Just found out from our registrar that SAE is requiring everyone holding an AS9100 certificate to be entered into their "OASIS Database" at a per-entry cost of $500. In three years they'll establish a new recurring cost (alleged to be under $500) which will be every three years. When WILL these people get their hands out of our pockets? Wish I could get $500 for making a database entry.

<fuming> :mad:

Greg

Dear gburns:

Interesting! I am starting a new group which will certify this database!

I fume too when I see atrocities like automatic late charges, as high as $25.00 in some cases, by companies like SBC (in particular) and others that I have to deal with every month. I was most amused when a strictly voluntary group starting charging late fees for membership dues.

Charmed (may be not this time) :)

I agree with both of you.

Its all about the money......

Wha..? What's an OASIS Database?

Online Aerospace Supplier Information System

Among other information, it lists approved accreditation bodies, registration bodies, aerospace-experienced auditors and, finally, the registered suppliers that have already attained accredited registration

www.iaqg.org/oasis.

Thanks for the link, cnc. :agree1:

Online Aerospace Supplier Information System

Among other information, it lists approved accreditation bodies, registration bodies, aerospace-experienced auditors and, finally, the registered suppliers that have already attained accredited registration

www.iaqg.org/oasis. (http://www.iaqg.org/oasis.)I have been a registered user of this site (I use it so seldom I forgot I had a password), but I sure don't see the value for the suppliers. I wonder if the $500 is per certificate or per listing? Honeywell has multiple listings by geographic area, but all on the same certificate. They got a bargain if they paid once for all listings, hosed if they paid $500 for each.

Seems to me the registrars (who are prominently listed with each supplier) get a free ride.

I've browsed around the site a little. I found our AS auditor on the list.

I can understand why someone (or some org.) would like to be prominently listed like that - but can someone explain to me why SAE is requiring it?

Just found out from our registrar that SAE is requiring everyone holding an AS9100 certificate to be entered into their "OASIS Database" at a per-entry cost of $500. In three years they'll establish a new recurring cost (alleged to be under $500) which will be every three years. When WILL these people get their hands out of our pockets? Wish I could get $500 for making a database entry.

<fuming> :mad:

Greg

Since I attend the AAQG meetings and have heard this complaint quite often, I just want to mention that the fees charged are supposed to cover the costs of developing and maintaining the database. Remember that the database is supposed to be available 24/7, worldwide. Personally, I believe that, IF aerospace suppliers are subjected to fewer QMS oversight audits, because their customers can rely on the OASIS database information, $500 is VERY cheap. The question is: will suppliers be subjected to fewer QMS audits?

Please note that OEMs are using the information in the database to reduce their supplier QMS assessments. For example, Airbus announced that they will rely on the OASIS information as the proof of AS9100 compliance. They might still do assessments, but with another focus, e.g. product/process audits, etc.

On another related issue, much more concerning than the $500, imo, is the fact that some of the sensitive data about the AS audit results, such as score, number and categorization of findings, etc . . is entered into the OASIS database. As far as I know, only SAE has access to that information for the time being, but when this process got started, the intention was for the OEMs to have access to that information. Personally, I strongly object to that, since auditor and registrar variation have a tremendous impact on audit results, but the possibility does exist that, in the future such information could be made available to certain individuals. As we all know, no database is hack-proof, thus there is a concern about information getting in the hands of wrong people…..

Dear gburns:

Interesting! I am starting a new group which will certify this database!

Charmed (may be not this time) :)

Charmed, I am curious. Which group you are referring to and certify the OASIS database against what?

Since I attend the AAQG meetings and have heard this complaint quite often, I just want to mention that the fees charged are supposed to cover the costs of developing and maintaining the database. Remember that the database is supposed to be available 24/7, worldwide. Personally, I believe that, IF aerospace suppliers are subjected to fewer QMS oversight audits, because their customers can rely on the OASIS database information, $500 is VERY cheap. The question is: will suppliers be subjected to fewer QMS audits?

