Typically, Quality positions in automotive industry ask for only candidates from automotive industry. However, the Quality tools used in automotive industry are NOT something NEW to the Quality professionals from other industries.

What is that the automotive firms expecting to achieve by recruiting only the candidates from automotive industry?
How difficult is that transition?
How should candidates from other industries market themselves to penetrate into the automotive market?

Thanks,
Govind.

Dear Govind:

Very nice post. I am eager to see what the responses are like.

I know that GM has hired key executives from other nonautomotive industries - including P & G (Smale, famous for making Crest toothpaste a household name) and Bosch and Lamb (from teh eye care and eye glasses industry, the product was Aztek).

So, I agree with your basic premise. However, as in the case of all such transitions, one has to learn what I call the "vernacular" to succeed. It is like moving to a new country. People are people, you do the same things in the new country, but you also have to learn the "local" norms and customs. For some, the transition is not easy. With my warmest regards.

Charmed :)

Very interesting post.

Talking with colleagues who have moved between Automotive & Non-Automotive companies one of the biggest differences appears to be the pace of work, with Automotive running flat out with little time to step back, usually due to the demanding customer down the road. I guess that the automotive quality engineer may be considered in a position to be able to hit the ground running with the customer.

Another thought thats possible is that the Automotive industry arrogantly views itself at the pinnacle of Quality. A look outside the industry shows though, that a number of non-automotive operations now have QS-9000 / TS-16949 accreditation. Companies advertising as requiring Automotive only cannot stop anyone applying for a position. It’s how the CV / Resume is structured that will determine whether or not an interview will follow.

If someone can paint the picture that they understand the Quality Requirements for the position at hand and give an good representation of themselves in their experiences to date I’m sure that the Automotive Only requirement would be waived for an interview. Then at the interview it’s just a case of reinforcing your desires, achievements and experience to impress enough to secure the opening.

Dear S-bell:

Having worked in the automotive industry, I can assure you that the following is not true.

Another thought thats possible is that the Automotive industry arrogantly views itself at the pinnacle of Quality.

Before I came to the automotive industry, I was in the aerospace industry and I had to design experiments that were ABSOLUTELY guaranteed NOT to fail. When I moved to automotive, they told me, I would have fun with some "red necks" out here.

Guess what, the folks were quite friendly. Like I said, it was just like moving to a new country. I tried to connect to people. The most favorite thing we would do was to buy each other coffee. That usually meant, I am OK and you are OK. I had a lot of friends among the UAW members. When I wanted something done, they would literally drop what they were doing and go out of their way to help me. And I was the guy who came from the R & D environment to the manufacturing environment and the "shop floor" as they say. They knew I would roll up my sleeves and work with them. And they showed me what to do, when I wanted something done.

What's the point? These folks are far from arrogant and certainly don't view themselves as any pinnacle of quality. I am sure they recognize they have a lot to learn in improving quality.

Of course, I did not work at Toyota. So, I cannot say what it is like there. I am talking only about the US Big Three. I sincerely hope this helps.

Charmed :)

Dear S-Bell:

You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about this though.

I guess that the automotive quality engineer may be considered in a position to be able to hit the ground running with the customer.

Why didn't I think about saying this first? Like someone said in another post, don't say 5% rejects, say 95% conformance and we are taking steps to go to 99% conformance.

What you have noted here, about hitting the ground running is very very true. I had to do that. But the coffees helped a lot. Believe me, I learned to drink coffee at work only after I moved to the automotive industry.

Charmed :) :agree: :agree: :agree:

Typically, Quality positions in automotive industry ask for only candidates from automotive industry. However, the Quality tools used in automotive industry are NOT something NEW to the Quality professionals from other industries.

What is that the automotive firms expecting to achieve by recruiting only the candidates from automotive industry?
How difficult is that transition?
How should candidates from other industries market themselves to penetrate into the automotive market?

Thanks,
Govind.The following is true in most industries (what they THINK, not what they say):

I want someone like me who can fit into our culture smoothly.
I want to know what you can do for me now, NOT what I can do for you by training you in my business.
These are not necessarily "prejudices" - they are "biases" - a slightly less pejorative term.

When crafting your presentation to folks in a different industry, country, etc., you have to do some research to determine

What is the culture and how can I fit into it?
What skills and experience do I have that will be useful to these people from day one?
Knowing the answers to these questions and shaping your presentation to help them understand you do fit into the "biases" will give you a better shot at getting the job.

It is useless and counter-productive to complain about the bias; it is much more fruitful to understand and determine if you want to fit in.

Knowing and understanding the culture is the key to the situation.

Personally, I'd examine my motives for wanting to be in a certain country or industry before I expended time and energy on the research. Sadly, the research may induce you to change your target.

"Coda" It occurs to me this post may not be "concrete" enough for some because it doesn't give examples. Please let me know and I'll start a new thread about dealing with kinds of culture, methods for recognizing them, and samples of how to get past the "gatekeeper" who screens the initial application.

Dear Wes:

Most eager to hear from you about....

samples of how to get past the "gatekeeper" who screens the initial application.

That would surely stimulate a lot of discussion and interest.

Charmed :)

P. S. Every job I ever held was because someone led me through the gate, past the gatekeeper, to whoever became my boss. Often the gatekeeper happy to welcome me too. I was usually recommended by someone who knew me well and the rest was pretty much formality. Of course, of course, I did not know this then! I do now.

