Hey fellow Covers,

I am planning my first trip to our two plants in China, and am a tad nervous. I'd appreciate hearing form any of you who have been there and done that, especially from women who have been there.

My need for education involves:
1. Personal safety
2. Local customs (tipping/no tipping, eye contact, male-female roles etc)
3. Adapting to local foods and sanitation (Western bathrooms are not available at either plant)
4. Tips for surviving the flight and resetting your internal clock
5. Immunizations: if optional, do you get them or not?
6. Any learning experiences that could help a rooky

Thanks!

Rosie,

I highly recommend you check out www.flyertalk.com. It is a forum similar to this (even the same software I think) of all frequent flyers. I know they have a forum for women travelers in addition to safety, locations around the world, frequent flyer programs, etc. It is about the best travel resource I have found. The existing threads can probably answer all of your questions and 1000s more.

I can also help with number 4. I just invested in a pair of noise-canceling headphones for the trip I am currently on from Detroit to Guadalajara, Mexico. They have microphones that "listen" to the background noise and generate the opposite soundwave, to cancel out aircraft engine noise. Not 100% effective, but much better. I found I was much more relaxed and less tired after six hours in flight yesterday. The model I bought is the Sennheiser PXC-250, about $130. There are cheaper models, but these got some of the best reviews - again from flyertalk.

Hope this helps,

Tom

Thanks, Tom. I just registered with flyertalk.com and appreciate the help!

The state department issues guides on travel to various foreign countries, so I'd check that out. I'd also invest in a guidebook for visiting China from a local bookstore. As for foods --- take as much as you can carry! :D I have not gone to China but know some who have and the food was...well... VERY different! For example, turtle soup entails dropping the whole turtle in the pot and cooking it all. :eek: The large cities have more western-style foods, the smaller ones are very different. If you don't wanna eat something, or not much of it, use the excuse I used in Korea -- "I have a bad cold and I just don't have any appetite"!

Your internal clock is gonna be screwed-up no matter what, but what has worked best for me is not to sleep overnight, gut it throught he next day, and try to sleep long and well the next night. No booze helps, as does lotsa water and some vitamins.

Good luck -- let us know how it goes!

Wear a maple leaf so everyone will think you're a Canadian. Just kidding... Everyone that I've talked to that has been to the PRC has said that it was a great trip. Most say that they'd rather go to China than to most Western European countries.

:lol: I'm about 3 hours from the Canadian border, Randy, so maybe I should go soak up some Canadian culture to go along with my maple Leaf, Eh?

I almost traveled to China last year (Novosibirsk, Russia), and my advice is:

1. hydrate, hydrate, hydrate!!! Stay away from caffeine on the plane, except if you need that AM coffee jolt.

2. Set your watch to the local time when you leave, so your brain can adjust to the fact that you are in a different time zone/day.

3. the headphones are probably worth it. It's also worth it to get up every 1-2 hours to stretch.

4. like another poster, I tried the sleep deprivation thing. That's personal choice. If you can sleep on the plane, that works.

5. pack lots of snacks that you like. In Russia, we found that the food was quite a bit different, too. For example, it is almost impossible to find a green salad. There are lots of salads made with meats and pickled veggies, but it sure ain't no Ceasar salad! If you order fish, expect the whole thing to arrive on a plate! You will probably find one or two dishes that you really like, and it is perfectly OK to keep eating them.

One cultural thing I do know is that if you are offered something by your host to try at a restaurant, it is an insult to not taste it. However, if it is really disgusting, too spicy, or possibly unsafe, I think you can decline. I remember one time in Mexico eating the parts of a cow that should not be eaten in my opinion. I knew that it was brains, and I did taste it. Of course, that was before the whole mad cow thing................. I would refuse it today.

6. don't drink the water! But you already know this one. I was amazed to find out that so many countries do not purify the water from the tap system.

7. from a safety perspective -- talk with your host. They can tell you more about the areas where you will be, and what is prudent for a foreign visitor alone. You do have to be careful, as many countries and people these days do not necessarily think very highly of Americans. It's profiling thing, I guess.

Best of luck. The plane ride will be the worst of it.

--Jodi

Rosie,
We just sent a delegation over to China, with huge success and no horror stories back. One of our guys took his wife and 10 year old daughter, I was naturally concerned about their health and well being given that the daughter was allergic to many things of peanut base. Again, all went well. Food and water were no problem, they stuck to mainstream restaurants and bottled water.

Prior to their departure I had done an online search for chinese business culture and etiquette, and was well rewarded with interesting tips of all kinds.- I also provided information for the local embassy which included the local numbers for credit card companies (in case of loss or disaster)

For the touristy portion of their trip, they hired local English speaking guides, pre-arranged of course. This apparantly worked out extremely well.

Good luck, our people found it an exciting and vibrant country!:agree1: Hopefully you will have a good trip as well.

barbt

Thanks, Tom. I just registered with flyertalk.com and appreciate the help!:topic: I checked out the flyertalk site and was ASTOUNDED by the number of folks who had beau coup postings (Marc's multithousands would barely get a call there!) Random Sample:
Analise
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York, NY USA
Posts: 9,444

I almost traveled to China last year (Novosibirsk, Russia), and my advice is:

2. Set your watch to the local time when you leave, so your brain can adjust to the fact that you are in a different time zone/day.



I don't think this one would work with my old fashioned analog watch, since China is 12 hours ahead of me :D

Thanks for the advice. Others have said that the plane ride is the worst also. They do still feed you on international flights, don't they? (they sure don't on domestic flights!)

They do still feed you on international flights, don't they? (they sure don't on domestic flights!)
Most "major" airlines do provide a meal on flights that are over some minimum time - 2 hours, I think. That definitely includes international. On a trip to England last month, there were two meals ...

RosieA,
I visited China 3 times during 2001-2002 period. Stayed between 2 weeks to a month each visit. Great experience. We also have our plants in 2 different locations in Eastern China.
There are many positive things which you will know anyway when you land.

(Some of the) Lessons Learned:
Counterfeit Currency:
Be careful in handling currencies Example 50RMB (6.5USD), 100 RMB (13USD). Ask the taxi drivers; shops to break the change to lower denomination like 5,10 RMBs. There are a lot of Colour photocopied Currency floating around. This is being exchanged particularly from the cab drivers during evenings and nights. You can never tell the difference as a foreigner. I was victim few times. :bonk: Many shops in China use Currency counterfeit detection equipment during transaction.
Driving habits:
Request your company driver to drive back and forth. Cabs are not clean. All the Cabs are VolksWagen- Santana Model. Cab drivers don’t seem to follow driving rules. Drivers take too much of chances. Both drivers will push the gas to merge first. I was again a victim once and my cab was badly damaged. I was not hurt. But I stood hopelessly in the middle of the road :confused: with my very heavy laptop bag on my shoulder until both drivers finish their verbal fight in Mandarin. (My driver was later courteous enough to call another cab through his cell).
PM me if you want to know more.
This link will help you further:
http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/cfsi-icse/cil-cai/inter-source/w-en.asp?iso=cn

Regards,
Govind.

Good stuff, Govind. Thanks. The website was exactly the kind of stuff I was looking for. I also appreciate the tips on cabs! Our GM said his only nervous moment involved a cab ride, where the driver chose a long and roundabout route to avoid tolls. The GM, who didn't know this, was worried that he was being hijacked and was going to be dumped in an alley for the money he was carrying.

First trip is now behind me, and here are a couple things I learned to pass on:

1. Don't convert your US dollars in Hong Kong, if most of your time will be spent in the PRC. They have different currency systems.

2. Convert your money at the hotel not the airport for the best rate. Keep the receipt they give you, because you cannot re-convert your money without it.

3. Hotel room lights: you use your hotel pass card to turn the lights on. When you remove the card, it also turns off the outlets, unless the outlet is labeled "24 hour power". Lamps do not have switches. Hotel rooms have a master power switch or a console in the room that you can control the lights with.

4. If you're a people "toucher" be aware that touching is not a business norm in China.

5. At our factory there was one western style bathroom, however,toilet paper was not put in the toilet, but in the waste basket. (this was a yucky discovery)

6. Going from an internal city in China to Hong Kong is considered an international vs a domestic flight.

Other than the extremely grueling airplane trip, (where sleep was impossible becasue of turbulence) my visit went very well. Xiamen was my destination and it is a lovely seaside city.

Rosie and other Covers,

any more input / suggestions?

I will be travelling to China (Shanghai, Xiamen, Taipei, and Wenzhou) now in August to qualify suppliers (foundry and machining).

Hi Ted,
About the only other thing I can suggest is that you bring some western food if you have any qualms about eating local food. I brought things like Cup of Soup and Peanut Butter crackers, although I didn't have a problem with the food at all.

Taxi rides are better than any amusement park ride I was ever on. Wear your seat belt and don't sit in the front!

Rosie

Taxi rides are better than any amusement park ride I was ever on. Wear your seat belt and don't sit in the front!
Rosie

On Okinawa they used to be called "Skoshi Cabs" and they seemed to be driven by guys who trained to be Kamakazi Pilots:lol:

And they never get out of first gear for some reason...I kept my eyes closed.

China is what you make of it.
Take some snacks over with you -they will come in handy.
Locals push, they are not rude it is just the way it is
Most hotels have bottled water avoid the taps.
You can also drink the local tea (cha)- whole tea leaves in boiling water- There are plenty of locations to get the boiling water. I have the glass jars you will see.
Be early to the airport first there is first on and it can happen that you get bumped to the next flight once they have their aircraft filled. They realy overbook flights.
I would never drive and as covered by others the cab rides are exiciting.
The local parks in the evening are great to get out and see. The exercizing and other activities like drumming groups are very intresting.
Learn to say hello- nehow- and thankyou -sha she ne- always smile but do not show your teeth.
TRY the local food and follow the following rule if it tasts good eat more if it does not tast good pass and try something else and if it was realy good you can ask what it was:cool: You can always find a starbucks and other western fastfood if needed.
Take some basic over the counter meds But if you get a chance you have to see a real local pharmicy!
Understand that they will tell you exactly what you want to hear. They aim to please. You need to work to make sure that you know what is realy going on and keep them on track.

:2cents:

Knee-How (Hi) Rosie,
Kiss Bow or Shake hands is a wonderful book and topic that can be found on the web that will help with culture issues.
I have been to Suzhou China (approx 1.5 hrs drive from Shanghai) 6 times for my company and I love every minute of every trip!
As far as safety, just be wise don't flash money etc.. use all the same common sense that you would if you were traveling within any foreign country. :yes:
TAKE YOUR OWN TOILET PAPER!!!!!!!!! and always have it with you, we call it our "visa" because you don't leave home with out it! The small kleenex pocket packs are great. No western toilets, you will have to over come this in your mind first and then it is easy from then on out. I am the master of the squatty potty now:lmao: I don't mean to get too graphic here :mg: but just remember the closer you are to that ceramic hole in the ground the better, don't try and pretend there is a seat and there isn't.
Food... when in Rome...... if you are not a picky eater then go for it! I too take cheese and crackers and cup of noodles for back up. But because I was willing to try just about anything my coworkers and I seemed to bond quicker than others who wouldn't. If after I tried something and I didn't like it they had no problem with me telling them that I didn't like it.
Jet lag, I always try to stay up as long as I can the night before my flight, by the time I finally get on the plane and in my seat I am ready to sleep. If I need help to enduce the sleep tylenol PM works for me. The neck pillows in the airport are worth every penny!
Don't forget to have fun!!! The Chinese people I have worked with over there are gracious hosts. On the weekends they always planned at least one sight seeing day, and 5000 years of history provides for some very cool sight seeing. :evidence:
Good luck, safe trip, and enjoy!!

I have been to Suzhou China (approx 1.5 hrs drive from Shanghai) 6 times for my company and I love every minute of every trip!