Please note that OEMs are using the information in the database to reduce their supplier QMS assessments. For example, Airbus announced that they will rely on the OASIS information as the proof of AS9100 compliance. They might still do assessments, but with another focus, e.g. product/process audits, etc.

Frankly, I haven't seen any reduction of customer audits, and I'm not anticipating such reduction, either. And $500 to enter the record of an audit is audacious. They should be blushing with shame to ask such a price. That much money would buy the burdened labor of a highly schooled and skilled professional for several hours. Either SAE has the slowest typists in the world, or they're paying them $2000 per hour (I can't imagine it taking even 15 minutes to enter a certificate's information.) It's just another example of the 800 pound gorilla in the jungle doing what he wants. Now that everyone is hooked into AS9100 they've started swinging the ugly stick. I wonder what comes next? Seems like the OEMs have found a new way to push the lower tiers around.

</bitter rant mode off/>

</smile mode on/>

I feel better now...

Greg

Either SAE has the slowest typists in the world, or they're paying them $2000 per hour (I can't imagine it taking even 15 minutes to enter a certificate's information.) Greg

Actually the information is entered by the CRB admin people, NOT SAE's.

Awkk, ackk, ugh.... You're givin' me a heart attack. Please, no more!

Tomorrow, December 2nd, the SAE will implement some important changes and functionality to the OASIS database.

Each supplier listed in the OASIS database will have the option to, selectively, give access or not to the supplier's Assessment Results Summary and Scoring Data.

For more information check here (http://www.iaqg.org/iaqgdb/supplier-admin.htm).

Though the cost seems high at $500, as a user of the database it has saved my company time and money not having to survey or audit our suppliers that are listed there.

As for the possibility of reducing audits by the primes. I would have to say that we have not seen a reduction so fare. As a mater of fact in the last 30 days we have suffered through 5 full QMS audits by the primes even though we have informed them that we have attained accreditation and are listed in OASIS.

Sidney, Thanks for the INFO about the upcoming SAE changes.

As for the possibility of reducing audits by the primes. I would have to say that we have not seen a reduction so fare. As a mater of fact in the last 30 days we have suffered through 5 full QMS audits by the primes even though we have informed them that we have attained accreditation and are listed in OASIS.

Sidney, Thanks for the INFO about the upcoming SAE changes.Jeff, I would encourage you to provide this feedback to the AAQG. While nobody can prohibit a customer from performing supplier assessments, the OEM's had committed themselves to reduce QMS audits, provided the suppliers attained Accredited AS9100 certification. The OEMs were supposed to focus their attention on process/product audits. If this is not happening, the people at the AAQG level should be aware.

Up until recently, the chairman of the AAQG was David Eagan, from Northrop, but he resigned. I can send your feedback (if you want me to) through my AAQG contacts.

Sidney, Thanks for the INFO about the upcoming SAE changes.
Yeah, what he said!

Sidney, Good point regarding AAQG and the reduction of audits. I will take it up with the boss and see if he would like to send formal letter of complant.

Jeff, earlier this morning I was involved in a AAQG subteam meeting and I spoke with the person who is the RMC chairman about your scenario, without naming anybody. He offered to bring this up during the next AAQG meeting, if you provide the feedback. He reminded me of a couple of things as of why some OEMs might still be performing full QMS audits on to your organization:

1. Is your organization listed in the OASIS database? I assume you are.
2. If the local FAA office has not granted the OEM permission yet to rely on the AS9100 certificates, their (the OEM's) hands are tied. Meaning they have to keep performing supplier QMS audits until the FAA office allows them to change their process of supplier oversight.

In this case, instead of using the word complaint, I suggest feedback.

Sidney, thanks for more input. Yes I will suggest that my boss write a feedback letter to AAQG because we are listed in OASIS.

Each AS9100 certified organization, listed in the OASIS database, should be receiving the following communication letter, shortly.

AS9100 certifed as of today !

Congratulations!! :applause: