Could someone provide me with additional information on GM's layered audit?

I can't seem to locate any information at GMSupplypower.com other than a passing mention of layered audits in the GP5 procedure. Searching the GMSupplypower site turns up a folder titled "Layered Audits" yet contains nothing. I was unsuccessful in locating any QSB information that may contain the requirement for layered auditing also.

Any help would be most appreciated.

:thanks:

It you do a search on this website for "layered process audits", I believe you will find what you are looking for. It has been discussed in these forums before.

Hi Mike,

Yes, I performed a search for layered process audits on this site and it does not yield the information I am asking about. I see that I was vague in my question about what I was looking for.

What I would like to obtain is the requirement by GM, to perform the layered audits.

In those threads that I found regarding layered audits, one of which I responded to a while back, there is nothing linking or citing the actual requirement by GM. Yes, there were mentions of the GM Layered audit but there was no mention of the specific requirement that requires one to perform the layered audit. Perhaps I am overlooking it? All I have found in the forums here is the requirement by DCX to perform Layered audits which I already had from the DCX CSR's.

I am looking for the GM equivalent. Thanks again.

Hello Randy,
See if the clause Layered Process Audits in the pdf file on this site helps, ***DEAD LINK REMOVED***

Thanks sal,

Unfortunately that is the DCX requirement which I do have. I am looking for the equivalent for GM.

Thanks for trying though :)

Randy

I just looked all over and could only find a "reference" in the Global SQ Manual on Page 63. It states there is a "Layered Audit Video". Perhaps your Supplier Quality Engineer could shed some light on how to get a copy.

Thanks sal,

Unfortunately that is the DCX requirement which I do have. I am looking for the equivalent for GM.

Thanks for trying though :)

I don't know if you have the following ***DEAD LINK REMOVED***
Like you said there is no particular mention to layered process audits in the GM specs

Also I have the one for Ford...see attachement........this, sort of hints layered audits....in the internal audit section.

It seems that only DC state the requirements for layered audits in their customers spec, Ford and GM may waiver such a requirements or don't apply it in full.

IMHO it would be advisable to contact GM and address your question to them.

We are suppliers to DCX, Ford & GM. So far DCX is the only one that has made known its intentions for layered process audits. I received from DCX a schedule of 4 hour seminars that they are requesting their suppliers to attend.
So much for the for the 3k that our company spent on the TS audit class. Just another waste of company funds.

Randy

I just looked all over and could only find a "reference" in the Global SQ Manual on Page 63. It states there is a "Layered Audit Video". Perhaps your Supplier Quality Engineer could shed some light on how to get a copy.


Thanks Bill. I found references to layered auditing also in the GP5 procedure but nothing concrete.
c) Develop, implement and validate the permanent corrective actions, along with improved process controls (i.e., error proofing, layered audits, setup checklists, standardized work, operator training and certification program, etc.)


It appears that the requirement stems from GM's QSB. I will have to investigate further.


Sal-Thanks again. I do have all of the csr's from the "Big 3". With Nissan and Toyota a bit of a different story though. :confused:

Sam-Same here. Ditto what you said. :mad:

Thanks again everyone.

Am attaching a presentation excerpt sent to me by a fellow cover. (Thanks Smitty :D )

In anticipation of GM and Ford falling into line with Chrysler concerning the Layered Audits, has anyone out there even heard a whisper of this occuring? If so, when? :eek: :whip:

When the attached Chrysler training was held, several DCX employees were in attendance and they were certainly NOT pleased with their supplier comments/attitude. Usually, one of the big 3 put out an idea/mandate and the other 2 sit back and measure the fallout. I have not heard anything about Ford and GM entering the fray.

Please disregard the notes on this attachment, it was in pen & I couldn't erase it. :(

Sorry, could not get the upload to attach - it's too large even zipped. If you want a copy, please send me an e-mail and I'll send it out to you.

While you won't find a specific requirement regarding Layered Audits from GM, you will find that if you have ever had a quality issue with them (i.e. CSI or CSII), part of your corrective action will be that you have to complete a Quality System Basics (QSB) workshop. Part of the workshop includes Layered Audit activity. One of the workshop outputs are Action Items to address any deficiencies in meeting the QSB. Therefore, you will have to implement a Layered Audit process in order to successfully pass a 3rd party audit (which you will pay for), which is necessary to exit CSI/CSII. So, while they haven't specifically required it in writing, they require it through the back door. By the way, if you have the DCX requirements, you basically have the GM requirements.

