paid for that initiative with his job (even if it was not the sole reason he was terminated.) The remainder of ASQ paid staff were conspicuous by their absence. I remember Andy's travails vividly.

Here's one of my own:

Are there any action items that are residual from the old boards to the new that still plague your experience? Besides the obvious, time frame of which your questions are left unanswered?

Are there any action items that are residual from the old boards to the new that still plague your experience? Besides the obvious, time frame of which your questions are left unanswered?
Boy, that just opened the can of worms.

Here is my own current short list:

1. The statistical validity (and hence why do we at ASQ support it) of the American Customer Satisfaction Index. The only "technical answer" I got back to my enquiries (including a QP letter to the editor that was published) was "I teach PhD students, buy my book".

2. Responses to the various one-sided discussions on the "Living Strategy" "Dialogue". A nice job was done of tallying up input received at the formal sessions held in the big cities, but there were no opportunities for many of us to participate. A lot of unanswered questions remain, including mine at that site.

3. What are the intentions on the recommendations from the "Partnership Study"? Are they dead? Was the study of the ASQ board ever completed?

4. How can we hold a poll, get feedback together, and submit the results to the right decision maker(s) on the issue of accessiblity of the ASQ discussion boards? On the subject of polls, I haven't seen a popup poll on the ASQ site in a long time, and they NEVER came up in the discussion boards.

5. When are Board of Directors minutes for more recently than Feb 2003 going to be published?

This list is actually minus a few items that I consider to be resolved (or not worth beating on any longer).

Thanks.

Boy, that just opened the can of worms.

4. How can we hold a poll, get feedback together, and submit the results to the right decision maker(s) on the issue of accessiblity of the ASQ discussion boards? On the subject of polls, I haven't seen a popup poll on the ASQ site in a long time, and they NEVER came up in the discussion boards.



Honestly now, don't laugh, this is the only one I can answer, because I was talking about the boards, not the organization, I'm not equipped in any fashion to answer those questions. I believe only our directors are, possibly their assistants.

But to answer your question, we are looking into the polling option that we use to have on My ASQ - ASQNet, we are looking for a choice that is better than using the open source poll we used before so that we can adequately track statistics to post on our site and make available to our members and customers. I have not been a part of this initiative, but I know that it exists.

The accessibility issue is pretty much a done deal, and we are where we are at, but we are collecting feedback like that of which is posted here and at ASQ to report to the directors and to the board.

I will forward your other questions on to our Customer Care department so that they can reach the appropriate parties that can answer your questions.

"Senior membership status may be awarded to those individuals who have been ASQ members in good standing and meet the following criteria:
Have been an individual member for one year
Have 10 years of professional experience
Meet one of four professional criteria"

What are the professional criteria?

Honestly now, don't laugh, this is the only one I can answer, because I was talking about the boards, not the organization, I'm not equipped in any fashion to answer those questions. I believe only our directors are, possibly their assistants.

But to answer your question, we are looking into the polling option that we use to have on My ASQ - ASQNet, we are looking for a choice that is better than using the open source poll we used before so that we can adequately track statistics to post on our site and make available to our members and customers. I have not been a part of this initiative, but I know that it exists.

The accessibility issue is pretty much a done deal, and we are where we are at, but we are collecting feedback like that of which is posted here and at ASQ to report to the directors and to the board.

I will forward your other questions on to our Customer Care department so that they can reach the appropriate parties that can answer your questions.
No, I did not / do not expect Customer Care to have the answers to these questions, but they have been brought up in ASQ Discussion Board postings.

I suppose this is the key question, which you and I and others at ASQ are mulling over - how to get issues from the membership to the board? Even on another board here at the Cove I see folks with an issue completely unrelated to ASQ mulling over customer service, customer complaints, and "problem customers".

I see the Ask a Quality Pro board as one method for improvement, and in keeping a tally of questions at least we can say - these are unanswered questions from the ASQ membership. Some questions may be answerable by fellow ASQ members, some by ASQ staff, but others will require ASQ "Leadership".

What ASQ "Leadership" (whether that is the board, or who) chooses to do with the questions would be beyond my control (and your control), but at least we can pose the question and track the answer.

What are the professional criteria?
Kevin Mader looked all that up for me. I'll still remember at the time thinking he was wanting me to nominate him or something. Kevin is one heck of a smart, involved fella whom I have always appreciated - Just as I did (and do!) Don Winton.

As minor as this may be to many, I appreciated the recognition of Kevin's efforts in getting me recognized as a Senior Member of the ASQ because of these forums several years ago. It doesn't buy me anything other than personal satisfaction, but I appreciate, and to some degree, honour it.

But to answer your question, we are looking into the polling option that we use to have on My ASQ - ASQNet, we are looking for a choice that is better than using the open source poll we used before so that we can adequately track statistics to post on our site and make available to our members and customers. I have not been a part of this initiative, but I know that it exists.

One piece of interesting history on polls is that a former adminstrator of ASQNET used the poll results to justify every action taken. The interesting thing was, the poll NEVER came up while you were in the Discussion Boards, so he NEVER had any negative information or member frustration data on the Discussion Boards! :biglaugh:

With no disrespect intended towards my friends in here that are current ASQ'ers and those of who I don't know that are also what we have (well not me anymore as of June 30) is another type of "Ringknocker's" or "Good ol' Boy's) type of mentality. The same thing exists in other organizations as well like ASSE, AIHA and the likes.

The day to day, hard working person cannot compete with the heavies when it comes to input and decision making. What we wind up with are organization's being directed by folks who for the most part are no longer personally involved in the drudgery of the career field and can take off for neat places and spend time with the Bro's. There of course are exceptions.

I recently attended the annual ASSE conference in 'Vegas, and even though I never have been and quite possibly never will attend ASQ equivalent, I'm sure there is no difference other than the baseball hat insignia. I felt out of place and so did many of the other folks I came into contact with.

Quite a few of us tried to speak with some of the leadership about issues or thoughts and such only to be either ignored or dismissed as irrelevent or as not being on the same plane of existance. Recently calls and emails to the headquarters have gone unanswered (until I got a little nasty in my tone :mad: )


Where am I going with this? I dunno. I lost my train of thought. :frust:

The day to day, hard working person cannot compete with the heavies when it comes to input and decision making. What we wind up with are organization's being directed by folks who for the most part are no longer personally involved in the drudgery of the career field and can take off for neat places and spend time with the Bro's. There of course are exceptions.

What I see at ASQ are there are three kinds of people:
- Academics - publish or perish, goal: get research $
- Consultants - (sorry Marc) - goal: get consulting $
- Practitioners - those of us in the trenches. - goal - survive?

Now, I myself exist to some extent in all three areas. Many practitioners are prevented from publishing by their employers.

Honestly now, don't laugh, this is the only one I can answer, because I was talking about the boards, not the organization, I'm not equipped in any fashion to answer those questions. I believe only our directors are, possibly their assistants.

But to answer your question, we are looking into the polling option that we use to have on My ASQ - ASQNet, we are looking for a choice that is better than using the open source poll we used before so that we can adequately track statistics to post on our site and make available to our members and customers. I have not been a part of this initiative, but I know that it exists.

The accessibility issue is pretty much a done deal, and we are where we are at, but we are collecting feedback like that of which is posted here and at ASQ to report to the directors and to the board.

I will forward your other questions on to our Customer Care department so that they can reach the appropriate parties that can answer your questions.In modern Quality, no issue is a "done deal." I refuse to accept that some minority can ignore a groundswell of opinion and make decisions against the best interests of the majority.

Simple arithmetic in checking declining membership is a strong indicator the current processes are NOT in the best interests of the majority of members. I wonder what an intensive "exit interview" would disclose?

The only constant in this world is CHANGE. Let's think about being agents of change , not protectors and defenders of "status quo." Whatever happened to the concept of "continual improvement?" How does "The accessibility issue is pretty much a done deal, and we are where we are at," square with continual improvement?

Is there anyone who thought The accessibility issue is pretty much a done deal, and we are where we are at, was an adequate response for anyone connected with the concepts espoused by ISO9001:2000?-Wes Bucey

... The day to day, hard working person cannot compete with the heavies when it comes to input and decision making. What we wind up with are organization's being directed by folks who for the most part are no longer personally involved in the drudgery of the career field and can take off for neat places and spend time with the Bro's. There of course are exceptions.

I recently attended the annual ASSE conference in 'Vegas, and even though I never have been and quite possibly never will attend ASQ equivalent, I'm sure there is no difference other than the baseball hat insignia. I felt out of place and so did many of the other folks I came into contact with.

Quite a few of us tried to speak with some of the leadership about issues or thoughts and such only to be either ignored or dismissed as irrelevent or as not being on the same plane of existance. Recently calls and emails to the headquarters have gone unanswered ...
I hear you, and I'm sure others do as well. I get the impression that the rest of the Society is gradually drifting away and becoming less relevant. There's more marketing and warm-fuzzies and less discussion of and use of the tools. Things seem to be becoming fragmented and unfocused.

Instead of getting in bed with the overpriced commercial six sigma marketing hype gang, the Society should have been proclaiming that it's nothing new, that everything that makes six sima work dates from the 1920's to 1960's, and much of it was invented by the pioneers who were founding members of ASQC. And by the way, ASQ-CQE = SSBB.
Data is scarce - and not just the statistical validity information that Steve mentioned. A week or two ago I was trying to look up a position description for a Division committee chair position I was being asked to take. I did not anticipate a problem becasue when I was in earlier leadership positions (chair of Section 1122, and then of the national SMP committee) there were thick binders of every required position at the Section and Division level. This time, the most I could find was a couple of sentences in the model Division bylaws. (I am ashamed to say that the bylaws of the division I was looking in were several years out of date.)
The ASQ web site in general may be "friendlier" for the curious public - and we want to welcome them - but it is more difficult (to me, at least) for the current member to find what they are looking for.

Most of the page URL's are extravagantly long gibberish - I suppose they mean something to the web server, but they are next to useless for mere humans. This is a particular problem if I am trying to send a reference to someone else -- or to list it in a footnote or bibliography! If the URL won't fit in a single line of print in a typical Quality Press book, then it's too flaming long!
Very often the stuff I want to see is in fine print around the side, while the centre is filled with stuff of limited value to me.
After I log in, "the system knows" who I am. Why, then does it not know that I have already renewed, I am already certified (three times), and other nonsense that take up space and bandwidth? I don't mind a renewal reminder in April, or a recertificaton reminder every third May - but I resent seeing them every time I log on.
Speaking of logging in, does ASQ have something against cookies? Why do I have to log in every time when the technology exists to "remember" me? ASQ members have been doing it for years on their own web sites, so why not the Society?

The Quality Information Center is a great resource - at least until I find something I need and discover that while most of the things I want are free for ASQ members, some of them are free only for members of another society - even if they're in an ASQ publication.
The ASQ conventions (AQC) are becoming less well attended and less relevant. For me, a lot of the reason is expense, especially the hotels. Sorry but I can't afford the typical "$$$pecial rate" hotels. It's cheaper for me to use <an online travel engine> to find one a half-mile away but is 1/3 the price, and walk to everything. As for content, for me the main attraction of next year's event (the warm-fuzzies have changed the name so I don't know what it is any more) is that it is (a) in Seattle (a city I want to see when it is not raining) and (b) near the brand new Sci-Fi museum under the Space Needle. The only reasons I went to Toronto this year were (a) events relevant to publication of The Metrology Handbook, and (b) I used to live there long, long ago.
But it's late and my wife is calling, so that's enough venting for tonight. :mad:

Golly!
I (Wes Bucey) may be an old crotchety guy, but this is Graeme, a guy who volunteers for ASQ on an International level. He is a respected professional in his field by any yardstick you care to apply.

I sense a deep well of dissatisfaction among the members, here in the Cove, in the ASQ Discussion Forums, and in my Sections. We are not talking about folks whose organizations pay the ASQ dues and these folks never have anything to do with ASQ besides bringing the ASQ renewal papers to the Controller at the organization. We're talking about living, breathing, active ASQ members. If these guys feel ignored and dissatisfied, that's data, hard data!

There is a disconnect in the ASQ model. It needs to be recognized and Corrected!

I laud Marc for his patience in allowing this thread to continue here at Elsmar Cove Forums, as if it is an ancilliary of ASQ.

It seems to me though, that most of the content of this thread should have been posted on the ASQ Discussion Board, where all (using the term "all" loosely) of the staffers and members would see it and interject. We're all preaching to the choir and we're in the wrong church.

IMHO :rolleyes:

I laud Marc for his patience in allowing this thread to continue here at Elsmar Cove Forums, as if it is an ancilliary of ASQ.

It seems to me though, that most of the content of this thread should have been posted on the ASQ Discussion Board, where all (using the term "all" loosely) of the staffers and members would see it and interject. We're all preaching to the choir and we're in the wrong church.

IMHO http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/rolleyes-a1.gifThe issue is, I believe, more ASQ members visit the Cove than visit the ASQ forums. If you want to impact ASQ, you need as wide a PUBLIC audience as possible. I note my ability to read the 6S Forum at ASQ will soon be denied unless I pay more money. It means I will be unable to learn from 6S folk and may never be induced to take up their flag. Clever way to proselytize your philosphy, huh? (By assuring your message will never reach anyone not in your group already.) I have often polled folks at my ASQ meetings about using the Forums (either ASQ or Cove) - sadly, most have no idea either exists. I wonder if any ever visited as a result of my entreaties. Anyone reading this from Sections 1201 or 1212?

When we begin meetings again in September, I'll ask. For certain, to my current knowledge, CarolX is the only member of even one of my Sections who visits and contributes here. Sadly, meeting times and places don't coincide with her schedule, so she rarely attends a Section meeting. I know what that's like. For a number of years, I rarely attended more than two meetings for each Section per year because of work and family conflicts. I did, however, avidly read the Section newsletters as soon as they came.

I disagree, Rob. This is a better place for this location than the closed confines of the ASQ Forum.

There is a bug in the system that will require further investigation. I hope to have an adequate answer to you tomorrow in regards to your situation Andy, and I promise I will resolve the issue.
Thanks for your follow-up, it is appreciated. :thanks:

In regards to other open issues, I believe there is a suggestions thread that was organized prior to the messages that are now stored in the archives link. I don't know if you would be able to access those older postings or not.

I still wonder if ASQ would consider, (and if Marc would be willing), having these Cove forums linked from the ASQ main website and promoted as 'free open forums for Quality disscussions.' And then ASQ could state that specific, member-only discussion boards are also available for dues paying members, (still assuming they would not want to consider making their forums open to the public)?

Andy

I'm on your side, Wes. All I'm saying is that it is just a sad shame.

There is a bug in the system that will require further investigation. I hope to have an adequate answer to you tomorrow in regards to your situation Andy, and I promise I will resolve the issue.

Andy, the company name problem has been resolved, your account should be fixed.

I still wonder if ASQ would consider, (and if Marc would be willing), having these Cove forums linked from the ASQ main website and promoted as 'free open forums for Quality disscussions.' And then ASQ could state that specific, member-only discussion boards are also available for dues paying members, (still assuming they would not want to consider making their forums open to the public)?
There are two links to these forums on the ASQ site now - One very old and a recent one. I have no objection to the ASQ going beyond the existing links, but I don't see that as something the ASQ would be interested in.

No, I did not / do not expect Customer Care to have the answers to these questions, but they have been brought up in ASQ Discussion Board postings.

Customer Care knows the key stakeholders of your questions that you presented. I was just cc'd on your questions as they just went to the appropriate parties. I will post when ASQ has an answer.

1. The statistical validity (and hence why do we at ASQ support it) of the American Customer Satisfaction Index. The only "technical answer" I got back to my enquiries (including a QP letter to the editor that was published) was "I teach PhD students, buy my book".



This question will have answers from two stake holders at ASQ:

I will be glad to provide direction on the first part of Mr. Prevette’s question. By acquiring the ACSI Methodology Report (item T-517), he can review in fairly strong detail the background on the ACSI methodology, including its validity, reliability and precision. It is a very good resource for virtually everything one would want to know about the ACSI methodology.

As for the reasons behind why ASQ supports the ACSI...

More to come.

Steve, I believe you have a reputation in regards to this subject, because you have been dealing with the organization in regards to this subject for years...

"He has been asking the ACSI question for years. He most recently asked the question after Claes’ article appeared in the Feb. 03 QP. He exchanged letters with Debbie, and was put in contact with David and Claes. I believe he was even contacted by Jack West. He’s already received copies of the methodology report, but if you’d like to send it again, please do."

Do you need another copy Steve?

This question will have answers from two stake holders at ASQ:

I will be glad to provide direction on the first part of Mr. Prevette’s question. By acquiring the ACSI Methodology Report (item T-517), he can review in fairly strong detail the background on the ACSI methodology, including its validity, reliability and precision. It is a very good resource for virtually everything one would want to know about the ACSI methodology.

As for the reasons behind why ASQ supports the ACSI...

More to come.I'll be interested in reading Steve's review of "item T-517" if he is able to "acquire it." Why not give a detailed method for anyone to acquire it?

I'll be interested in reading Steve's review of "item T-517" if he is able to "acquire it." Why not give a detailed method for anyone to acquire it?

I've just posed that question and will have a response or a link posted momentarilly.

There are two links to these forums on the ASQ site now - One very old and a recent one. I have no objection to the ASQ going beyond the existing links, but I don't see that as something the ASQ would be interested in.
Really? ASQ.org? I don't see them? :confused:

Really? ASQ.org? I don't see them? :confused:
Heres one of them - the new one.
From the navigation menu on the left side of the main page
Under Tool/Resources, select LINKS
From the list of categories, select Forums (http://www.asq.org/links/forums.html)
Elsmar Cove is currently at the top of the list.

I've just posed that question and will have a response or a link posted momentarilly.

This is when I get frustrated as an ASQ employee....

http://qualitypress.asq.org/perl/catalog.cgi?item=T517

In order to learn about it, you have to purchase it.

More links:

http://www.asq.org/news/news_releases/111901acsi.html

http://www.asq.org/news/news_releases/112000acsistate.html

http://www.theacsi.org/

Perhaps ACSI will have a more appropriate means of gaining the information desired.

In order to learn about it, you have to purchase it.

Perhaps ACSI will have a more appropriate means of gaining the information desired.

Actually, I think I have already been through that report. Here is my original Mailbag letter that was published in Quality Progress:


I have received the report "American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI) Methodology Report" dated August 2001. Assuming that no further information is forthcoming, I would like to amend my letter as follows, and will post it on ASQNET:


I have followed the various press releases on the ACSI with great interest over the past years. There seems to be a continued pattern of reaction to random noise in the data, at least based upon the statements about percentage change in the indicators. In fact, if you stack up the various releases over the years, they contradict each other from year to year and overall appear to do a very poor job of offering a prediction of the future.

I note in the ACSI article by Claes Fornell that the ACSI was to "analyze the data using newly developed software that would sort out the typical random noise one finds in all surveys and establish cause and effect patterns, and update with new data on a regular basis". To me, there does not appear to be any fact or evidence to support that statement.

In response to my request for the statistical basis behind the ACSI declarations of changes, I was provided a report which appeared to indicate that the reporting criteria is to report percentage changes from datum to datum that exceed a 90% confidence level. If this is the case, then any CQE should be able to predict the outcome - one in every 10 of the industries reported will be reported as having a "significant change" of such and such percentage. No long run monitoring of the data (such as through a control chart) appears to be performed. There does seem to be a reluctance on the part of the ACSI personnel to release detailed information, I assume the source of that reluctance is this analysis is being performed for fee.

Considering that
another article in the very same Quality Progress laments that "many managers and engineers still do not understand or apply the concepts of variation reduction or trend analysis", it seems to me that the American Society of Quality ought to be in the forefront in establishing knowledge of variation and trend analysis, and a good place to start would be the ACSI.

http://www.qualitydigest.com/currentmag/departments/first_word.shtml

I appreciate all the feedback from ASQ_Web_Offerings_CN, but am I the only one who finds it ironic that one ASQ staff memeber has pasted 27 times here at the Cove - often replying within an hour or two with useful information - while the two staff members I have seen involved at ASQ (Susan Chapman & Margaret Wehr; perhaps there are others) have posted on their own boards just 20 times? And over half of those were Susan saying "Welcome to the new discussion boards" in different topics.

Tim F

I appreciate all the feedback from ASQ_Web_Offerings_CN, but am I the only one who finds it ironic that one ASQ staff memeber has pasted 27 times here at the Cove - often replying within an hour or two with useful information - while the two staff members I have seen involved at ASQ (Susan Chapman & Margaret Wehr; perhaps there are others) have posted on their own boards just 20 times? And over half of those were Susan saying "Welcome to the new discussion boards" in different topics.

Tim F
Well, I become one of "them" soon. I spoke to Susan Chapman on the phone today, and I will be a "member moderator" of the Ask a Quality Professional Board soon.

Congratulations, Steve.

Given your contributions and involvement both here and at ASQ as an unpaid contributor, I'm sure you will do a great job now that you have been promoted to unpaid moderator.

Tim F

http://www.qualitydigest.com/currentmag/departments/first_word.shtmlHow does this fit in with the discussion on the methodology of the survey vis a vis Steve Prevette's remarks? :confused:

Ironic - the article appears in a non-ASQ publication.

Re: Steve's "elevation" to ASQ "member moderator"
Will you sign your own name or become part of "web offerings"? ;)

I appreciate all the feedback from ASQ_Web_Offerings_CN, but am I the only one who finds it ironic that one ASQ staff memeber has pasted 27 times here at the Cove - often replying within an hour or two with useful information - while the two staff members I have seen involved at ASQ (Susan Chapman & Margaret Wehr; perhaps there are others) have posted on their own boards just 20 times? And over half of those were Susan saying "Welcome to the new discussion boards" in different topics. Tim F

Tim,

I know this thread is now very long but I made the same observation as you two days ago and noted a similiar irony.

It would have been nice if ASQ had responses from this anonymous person for the past year. At least we would have known that someone was actually reading the postings. Isn't it ironic that ASQ is using the Cove to observe "the outside persona of ASQ" when its own members have been willing to give their opinion directly through the ASQ boards. .

By the way, ASQ Web Offerings made it very clear that they were not speaking for ASQ as a staff member but were just trying to be a good employee and helping their organization.

What I feel really bad about is even commenting on ASQ Web Offerings and keeping the thread going. You would think that someone who spent 25 years in the oil and chemical industry would know better than putting more gasoline on the fire. Sorry but I will admit that it does make for an entertaining evening with no one getting hurt - I think.

Bill Pflanz
(the non-anonymous ASQ member)

Kevin Mader looked all that up for me. I'll still remember at the time thinking he was wanting me to nominate him or something. Kevin is one heck of a smart, involved fella whom I have always appreciated - Just as I did (and do!) Don Winton.

As minor as this may be to many, I appreciated the recognition of Kevin's efforts in getting me recognized as a Senior Member of the ASQ because of these forums several years ago. It doesn't buy me anything other than personal satisfaction, but I appreciate, and to some degree, honour it.

The professional qualification needed to be a senior member are from the application form:
Have qualified in one of the following ways described below:
a. Conducting quality-related engineering, inspection or audit, or statistical work, or applying the methods
and principles of quality on the job for at least two (2) years.
b. Teaching quality or related arts or sciences at an accredited institution for at least two (2) years.
c. Being a Senior member or comparable grade in an American Society for Association Executives’ list
of recognized organizations.
d. Currently holding an ASQ certification that requires recertification.

For some reason I am stilla member of ASQ and received a letter asking me to upgrade, this gave me for the same money another benefit, so I filled in the form and was upgraded.


Marc,
What Kevin talked about was a Fellow for which you need to be nominated.
This was a serious and much supported attempt to give you public recognition for your contribution to the Quality world.

Marc,
What Kevin talked about was a Fellow for which you need to be nominated.
This was a serious and much supported attempt to give you public recognition for your contribution to the Quality world.
OK. All I remember was initially I was thinking Kevin wanted to be nominated for something and the next thing you know I filled out some paperwork and ended up a senior member. The thread should be in here somewhere with all that took place. Or maybe most of it was through e-mails.

I remember in the IEST it was a nomination process. I became a senior member of the IEST about 15 years ago. Jerry Schlagheck got me into that back then.

Of course I had to search some, I could not find it all but your certificate is there
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=4204

And some more.

http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=43628&postcount=24

http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=4034

OK - That was it. I remember initially I was confused and thought Kevin was applying or something and wanted help but what you cited was the case. It was a nomination for fellowship.

OK. All I remember was initially I was thinking Kevin wanted to be nominated for something and the next thing you know I filled out some paperwork and ended up a senior member.
Aha -- one of the requirements for someone to be approved as an ASQ Fellow is that they have been a Senior Member for at least 5 years.

Graeme
(non-anonymous ASQ Sr. Member, CQE, CCT, CQT)

Aha -- one of the requirements for someone to be approved as an ASQ Fellow is that they have been a Senior Member for at least 5 years.

Graeme
(non-anonymous ASQ Sr. Member, CQE, CCT, CQT)
The 5 year requirement is one of the easiest to meet. Our ASQ section has helped some people reach fellow status and it involves a lot of documentation in specific areas of contribution in the field of quality over a long period of time. I have seen the requirements and also the documentation that needs to go with it. It is much more of an effort to reach fellow than senior. Even a senior membership is not that common so you can imagine how exclusive fellow is.

Bill Pflanz
ASQ Senior Member

I don't remember all the details. As I said, initially I thought Kevin was wanting to rise in the ASQ. I didn't even give a thought to his meaning me at the time until - well, I guess it was in an e-mail, where he said I didn't get the picture - he wanted to nominate me. I had forms out the butt and remember going through them and going WoW! I just looked through my files and I can't find any of the forms - I probably tossed them.

Yes - As I remember, you had (have) to practically be a deity to be an ASQ Fellow.

All of you can read back through and see Kevin's input over the years. Kevin always impressed me and still does. He has another life now, but much of him is still here. That Kevin wanted to do something for me like that still brings a good feeling. I wish I could do more for Kevin. Back in the early years it was quite different than now. Not a good or bad - Just different.

Just wanted to wish you all well, and to continue to post feedback, questions, and concerns. I'm off on Vacation until August 10 so I will be unable to post.

Time to take my motorcycle across the east coast and down the Appalachian Mountains on a 2500 mile bike trip.

Watch on Monday, a site that I have been developing over the past three weeks will launch to coincide with our Quality Advertising Campaign.

www.makegoodgreat.org

Time to take my motorcycle across the east coast and down the Appalachian Mountains on a 2500 mile bike trip.
What? No daily weblog where we can go to get pictures and your daily diary of your adventure? No details? Bike? Route? :(

What? No daily weblog where we can go to get pictures and your daily diary of your adventure? No details? Bike? Route? :(

I can update you with info when I return. As a web producer, this is my opportunity to leave technology, except the cell phone - wife wants me to stay in a little contact while on the road, behind.

The route is Cleveland, OH, Pittsburg, PA, Washington D.C., Fontana Village, NC, Nashville, TN, and St. Louis, MO.

Enjoy! I have to make a trip down south to Florida for a couple of days but it's 'elective' so I'm going to wait until foliage - Probably mid- October. I plan to take US 27 much of the way - at least into southern GA.

I did the Cincinnati to Florida trip back in 2000 going the route my family did driving to Sanibel Island back in the early and mid- 1950's (after 1956 we flew most years). In our earliest adventures the expressways were 'planned'. It was Over the Mountains (the Smokey Mountains!) and Through the Woods! I remember (mainly through oral history, pictures and 8mm 'videos' - I was pretty young, but I *think* I have some 'real' memories) a lot of trials and tribulations. Many events came to mind when I saw National Lampoon's Vacation films (e.g. Broken axel at 11PM on a saturday night outside of Knoxville TN, rooftop carrier falling off during a heavy rain in Georiga with everything run over by trailing cars, grandmother pouring 'the boys' urine out of the passenger front window coming back in the window behind on my mother {boys used the 'milk bottle' while girls got to stop at a service stations...}). It was 3 very long days and you had to make the Sanibel ferry by 3.30PM or risk having to stay in a motel on the mainland {if you could find one that wasn't fullup} which I remember happened once.