Hi, thats the place where I stay. Suzhou is a great place; clean, beautiful and full of history associated with it. :bigwave:

Suzhou is a very nice place and I can understand why they call it Paradice. The people are wonderful as well.

Ok, back from my 2 1/2 week trip to China !

It was simply FANTASTIC !!!! No major problems and no major worries.

The pushing and not respecting lines / cues was a problem for me at first, but then after a few days, I "joined" in and did the same... I took instant soup packages just in case but ended up bringing them all back home... my box of granola bars went fast but that´s because I am a pig. :notme:

Lunches and dinners were an experience, luckily I am pretty good at Chopsticks. Be careful if you say you are a beer drinker, you´ll leave the table sloshed and speaking fluent Chinese (at least YOU will think so !)

But all in all and INCREDIBLE experience and will definitely be returning frequently for job related purpose.

Way to go Ted!:agree1: Now the first trip is done and over with you can/will enjoy every trip much more don't forget to do the tourist things too

Hi Ted,

Glad to note that you had an enjoyable China trip.

Way to go Ted!:agree1: Now the first trip is done and over with you can/will enjoy every trip much more don't forget to do the tourist things too

Tourist things? Unfortunately didn´t have much time for that... in China (at least the factories I visited / audited) they work Monday - Saturday and I took advantage of the Sunday´s to travel to the next destination. I was pleasantly surprised by China and a country and people. I did visit Shanghai (Pudong side mostly - went up the Jin Mao Building - 88th floor and saw the sunset over Shanghai and went to the Yuyuan Gardens - really interesting !), Hefei, Qingyang, Wuhu, and Wenzhou. Very interesting visit... some very nice factories and some not so very "nice" (ISO 9001 certified)... but that is a whole other story... :notme:

China China...great option, You have fun!

The model I bought is the Sennheiser PXC-250, about $130. There are cheaper models, but these got some of the best reviews - again from flyertalk. I'm not a Bose fan these days, but has anyone tried the Bose noise canceling ear phones?

I'm not a Bose fan these days, but has anyone tried the Bose noise canceling ear phones?

I have not tried the Bose, but I think they are overpriced. The extensive marketing they do adds cost. I also am not a fan of any company that forces retailers to sell at their price (I avoid Apple too).

I am now using Sennheiser CX-300 (http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/productdetail.asp?transid=500830)in-ear headphones. I could not sleep on international flights because I would constantly knock my headphones off. With the in-ear I can actually lay on my ear and not even feel them. They do take some getting used to though. The sound isolation is much better than the noise canceling. You could be sitting next to me screaming and I would never hear you. They are much easier to carry too.

I have a Sennheiser TR-140 wireless headphone set I like a lot. I may check out the CX-300. Makes sense. I used to use ear plugs a lot when I flew to keep the noise down. I've even had stewardesses (or what ever they are these days) tell me to turn them off before takeoff! I remember one that told me to put them away until we were in the air anyway. I think she thought I was trying to put one over on her and that they were some kind of electronic earphones.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this! I am off for my maiden trip to China in January and will take the tips you've all given in this thread with me (especially the toilet roll and snacks!!).

Visiting mainly south china, Hong Kong/Shezhen area with a short trip to Ningbo for a day or so. Only going for a week, so its going to be hectic but I am kind of looking forward to the different experience. A little aprehensive but will have our guy from our Taiwan office who will accompany me, so that will be reassuring!

Any recent experiences on this would be appreciated!!

I will be traveling to China (Suzhou) January 2 through January 8. My self and one of our Manufacturing Engineers will be traveling to a sister company. Our sister company will be making pressure vessels for our company.
Production is set to start soon, we need to be sure the start up issues are minimized and that there are no capacity issues
This will be my 1st trip, looking forward to trip, not so sure about the long flight though.

Phil

I will be traveling to China (Suzhou) January 2 through January 8. My self and one of our Manufacturing Engineers will be traveling to a sister company. Our sister company will be making pressure vessels for our company.
Production is set to start soon, we need to be sure the start up issues are minimized and that there are no capacity issues
This will be my 1st trip, looking forward to trip, not so sure about the long flight though.