Good discussion.
Thanks to all who provided their ideas.
Keep your thoughts flowing in…Thread is open to suggestions.

S-bell and Wes, I agree with your feedback. “Charmed” hit right on target w.r.t Gatekeepers.
HR and recruiters will look for QS 9000 implementation and automotive
experience right when they scan the resume. Job descriptions and requirements point right to these pre-requisites.

I see this trend specifically in the Automotive and biomedical industry. Telecommunication industry seems to welcome professionals from other industries.
Principles of Quality Management is the same irrespective industry it is being applied. I think, the industries should welcome professionals from other sectors to get fresh ideas to flow in.

We are in a knowledge-based economy. Automotive industry should benefit from SEI CMM Models and benchmarking used by Quest Forum of Telecom, Software organizations should benefit from 8Ds,FMEAs and control plans from automotive.
If organizations keep recruiting people from the same sector, how will this cross pollination of ideas happen?

Govind.

Five years ago when I was looking for a job, I also felt like you had to be born into the automotive industry. I think part of the problem is the specific requirements of the automotive standards like QS 9000. Another issue is practical experience with the sampling, design planning, statistics etc. that are unique (or felt to be unique) to the automotive industry.

Of course, you don't see too many people that are able to switch into a totally different industry especially if you have been in the same one for a lot of years. It probably isn't so much impossible as rare. I was able to switch from chemical to banking but it probably helped that I had an MBA in Finance besides my quality background. Learning terminology was the hard part but applying quality methods was not hard at all. I have used control charts, sampling plans, and many other quality tools.

Good question, Govind. I would like to hear from those in automotive about hiring from outside the industry.

Bill Pflanz

Dear S-bell:

Having worked in the automotive industry, I can assure you that the following is not true.

I agree completely :agree: the Automotive industry is nowhere near the pinnacle of quality, however I've dealt with a number of OEM's over the years and nomatter what experience you have they are almost arrogant in their approach to quality. Sorry if my point got mistaken, Bill hit it on the head what I was intending to get across with the following.

Another issue is practical experience with the sampling, design planning, statistics etc. that are unique (or felt to be unique) to the automotive industry.

I agree with all that the "Gatekeeper" is the hardest hurdle to get over. Once you get past the initial recruitment stages and get involved with your potential peers things should get easier. One way I've found to get around this issue is to use a specialised recruitment company who understand the overall industry, and recognise the skills required to perform in a certain position somewhat better than a companies own human resources (HR) dept. These people tend to keep an open mind when choosing who to put forward for interview. The recruitment companies are taking away a lot of the stress from the company recruiting and in most cases will perform first interviews on behalf of the company recruiting. Impress these guys and you're almost certain to get past the gatekeeper (in the UK anyway). Is this different in the States / Canada etc?


P. S. Every job I ever held was because someone led me through the gate, past the gatekeeper, to whoever became my boss. Often the gatekeeper happy to welcome me too. I was usually recommended by someone who knew me well and the rest was pretty much formality. Of course, of course, I did not know this then! I do now.

Ah the old adage "its not what you know, but who you know". Being known to the industry and having a profile is a sure fire way of getting past the "gatekeeper"

As a follow up, at a recent exit interview from my previous company the HR staff actually asked me what I did in my job! These people were the gatekeepers! :topic:

Excellent thread. I don't really have anything to add that hasn't been pointed out. To me it's the same if you use FDA or nuclear or aerospace vs. automotive - Why is it so hard to cross over? Each has it's own focuses and 'aspects'. Usually crossover can be done, but in many cases it takes a lot of 'work' from the person crossing over to learn a lot on their own.

Each is a specialty. A heart surgeon and a podiatrist may both be medical doctors, but to crossover in specialty would be quite a leap. Quality is a supporting service common to many 'specialties' in much the same way.

I come from a very diverse manufacturing background broken down as follows- Quality Controller (1993-1996) in a company that had 4 divisions on one site namely, Automotive division (Radiator Manufacturing), Non-ferrous division (Copper, Brass, Bronze), Sheetmetal and components division (Radiator parts, fuel tanks, Jerry cans, e.t.c and lastly the Plastic division. In this organization I was responsible for the co-ordination and Supervision of quality department and reporting to the Technical Manager.

From 1996-2003, I was the Q.A. Manager for a small/medium wire manufacturing company. Then after that I had a very short stint with the Aviation industry as the Q.A. Officer. I am currently employed as Lead Auditor (ISO 9001) with a renowned and leading Certification Body.

I have previously struggled to forward my CV to Automotive companies. The company that I initially worked for in the automotive sector does not count favourably in my CV, notwithstanding the fact that this company is a tier 1 supplier to a Nissan and Mazda assembly plant jointly owned through some cooperation with the government of my country. I have remained abreast of the developments in the automotive sector particularly those related to the Core tools and standards development.

I am very much annoyed by the automotive sector, in that they become very selective on whom they bring on board. During my working years I have been intrigued and challenged by the Non-ferrous metals division operations- Continuous Casting, Horizontal and Vertical Extrusion Plants, Tube and Wire drawing, Rolling, Tungsten and Satellite Dies Preparation through Spark Eroders etc.

I have no regrets how my career has unfolded but at times I just sense that the automotive sector has become too stringent on who they want and what they want.