Hello friends :) ,

I find somewords meaning in my 3 months experience, these words are totally related to ISO. I feel very happy if you judge these.

1. What is system?
System is combination and interaction of the processes

2. What is Process?
Process is Combination of Procedures.

3. What is procedure?
Procedure is nothing but a task/ activity done by whom,why,when and where.

Please Let me know, weather I captured right information or not. I learn these topics with my experience.

I am waiting for your replay.

Thanks & Regards,
Yugender. K
ISO Quality Department
IIC Systems Pvt. Ltd.

Hello friends :) ,

I find somewords meaning in my 3 months experience, these words are totally related to ISO. I feel very happy if you judge these.

1. What is system?
System is combination and interaction of the processes
2. What is Process?
Process is Combination of Procedures.
3. What is procedure?
Procedure is nothing but a task/ activity done by whom,why,when and where.

Please Let me know, weather I captured right information or not. I learn these topics with my experience.

Yugender

One of my hobby horses! If you are just starting out, you have a good chance of avoiding some of the pitfalls of the "traditional" definitions, some of which are actually compounded by ISO. I find that the “traditional” definition of a process is confusing at best and ignores some essential elements that are key to successful process management. The definition seems to be rooted in the same manufacturing or continuous production process background associated with ISO9000:1994, which caused the service sector such difficulty in interpretation.

Forget about “ … transforms an input by adding value to create an output.” In particular, forget about “inputs” and “transformations” - they are concepts that get more confusing the more people try to define or explain them. For example, “an input is transformed but a resource is left intact” – but “staff” and “equipment” are then given as examples of both. Or “a methodology is an input” – which implies that after you use it once, you’ve lost it (since it will have been “transformed”).

One of the key questions asked in process improvement initiatives (“does this step add value?”) actually contradicts part of the definition “… an input by adding value to create an output”. The implication of added value (or even of transformation) is no more justified than Integrated Management’s claim to “achieve optimum use of resources”. The intention is worthy, but by no means all processes have been defined efficiently or are managed well, nor are all staff aware of and focussed on achieving the process objectives.

I suggest that you concentrate instead on the following definition of a business process:
“a sequence of related tasks that is triggered by an event and which is intended to achieve an objective. It uses resources and is subject to influences”.

The “trigger” event can be an action (“a customer gives you an order”) or a decision (“we’ll carry out a management review next week”). Whatever it is, you are working towards achieving something as soon as the trigger event has started the process. This Objective(s) will typically include the production of an Output (a “product” or “deliverable” – something which is produced - which may well be related to the trigger event) but you may also need to allow for other Outcomes or consequences (planned and unplanned).

An Output is “put out”, whereas an Outcome “comes out”, not necessarily where (or when) you expect it to appear. But these consequences need to be anticipated and managed.

So - what is a process? It can be anything from “making a decision” through “organising a meeting” to “producing training materials” and ““tendering for work”. It can be “defining a process” or “running a business”.

There is a common lack of appreciation that processes are dormant until triggered – they don’t ‘do’ anything; much as a sleeping dog doesn’t bark (or bite?) until you step on its tail. And a process is not a generic, uniform entity that is always the same. Each time a process operates, some of the elements will be different or may not even exist. If you manufacture to order, the customer and requirements may be different, different staff and machinery may be involved and different suppliers and raw materials may be used. The trigger and the result (the order and the satisfaction of the order) may be the only “constants”. Each “journey” through the process is a unique “instance” of the process. It can be useful to think of each instance of a process as a separate “project”, to be managed individually.

What is a management system? It is:
“the structure, processes and resources needed to establish policy and objectives and to achieve those objectives”.

This definition includes (or alludes to) all the important elements of an organised approach to management. A “system” is a “set of interrelated or interacting elements, considered as a connected whole” – not very helpful, but vague enough not to cause any bother either. It is the elements of the management system that need to be considered in detail.

And finally: a "procedure" is merely a "specified way to carry out an activity or a process". So a process definition is a procedure.

Don't get hung up on definitions and "explanations" in ISO9000/9001 - after all, what on earth does anyone understand from ISO9000:2000 section 3.4.2 "Software consists of information and is generally intangible and can be in the form of approaches, transactions or procedures".

Hope this helps.

Yugender100,

Here is my humble take on a few of the words

System = The Business

Process = A Set of interrelated or interacting activities which transforms inputs into outputs.(the actions)

Procedure = Specified way to carry out an activity or a process (may be documented)

Product = Results of a Process

Effectiveness = Ability to achieve desired results.

Efficiency = Results achieved against resources used

@ Peter...

that's a very good explanation for it all. i do have problems in explaining it to my peers in differentiating a process vis a vis a system.
sometimes, we interchange a system into a process... like for example calling the 'New Business system' instead of defining it as a process. Also, confusion also comes when we are actually referring to the the 'computer program' and call it as the New Business system.

Thank you very much for this.

Hello:

Lots of good infornmation here. All processes added together make up the system. Many processes, one system. When you document a process, the document is a procedure. A procedure is a formalization of a process.

Yes, the concepts are confusing. We should all consider referenceing ISO 9000:2000 which includes defintions of these words. ISO 9000:2000 also includes "Fundamentals". The first few pages of ISO 9000:2000 sets the stage for the ISO 9000 series and shold help clarify the difference bewteeen process and system. The last pages of ISO 9000:2000 includes methodology used in the development of the terminology. Many people never read ISO 9000:2000 let alone the concept diagrams in the back of ISO 9000:2000 which help clarify the terminology.

Finally, you should go to the following website and read everything especially the guidance document on terminology.

http://isotc176sc2.elysium-ltd.net/

If you add the great info on this thread and the documents I suggest that you read, you should end up with a better understanding of quality systems and the sub-components (processes).

Regards, Dirk

Another thought, if one intercahnges the terms "system" and "process" becasue of the lack of good defintions and understanding, then the "Process Approach" as described in ISO 9000:2000 becomes impossible. It is mandatory to understand these concepts to truly implement a ISO 9000 series conforming *system*.

Regards, Dirk