I really enjoy travel. Did Route 66 twice - back in 1971 and again in 1998. Have done the North East New England foliage trip several times including October 1988 with our then 2 month old baby girl Ashley on our way to Montreal on, of all things, a US military weapons/intelligence trip. We found out what bear season was in up-state New York and into Vermont on that trip.

Like I say - ENJOY! And let us know how things went when you get back!

Just wanted to wish you all well, and to continue to post feedback, questions, and concerns. I'm off on Vacation until August 10 so I will be unable to post.

Time to take my motorcycle across the east coast and down the Appalachian Mountains on a 2500 mile bike trip.

Watch on Monday, a site that I have been developing over the past three weeks will launch to coincide with our Quality Advertising Campaign.

www.makegoodgreat.org

For those of you not on the ASQ mailing list

Under the title of Image Enhancement CampaignASQ Ads Make Their Debut in August

ASQ's advertising campaign hits the streets in August. The campaign, Make Good Great (TM), is designed to raise awareness of the value of quality and the quality profession among senior leadership in major corporations and organizations around the world. The campaign is primarily print based, with ads appearing in major business and industry-leading trade publications. Radio and media relations bring an integrated approach to the initiative.

Each ad features our new ASQ tagline, "Make Good Great (TM)," and a call to membership action-- "Join the Movement"-- and will list a new Web site, www.makegoodgreat.org, and a unique toll-free number with special content and specially trained customer service agents.

You can do your part to get the word out about quality and ASQ. Encourage others to visit the site. Clip and send the print advertising, or make fine copies, and mail them with a personal letter from you to business and community leaders, to colleagues and friends, prompting them to experience life in the quality community, the quality movement. Use the materials to help ASQ reach farther than every before around the world. Contact ASQ headquarters for more ideas to leverage these big-impact ads!

Have they given up trying to enhance the image with members that they are having to go out side?

I'm surprised they can TM three common words...

For those of you not on the ASQ mailing list

Under the title of

Have they given up trying to enhance the image with members that they are having to go out side?FWIW department:
Our fellow Cover (ASQ_Web_Offerings_CN) wrote http://elsmar.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=83614&postcount=116:
Watch on Monday, a site that I have been developing over the past three weeks will launch to coincide with our Quality Advertising Campaign.

www.makegoodgreat.org (http://www.makegoodgreat.org)

Seems like we'll have an inside track for answers if our motorcycle rider is willing to divulge when he returns.

Well, the site does look very nice, and is easy to navigate. From that perspective our traveling friend seems to have done a great job. But, I am not so sure about the content of the campaign itself. Time will tell, I guess.

Anyhow, it looks like ASQ_WEB has been working hard and no doubt deserves a little R&R.

I'm surprised they can TM three common words...Trademarks are "narrow." The protection is limited to the specific industry and sometimes only to a geographic area (item in RED is the trademark)

(Mom & Pop store in Keokuk can't prevent Mom & Pop store in New York City)

The main point of protection is to limit confusion, so Mom & Pop trucking is not protected against Mom & Pop tuckpointing in the same town or anywhere in country if both are national organizations.

The big money in court battles is if one claims "people will think our organization is disreputable just because it has the same trademark as those terrible people who make a different (horrible) product and tried to steal the goodwill we've built up . . ."

Only slightly off topic:

Does it seem odd the ASQ would split off this campaign to a completely different site instead of bringing folks to see the main ASQ site?
Is the ASQ ashamed of its main site?
Does ASQ think it (main site) will NOT motivate people to join?
If so, how can they expect the main site to KEEP current members motivated to retain membership?
Just some questions I would have raised in FMEA (Failure Mode & Effects Analysis) and Poka Yoke (mistake proofing.) But then, I'm only a member and my opinion and input was never sought.

Trademarks - There is state level and national level. When we trademarked the name of our restaurants we just did a state (Ohio). We could have done a number of states individually - like Ohio, Indiana and Kentucky, but we didn't (and don't) expect to be expanding out of state so it wasn't worth the extra expense. The name was 'available' for trademark in Indiana and Kentucky, but we just didn't see the need. And, as I said, there is also a national registration. So, technically Mom & Pop store in Keokuk can prevent Mom & Pop store in New York City if Mom & Pop store in Keokuk bought trademark rights for the state of New York even if Mom & Pop store in Keokuk does not have a 'place of business' in New York state.

You are right that it's industry specific.

An unbelievable vacation crossing 10 states, 2417 miles, 7 days. I must say that those of you living in the PA, VA, NC, and TN states are very blessed with beautiful terrain. By far the best area of my trip was the Great Smokey Mountain area at the TN, NC border. HWY 129, a motorcycle paradise. www.dealsgap.com

Now back to work:


Does it seem odd the ASQ would split off this campaign to a completely different site instead of bringing folks to see the main ASQ site?
Is the ASQ ashamed of its main site?
Does ASQ think it (main site) will NOT motivate people to join?
If so, how can they expect the main site to KEEP current members motivated to retain membership?


1. ASQ split off this site as a springboard web site to coincide with the ad campaign. It was determined that this site reflects the advertising campaign and stem off more information that you can't include in an ad. Due to the sheer size of the ASQ web site, and our current plans to redevelop the site, we decided that this was the correct direction to head. We are in the process of benchmarking best practices, and redefining the navigation of the organizations web site to better serve our customers and members.

2. ASQ is not ashamed of its main site, but is cognitive of its lack of satisfaction, thus our efforts now are focused on the accumulation of data and research to create a site that fulfills customer/members expectations and ASQ’s organizational goals.

3. ASQ's main site will motivate people to join, but is not developed to deliver the sort of scheme that the new www.makegoodgreat.org site offers. We want to offer the ability for customers to see more information, and deliver content in a fashion that is easy, logical, and applicable to their trigger event that brought them to us. The navigation scheme of makegoodgreat is simplistic, and delivers concise information. We are looking to this design as a direction we want to head with www.asq.org. In the past ASQ's web site was built from an internal perspective only, not taking into account how users navigate, or what initially brought them to ASQ in the first place. In the future the perspective has to be changed from an internal to an external.

4. We hope that with improvement, communication, and time we will be able to retain membership. We, from a web perspective, hope that we can deliver a product that is appealing and an asset to a quality individual. We want ASQ to be a device that delivers content that a customer/member needs, and options on how to better themselves in their quality world. A key in this area is further development of our quality tools online. Continuous improvement is our mindset, and customer satisfaction is our measuring tool.

We are in the process of benchmarking best practices

Marc,

You should be proud that your site is a "best practice" that is being benchmarked!

It will be interesting to see how this information is used.

3. ASQ's main site will motivate people to join, but is not developed to deliver the sort of scheme that the new www.makegoodgreat.org site offers.


The last time I was really motivated to join anything was in 1968 when I enlisted in the MARINES :eek:
It will take more than a website my friend

The last time I was really motivated to join anything was in 1968 when I enlisted in the MARINES :eek:
It will take more than a website my friend

I stand corrected, ASQ's web site will not motivate people to join, it is the individual themselves who decide their motivation, we just hope we have and continue to develop materials that are applicable to the quality world as a whole, and can provide an arena that quality individuals will respect and want to be a part of for furthering Quality, themselves, and their professions.

I stand corrected, ASQ's web site will not motivate people to join, it is the individual themselves who decide their motivation, we just hope we have and continue to develop materials that are applicable to the quality world as a whole, and can provide an arena that quality individuals will respect and want to be a part of for furthering Quality, themselves, and their professions.

OOO-RAH

BZ

(very good)

I stand corrected, ASQ's web site will not motivate people to join, it is the individual themselves who decide their motivation, we just hope we have and continue to develop materials that are applicable to the quality world as a whole, and can provide an arena that quality individuals will respect and want to be a part of for furthering Quality, themselves, and their professions.

And I, for one, think you are doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

:applause:

Dave

we just hope we have and continue to develop materials that are applicable to the quality world as a whole, and can provide an arena that quality individuals will respect and want to be a part of for furthering Quality, themselves, and their professions.

This is great as a type of mission statement. Nicely said :agree1:

Marc,

You should be proud that your site is a "best practice" that is being benchmarked!

It will be interesting to see how this information is used.
I am. I've even tried to keep Randy in control so he doesn't scare them away... :rolleyes:
And I even put in a direct link tp them on the sidebar. :mg: Imagine that.

I am. I've even tried to keep Randy in control so he doesn't scare them away... http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/rolleyes-a1.gif
And I even put in a direct link tp them on the sidebar. http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/omg.gif Imagine that.For my part, I think the link to http://elsmar.com/info.html is extremely valuable. On my own, I had accumulated only about 10% of the sites listed there in my own "favorites."

http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/offtopic-d2.gif With regard to effect of Randy or any other "hard questioner" - if you put yourself forward as an expert and can't take and/or deflect criticism, you're probably in the wrong business. I'm not talking pure "spin doctor" type stuff, but at some point you have to prepare yourself to deal with questions without losing your temper or huddling into the fetal position and sucking your thumb. Worst, of course, are the ones who whine and snivel to others, "It's just not fair!"

In the past ASQ's web site was built from an internal perspective only, not taking into account how users navigate, or what initially brought them to ASQ in the first place. In the future the perspective has to be changed from an internal to an external.

We hope that with improvement, communication, and time we will be able to retain membership. We, from a web perspective, hope that we can deliver a product that is appealing and an asset to a quality individual. We want ASQ to be a device that delivers content that a customer/member needs, and options on how to better themselves in their quality world. A key in this area is further development of our quality tools online. Continuous improvement is our mindset, and customer satisfaction is our measuring tool.

:applause: :applause: Now you are getting the idea. That is all that some of us ASQ members wanted. I encourage you to keep learning about quality concepts. Steve, Wes and some others that I know I am not mentioning should be complimented by ASQ for their persistence.

As for myself, I renewed my full membership and have even responded to some ASQ postings but the Cove still rules.

Bill Pflanz

As an experiment as to the moderation etc of the ASQ forums I posted what could be seen as a provocative message in the Automotive forum

North American only
Posted: 10:06 27/07/2004
In these days of ISO/TS16949 and the demise of QS9000 is the Automotive Forum really not wanting to discuss any thing that is not connected to the non North American industry?
Are we welcome?

Title of forum
"Hosted by the Automotive Forum/Division. Topics of discussion relate to every discipline represented in the vehicle manufacturing and supplier business of the North American automotive industry; heavy truck; off-highway; and agricultural, industrial, and construction equipment industries."

To date (13 August) no reply

As an experiment as to the moderation etc of the ASQ forums I posted what could be seen as a provocative message in the Automotive forum



To date (13 August) no replyIt could be because you posted in a Forum few have access to. I have no access to that Forum. Of course, this just illustrates my constant "rag" about my opinion the Forums should be open to everyone and not "closed."

(Danger - bitter satire ahead!)
For example, the Quality Management Division had its own "password protected" forum for years (pretty good software, too), but in the last year, there were only 8 posts and half of them were mine! Probably, the reason is we QMs are so "knowledgeable," we don't EVER have to ask questions. We assume everyone in our position thinks the same way we do, so there would be no purpose to posting a "controversial" issue, since we would NEVER disagree with each other.

BACK ON TOPIC:
Try the same post in "Ask a professional" where Steve Prevette has been invited to be a "moderator." Apparently that Forum is open to more people, but I have no idea how non-ASQ members can find it.
(Try http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/index.jspa (http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/index.jspa) for non-ASQ folk and see what happens - please report back to us whether you can get in or not.)

BACK ON TOPIC:
Try the same post in "Ask a professional" where Steve Prevette has been invited to be a "moderator." Apparently that Forum is open to more people, but I have no idea how non-ASQ members can find it.
(Try http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/index.jspa (http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/index.jspa) for non-ASQ folk and see what happens - please report back to us whether you can get in or not.)


I got in without difficulty.

Yes, I clicked the hyperlink and got onto the board. Tried several "searches" and eveb when I only put in a single, simple word like "audits" I got this back:

"No results - please try a less restrictive search." :confused:

Think I will stick with the Cove, for now. ;)

I got in without difficulty.Great! (I presume you used the link http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/index.jspa)
What Forums were listed as available to you? I get to see 20 main Forums.


Ask A Quality Professional This discussion board provides opportunities for ASQ members to ask questions of their colleagues. Whether it’s a challenge at the office, curiosity or the opportunity to respond to questions, this board provides a wide range to topics from six sigma to leadership to healthcare.
Aviation, Space & Defense Hosted by the Aviation, Space & Defense Forum/Division. Topics of discussion encompass the manufacturing, service, and government sectors of the commercial aviation, defense, and space industries. Join us to network with members of the DOD and FAA; and NASA, contractors, and subcontractors.
Career Corner This discussion board complements the monthly Career Corner column in Quality Progress by providing a place to discuss the career challenges facing quality practitioners today. Ideas, comments, suggestions, and questions regarding careers in quality are welcome subjects in this discussion board. This discussion board also provides a forum to discuss ways to improve and utilize existing ASQ Career Service offerings.
Current Events Tire recalls. Election recounts. Sarbanes-Oxley. This discussion board provides a forum for you to share your thoughts and opinions about the relationship between quality and the news that’s making headlines. 2
International Quality The focus of this discussion board is to provide opportunities for members to discuss quality topics from an international perspective. Potential topics of discussion might include multinational operations, international standards, or even cultural and economic considerations as they impact the application of quality principles. Share information and insights with professionals working in quality around the world.
Human Development & Leadership Hosted by the Human Development & Leadership Forum/Division. Our discussion community includes anyone involved in the leading of personnel, or the development of human capability, whether it is at work, in volunteer organizations, or in their communities.
Quality Disciplines and Technologies This discussion board focuses on the quality disciplines and technologies used by quality professionals. A sample list includes discussions of tools and techniques, definitions and processes.
Quality Progress This discussion board is open to all Quality Progress readers who would like to exchange comments, suggestions, questions and ideas inspired by articles or letters to the editor in the magazine.
Quality Management Welcome to the Quality Management Forum/Division On-Line Message Board. Contributors of our lively discussions come from all levels of management including executives, managers, supervisors, team and project leaders, and quality professionals aspiring to those positions. They also include educators, facilitators, engineers, consultants, authors, and other quality professionals.
Customer Supplier Hosted by the Customer Supplier Forum/Division. Join in this discussion to exchange ideas about all aspects of the customer-supplier relationship, from initial design and development engineering to manufacturing to the end product.
Quality Roundtable This discussion board features wide-ranging conversations on quality issues in business, quality management philosophy, and business process reengineering/improvement.
Quality Audit Welcome to the Quality Audit Division Message Boards! Hosted by the Quality Audit Forum/Division. Members of this discussion community include individuals responsible for auditing the quality elements of management systems and manufacturing and service processes.
Electronics & Communication Hosted by the Electronics & Communication Forum/Division. Join our discussion board to network with quality, reliability, telecommunications, and communications practitioners. Topics of discussion might include all levels and types of electrical, electronic products, major service providers, and their suppliers in telecommunications (TL 9000) and communications products and services.
Information Integrity Hosted by the Information Integrity (I*I) Interest Group.
Discussion Board Suggestions
Metrology This discussion board focuses on Metrology as it relates to accreditation, measurement process, traceability, measurement uncertainty, and other calibration-related issues.
Quality Standards (ISO 9000/14000) This discussion board is open to all members who would like to exchange thoughts, provide insight and post questions on ISO 9000/14000 related topics.
Process Capability Studies Hosted by the Statistics Forum/Division.
Designed Experiments Hosted by the Statistics Forum/Division.
Six Sigma Hosted by the Statistics Forum/Division.
I am told there are more than 1 Six Sigma Forum. I certainly don't see Automotive. I've never seen a post by our current glorious ASQ leader, Mr. Case.

I am with you Wes on opening up the Forums. The software forum is a virtual dead zone. I have received only one reply to a post I did 15 days ago and that post was 12 days after posting. Not very busy! ASQ does not seem to understand that with posts and replies a message board is useless. I think software quality practitioners could learn a lot from other industries.

Although reposting in the Ask A Quality Professional would probably get more coverage it sort of defeats the purpose of having the forums. Any thing I can do to help push this cause let me know.

Great! (I presume you used the link http://www.asq.org/discussionBoards/index.jspa)
What Forums were listed as available to you? I get to see 20 main Forums.


Yep, that's the link I used.

I clicked on it again to count the number of forums and now they've disappeared. I get the page but under 'Discussion Board/Category' there's nothing listed.

But I remember now that there were two: 'Ask A Quality Professional' and maybe 'Discussion Board Suggestions'.

Huh. :confused:

I Thought I would have another go, so I clicked again theat same hyperlink. To amke it easy for the "Search" I thought I would enter "ASQ": this is what I got (I've done a paste and stick job):

-----------------
Search Discussion Board Content
Search Terms: ASQ
Category or Discussion Board: All Categories
Date Range: AllYesterday - 8/12/04Last 7 Days - 8/6/04Last 30 Days - 7/14/04Last 90 Days - 5/15/04This Year - 1/1/04Last Year - 1/1/03
Results Per Page: 101530

No results - please try a less restrictive search.
Did you mean: SQ
--------------------
Perhaps their own boards have not heard of the ASQ?

I am with you Wes on opening up the Forums. The software forum is a virtual dead zone. I have received only one reply to a post I did 15 days ago and that post was 12 days after posting. Not very busy! ASQ does not seem to understand that with posts and replies a message board is useless. I think software quality practitioners could learn a lot from other industries.

Although reposting in the Ask A Quality Professional would probably get more coverage it sort of defeats the purpose of having the forums. Any thing I can do to help push this cause let me know.ASQ members who agree with Russell (and me, plus a few others - main exception is Steve Prevette) should email directly to each of ELECTED ASQ officials. (paid staff have no benefit to pleasing ASQ members - they only answer to elected officials and each other)

the contact info can be obtained from ASQ
The elected officials are listed here
http://www.asq.org/join/about/board.html
call or email ASQ to get the contact info for each (they sure don't make it easy to contact them once they get elected.)
ASQ toll-free and email:
Send E-mail to Customer Care
For a timely response, please include your member number in the subject field of your e-mail message. A Customer Care Representative will respond as soon as possible, usually within one business day. Send your message to help@asq.org (help@asq.org).

Speak to a Customer Care Representative
Customer Care Representatives are available during the following hours:

Monday7 a.m. to 6 p.m. CSTTuesday7 a.m. to 6 p.m. CSTWednesday7 a.m. to 6 p.m. CSTThursday 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. CSTFriday7 a.m. to 5 p.m. CST
North America: 800-248-1946
International: 414-272-8575
Fax: 414-272-1734

Contact Us Through the Postal Service
American Society for Quality
600 North Plankinton Avenue
Milwaukee, WI 53203
USA

P.O. Box 3005
Milwaukee, WI 53201-3005
USA

AllanJ,

I also followed the link and searched for "ASQ" with the same null result. I also noticed that none of the discussion boards were listed - even the supposedly open "Ask a Quality Professional"

Being a member, I then "signed in" and tried again. Now the full list ofdiscussion boards was visible. This time I got 217 matches when searching for "ASQ"!

I hypothesize that you can only search the boards to which you have access.

"guests" apparently aren't allowed to see any of the boards and hence can't search the boards. (There isn't even a link to the boards on the guest homepage.)
"associate members" (or whatever they are officially called) can sign in a search a few boards
full members can search all of the "standard" boards
members of specific divisions can search the "standard boards" plus the division-specific boards.

Tim F

If this keeps up I'm going to send a bill to the ASQ for troubleshooting their forum(s) AND their organization...

:soap: I don't think I mind this chatter, but folks - The Elsmar Cove forums are different from the ASQ forums and always will be. The Elsmar Cove forums are, and always have been, the 'Dark Side' where every day people speak their minds (Sometimes more bluntly than I would like...) and ask questions of their counterparts in other companies and seek advice from others such as the consultants and registrars - WORLD WIDE - who frequent the forums. It is a forum kept online by 1 person - me {moi} (excuse me whilst I take a bow... :naughty: )- which is significantly supplimented and enhanced by people like Claes, Howard, Jerry and all the other moderators - Not to mention all the Contributors (both $ and by way of posts). No 'Big Money' here. I'm going to give a BIG 'Tip 'O the Hat' to Jerry E for his YEARS of answering questions here related to calibration. Thanks, Jerry!