I have the Workshop Information for the Layered Audit for GM. I hope it helps :)

Layered audits is part of GM Powertrain Quality System Basics (QSB) requirements

Thanks for the information PatMaz.

Thanks very much for sharing!
I'v learned something new here.:applause:

Thanks very much for sharing!
I'v learned something new here.:applause:
Welcome to the Cove! :bigwave: I learn something new here every day!:D

I sympathize with the automotive primes and their desire to assure consistency in their supply chains by dictating the use of a LAYERED process audit.

Thanks to all who have provided answers and examples in this thread and its companion thread What is a Layered Process Audit (LPA)? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=11170)

I have a minor nagging feeling that somehow the value and use of objective Control Charts and SPC to identify trends indicating the process is on track or off track (and thus trigger "keep as is" or "begin root cause analysis" decisions by mangement) is being neglected in favor of redundant subjective opinion, which, despite the introduction of forms and charts, is nothing more than "management by walking around."

The frequency requirement for these layered audits may be necessary for a completely dysfunctional operation, but is non-value added for a smoothly efficient operation.

At some point, the "independent, arm's length contract" between buyer and seller becomes a thinly veiled employer/employee contract and may trigger some government anti-trust regulators, not to mention tax men seeking to reverse rulings which save primes from inventory and asset taxes in various jurisdictions.

I have read numerous threads on the subject of Layered Audits.
I have also read that some people have actual software systems developed to manage the Layered Audit system.
Can anywhere share their software with me or point me in the right direction?

axelman1

At our Company we perform 4 types of Layered Audits. Layered audit "A" for Management ( to be completed once a month) Layered audit "B" for Quality ( to be completed once a week) Layered audit "C" for Production Supervisors/leadhands ( to complete one a week) and a Layered "D" audit that is done daily and handed in at the end of the week by Production departments.
I have made an excel chart where I keep track of the audits by Letter and chart information of who, where, when and what was found, if it was approved or not approved and if Corrective Action is required and when the Corrective action was completed and closed.
I also have Workshop information on Layered audits (GM) that I passed around the forum a few years back (that I can send you if you like) when I implemented it into our Company. I would be happy to assist you with any info you may need or could email you a sample of the spread sheet I have created in excel to track all Layered Audits.
Good Luck :tg:

axelman1

At our Company we perform 4 types of Layered Audits. Layered audit "A" for Management ( to be completed once a month) Layered audit "B" for Quality ( to be completed once a week) Layered audit "C" for Production Supervisors/leadhands ( to complete one a week) and a Layered "D" audit that is done daily and handed in at the end of the week by Production departments.
I have made an excel chart where I keep track of the audits by Letter and chart information of who, where, when and what was found, if it was approved or not approved and if Corrective Action is required and when the Corrective action was completed and closed.
I also have Workshop information on Layered audits (GM) that I passed around the forum a few years back (that I can send you if you like) when I implemented it into our Company. I would be happy to assist you with any info you may need or could email you a sample of the spread sheet I have created in excel to track all Layered Audits.
Good Luck :tg:


Any chance you would be willing to upload it here for other members?
:thanx:

Dave

Thank you for your reply.
Yes, I would really appreciate if you could send the spreadsheet and the forms that you have developed. I would also appreciate the GM workshop info that you mentioned.
I think sharing the documents with the group would be great as well.
Maybe others can take a look at your documents and give feedback to help all of us.
I am trying to implement a Layered Audit Process that meets GM's QSB requirements while remaining as streamlined as possible. The supervisors are extremely busy already and they are concerned about not having the time to devote to this process.
Do you have any actual databases created to track the entire system along with the nonconformance resolutions?

Dave

I tried to upload the Layered Audit Workshop information, but it is telling me that I have alrdead posted it. Which I did about 2 or 3 years back.
I am not sure how to post it again. Please advise

PatMaz:mad:

Try changing the name of the file.

Look at post #13 (26th October 2005) of this thread for PatMaz's upload:
Layered Audit Workshop.PDF (http://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4158&d=1130334278)

No need to re-upload.

B.G. Wiehle

OK. Thank you.

GM 1927-3 is available on Supplypower and requires layered audits. I was just gigged by Smithers in a recert audit.

GM 1927-3 is available on Supplypower and requires layered audits. I was just gigged by Smithers in a recert audit.

Do you supply GM Powertrain, or make "high-risk" parts?

What does it mean by layered audit? something new?

If you look in this forum you will find a lot of information on Layered Audits
Start here What is a Layered Process Audit (LPA)? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=11170)

No, just some metal stampings, nothing high risk and nothing to Powertrain.