PhilRe: travel
Aircraft cabins are notoriously dry (low humidity, NOT absence of alcoholic beverages!) Keep hydrated (go low on alcohol - it dries one out.) Make every effort to get up from time to time to walk up and down the cabin aisle to prevent leg circulation problems and subsequent swelling or cramps. Of course, keeping hydrated helps that out by requiring frequent trips to the toilet;)

Re: Things to watch for in the "approval tour."


How much work are they doing now? How many workers? How many shifts? Can they ramp up to meet your production needs? How much training will new workers need? Who will affirm the training produces competent workers?
Is the capital equipment sufficient in capacity and [seeming] repair to add your work flow without stressing machines or maintenance schedules? (or requiring a large amount of new machinery?)
Watch the in-process inspection and finished product inspection closely - do the instruments seem like the ones you'd expect to see in ANY well-run company?
Do the workers and inspectors seem competent and efficient or is there a lot of hesitation and head-scratching resulting in starts and stops on the work flow?
Do the workers smile a lot as they go about their tasks or do they have stony countenances which might suggest they are under stress?
Have you arranged for some random samples of the current product line to check against the design specs to assure yourself they build product according to a customer's specifications? (it's no guarantee, but at least you will know they had competence to build one similar product according to specs.)

Hey fellow Covers,

I am planning my first trip to our two plants in China, and am a tad nervous. I'd appreciate hearing form any of you who have been there and done that, especially from women who have been there.

My need for education involves:
1. Personal safety
2. Local customs (tipping/no tipping, eye contact, male-female roles etc)
3. Adapting to local foods and sanitation (Western bathrooms are not available at either plant)
4. Tips for surviving the flight and resetting your internal clock
5. Immunizations: if optional, do you get them or not?
6. Any learning experiences that could help a rooky

Thanks!
__________________
Rosie A
Warrior Goddess of Quality

Rosie,

I have been to China many many times so I tell you this from experience. I have traveled there at least 40 times and stayed there for a six month period to prepare for a major product launch. To answer your questions:

1. Personal safety depends on what part of the country you are going to. Really not to much to worry about as long as you stay in the areas that cater to westerners. For instance, in Shanghai, not too much to worry about. Just stay on the main roads. Also, if you are going to out anywhere, tyalk to your conceige at the hotel. He will ensure you get a good taxi and give you some safety tips. Normally you will have a host with you and they will take you anywhere you want to go at any time you want to get there. That's your best bet because they can also help you with translating.

2. Local customs also vary by region but here are a few. Tipping most likely is not necessary unless you are in a truly western resteraunt. However I would tip the bellboy for sure. He can give you lots of information and if you do tip, he will always make you a priority. a dollar or two goes a long way. They only exception is if you are in Hong Kong. They are very westernized because they were a British colony not too long ago. The women vs. men role is about the same as 1950's USA. but it is getting better. Just treat everybody the same and you be safe. Last on this subject, I agree with previous posters. Always try the food if the host asks. If there is something you just cannot handle or maybe are allergic too, just tell him before he orders.

3. Normally they will have a "VIP " bathroom that is western style. If not, good luck. The toliet is just basically a hole in the ground that you'll have to squat over. Rest assrured the hotel will have the correct bathroom. DO NOT DRINK THE WATER. I CANNOT STRESS ENOUGH. DON'T EVEN RINSE WITH IT AFTER BRUSHING All hotels will offer free bottled water and so will the plants you are visiting. Just make sure you are using the free water. The hotel will also put in premium water (like eveian) and once you open it your are charged. It is very expensive just like here. Some places charge 10.00 per bottle As far as the food. I enjoyed everything. If you are a picky eater, you may have trouble. But you will be suprised on the taste of the food if you try it. Most is good. The opnly thing I would not try was the chicken feet. They chew on them as an appititzer.

4. I suggest you rest on the flight there. You will more than likeley arrive at night in China. Try not to sleep the first night and gut it out until the next (local of coursre). After the first day you should be OK. It was actually worse for me on the way back. Because there is so much to do when you get ther there is no toime to be tired.