The ASQ forums are - well, for 'professionals' who like a restricted group of people. The old Jennejohn ISO Listserve was a bit like that. In the 'early days' of the internet I visited NGs and subscribed to many listserves. Those of you who have read through these forums have seen that back in the old days I actively went out and foraged for information and brought much back here. I found topics I thought interesting and 'replayed' them here. The sources were all public groups. In the ISO Listserve group there was an uproar when one person complained. I replied to the listserve that yes - I was sometimes copying posts from there to here. I explained that it IS a public listserve so I didn't see copyright issues or such. On the listserve I watched and about half said 'have fun', a few said 'big deal', while about few were incensed. :mad: They saw that as their 'private' space or whatever. I offered to remove any posts by anyone who objected to my 'stealing' their listserve posts. No one ever contacted me asking that. Bottom line is some looked at it as their 'party line' (from the old telephone days when people shared lines) - It was OK for the locals to listen, but not to be broadcast to the world.

In the early days I did this because the internet was young and I saw the forum idea as a way to 'database' information. There were so many interpretations of ISO and QS clauses going around I wanted to catalogue them. I was early in the game to point out that take the same company, different auditors, yeild = different interpretations - about which I bitched and complained. So in part this forum initially was for my personal interest, if you will. I was living in motels and short term furnished apartments - since about 1989 - and when I started this I was living in motels and it was in large part initially something to do at night. I'm not a bar person. My point is this started out as - and I believe wildly (well, if I believe what some people tell me) succeeded as - a database for quality related information. I still consider it as 'mine', but I share it with the world - and for almost everything - in part due to Google's AdSense right now - the site is a 'free' site. Just Register (free as of right now) and you can download over 2000 files. People Helping People. People who come here are 'everyman' from everywhere. Always has been - And as long as it's online with me at the 'helm' it will continue to be.

That's one thing that significantly turned me off about Chris Paris of Oxebridge. I criticised his '40 Day Implementation Wonder' program (Perry Johnson has the same thing) here in the forums back when he was (as he still does) spamming the quality NG. In his complaint to the Attourney General of Ohio he played the 'terrorist' card (see http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=8692 ). June's 'winner' was from Malta. Transfer was Western Union. US$150 for submitting an article could possibly be supporting terrorism??? :lmao: I mean, really now - Get a life, Chris Paris. Point is: There is a lot of 'Reality' here. Advertising hype is exposed. A sales person trys to sell you on a 'Guaranteed 40 Day Wonder Implementation' - You can get some advice here on the reality of such a claim. And Chris Paris, who owns Oxebridge, didn't 'drop' his complaint, the Attourney General of Ohio's office told him he's got nothing to complain about and filed his complaint in the 'circular' file.

You want an example form or template to give you ideas? Pay a company or -- Come here and download attachments for free, not to mention the files in the 'pdf_files' directory.

Ask yourself - and comment in this thread if you like, Why do you come here?

I do exercise my 'editorial rights' - Yes folks, it's MY site... I remember not 2 years ago being accused of violating someone's 'Free Speech Rights' as if it was my legal and/or moral responsibility to allow them to freely post whatever they wanted to post. Give me a break...

In the early ISO and QS days I was heavily learning. I saw NGs and listserves as obsolete because of the issue of searchability. A database was where it was at, or going to be, in my opinion. Thus - These forums.

At the same time I have been the skeptic and it shows. I was never an ISO 9000 fan and I hated QS-9000. Not because what they contained was not 'best practices', but because of the wide net cast where even good suppliers were caught in the net and forced into a system targeted at 'bad' suppliers.

As far as the ASQ goes as an organization, look to history back to the guilds and as recent as today's unions. The ASQ is experiencing what the guilds and unions experienced. Even ASQ 'certifications'. Many claim to hold them in high esteem. But when the rubber meets the road, whether you are hired or not is more an issue of a combination of personality, experience and personal achievements than any certification. The ASQ is declining in 'significance' and there is nothing the ASQ can do about it. Their current 'Big Deal' new web site, philosophy, whatever - is nothing more than advertising to try to cast a broader net at any cost to add to their $ income base. Guilds and unions saw it - The ASQ is seeing it. Relevance. As a drastic, but appropriate, contrast look at the AMA (American Medical Association) and look at the changes over the last 30 years. Recently, and i apologise for not remembering who posted the analogy, but the Model Railroaders are also having the same experience. I remember my father's - two 4 x 8 plywood sheets in a special room. American Flyer, if I remember correctly. Fake grass, electric switches - you name it. He also did remote controlled 'model' airplanes including a four engine (Big 'FOX' engines) bomber (he was in WWII). Point is: I'll bet this 'decline' in membership and participation is common to most 'interest groups'.

All that said, you're here. The Elsmar Cove forums. If you like it here, please do stay around. If you don't, it's a big internet out there. Go for it!

I know I started off this post with "I don't think I mind this chatter", But I'm changing that statement. As far as the ASQ discussions go - I've reached a point where I would really prefer that the troubleshooting of the ASQ forums and the ASQ as an organization move to the ASQ forums. As I read through this thread in some places it gets sorta uncomfortable - As if some of you are wanting to redo the ASQ forums in the image of what is here. Flattering, to some degree, but unrealistic. And in some respects, it's almost like saying to me - "As soon as we get the ASQ forums up to snuff we're out of here'.

Think about it...

Last comment - For the complainers I've seen very little feedback in http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9065 ...

--END RANT--

EDIT ADD - Clarifications: 20 Aug 2004:
Chris Paris does not own Oxebridge.
Oxebridge's 40 Day Implementation carries no guarantee.

Recently, and i apologise for not remembering who posted the analogy, but the Model Railroaders are also having the same experience. I remember my father's - two 4 x 8 plywood sheets in a special room. American Flyer, if I remember correctly. Fake grass, electric switches - you name it. He also did remote controlled 'model' airplanes including a four engine (Big 'FOX' engines) bomber (he was in WWII). Point is: I'll bet this 'decline' in membership and participation is common to most 'interest groups'.


Thanks Marc for your comments. This is a great place to learn and apply principles to career and personal life.

I came in to the model railroading world because when I was first interested I found a group of modelers that were willing to share their knowledge and experience because they ENJOYED modeling. Likewise, I have found much benefit in The Cove.

It took me a year to find The Cove after I first got my feet wet in the Quality world. I was "promoted" out of the IT Group (e-business administrator) to the quality assurance group. Boy did I have to learn fast. I have learned so much in the last couple of months just be monitoring The Cove daily than I learned in a year from formal training courses and industry literature.

Anyway, I saw the model railroad reference and it caught my eye and I thought I'd post something about it.

Jaime

I hesitate to add on to this topic, but a few observations:

1. I did bring up the model railroad reference. It is interesting that there has been an intertwining of the two topics this month. A railroad discussion board has been discussing the evils of MBO, and I gave a statistical presentation at the National Model Railroad Association convention last month. (see http://users.owt.com/prevette). And I am the Office Manager of the Pacific Northwest Region of the NMRA.

2. I think Marc is providing a valuable resource and location for ASQ discussions. Perhaps if we can get Wes Bucey on the board as an outcome, that will be a worthy effort.

3. Things go really really really slow at ASQ. Many ideas get kicked around, few get implemented. No, I am not yet a member-moderator.

4. After today, I will be away from computers for 2 weeks. Alaska cruise. Yes, the cruise ship offers an "internet cafe", but I hesitate to even think of the charges, and besides, I like you folks, but I just as soon would be away from a computer for 2 weeks.