5. Don't worry about immunizations. I have traveled many times and with many people and no one I know has ever gotten sick. Unless you plan on hiking in the jungle or something. If you plan on staying in the city and away from farms and the like, you'll be fine.

6. Enjoy yourself and be open to new things. You need to realize that China is an emerging country. There are a lot of things done that make you think you've stepped back in time. Stay open minded. My wife went with me once and all she could think of was the assbackward way things are done. She closed heer mind and ended up not enjoying herself and coming back with negative instead of positive.

Finally make sure you go to an open market and shop. It's great and i hate shopping so there you go. Also take in the local sites. China is very old with a lot of things to see. If Beijing is in your plans, do not miss going to the Great Wall. Visit a few local temples for the sightseeing. If you go to Shanghai, be sure to go dowtown to the TV tpwer, Jin Mao building, etc.

Hopes this helps. Good luck and stay safe. Anything you want to know in detail, send email or right replay in post.

hello, Rosie OH Warrior Goddess of Quality ! You are in for the time of your life. My advise to you, is relax and enjoy the ride. The flight is very long and pretty brutal, that is if you are in coach, hahaaa. I assume you will be in 1st or Bus class, so its not so bad at all. When you get there you won't feel right for about 3 days and then it gets better. The real big one is when you return to the states (if your stay is short) because your body revolts and wants to know "hey what are you doing to me here?" when you return you wont feel totally right for about 30 days. At least thats the way it has always been for me and I've done it 15 times and it never gets any easier. I wish you the best and have fun with it, because it really can be a lot of fun. The first time I went to Asia, it was so great! I loved it and I did not want to come home. The weather was fantastic (I'm from NY) the ladies were so friendly, the beaches were very nice and I had the time of my life. Enjoy, miss Warrior Goddess of Quality.

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, maybe because it applies only to Hong Kong SAR (afaik): Police that wear a red badge below the number on their shoulder speak English :)
I have never needed the police on any of my visits to Hong Kong, but I thought that was a useful bit of information, just in case.

I will be traveling to China (Suzhou) January 2 through January 8. My self and one of our Manufacturing Engineers will be traveling to a sister company. Our sister company will be making pressure vessels for our company.
Production is set to start soon, we need to be sure the start up issues are minimized and that there are no capacity issues
This will be my 1st trip, looking forward to trip, not so sure about the long flight though.

Phil

Suzhou! Get in touch with Ajit.

I will be traveling to China (Suzhou) January 2 through January 8. My self and one of our Manufacturing Engineers will be traveling to a sister company. Our sister company will be making pressure vessels for our company.
Production is set to start soon, we need to be sure the start up issues are minimized and that there are no capacity issues
This will be my 1st trip, looking forward to trip, not so sure about the long flight though.

Phil

Hi Phil,

Luckily I will be in Suzhou during that time (after long touring :)).

Pl PM me your details and would be great to catch up with you :D

Suzhou! Get in touch with Ajit.

Thanks Harry

Make copies of your passport, if for some reason your passport get's taken, stolen or lost you have a starting point. I practiced locking my passport up in my room when I arrived and I only carried a copy with me daily unless I was going from main land to Honk Kong or through airports. I had a bad experience with travelers checks my first visit, they didn't accept them. From then on everything went on my credit card and I always checked my card when it was returned to me as a partner had his switched at a bar and didn't realize until the next day. I also checked my hotel and card balance via email daily. I only stayed in hotels with high speed internet and ask for rooms facing the inside not the outside the traffic and horns never stops.
Besides that I love it over there, the food the sights and atmosphere.
Dont expect much just because someones QMS is registered, use your own eyes and if you suspect something isn't as it seems do not let the language be the barrier just approach it in the most polite and proffessional manner.

Enjoy

Thanks to all for some excellent advice!
I am visiting China (Shanghai) for the first time on February 7th. It will be a lightning trip, 4 days including travel, to do one audit, but I'm really looking forward to the experience.