Hello everyone

I don't know how to start and where.
I have recently been appointed Quality Manager, was sent to an internal
auditor course, and now they believe I am a Quality Manager.
We have one of these so called "canned systems" which makes it
impossible for me to find a structure in our QMS.
I am totally lost. Needless to say that there is not much commitment
from top management to Quality.
Well, so I struggle every day, not really knowing what I am supposed to do.
It is not that I do not have a clue at all, I just do not know how and where to start.
My question: is there a book on the market for someone like me, e.g. an Idiot's Guide??
I am not familiar with most of the terminology so I need a lot of
explanation.
I am interested in Quality and can see the importance of a QMS.
Is there any help out there?

newcomer

Hello newcomer, and welcome to the Cove :bigwave: Is there any help out there?Yes, you have come to the right place: Help is at hand, and we'll do our best to help you. First of all (small comfort, I know), many of us have been in similar situations. You are not alone...

Could you provide us with a brief description of your business, the canned system and what you think about it?

/Claes

Although it isn't a "quality" book per se, I would heartily recommend reading Tom Peters' ReImagine. It does help in the area of what one can do when they don't have traditional "power" in an organization.

Welcome to the Cove! I was in the same situation 9 years ago, and I didn't get sent to the internal auditing class right away.

We do need to know more about your business and the basic "canned" system that you have, in order to help you get started.

My first recommendation is to get a copy of your company's quality management systems manual and read it over. Then meet with the senior management and find out what they know about the quality system. You need to know how big the mountain is -- the one you are about to climb up so you can plant the "quality success" flag at the top!

Then tell us more about your company, and we can provide other insights. How many employees at your company? How many basic processes do you have? What are your biggest challenges with workers or with management?

--Jodi

Hi Newcomer,

I have also been where you are so you have come to the right place for help. You may want to do a search of the Cove for information on quality manuals which will give you a start. Also if your customers or suppliers have quality manuals and other documents that they will show you then that will give you an idea of how others have developed their QMS.

You also did not say what are the expectations for the quality system including a desire for ISO certifications. As you tell us more about your company, industry and your current knowledge of quality, we can provide more guidance. A good place to start is your local library since they may have some good reference books on quality.

It will be an interesting challenge for you that can provide great reward for you and your company so don't get discouraged.

Bill Pflanz

Welcome Newcomer,

You are in good hands with the folks here. Let me offer a few suggestions of my own. If you are in an area where you can get to some seminars about ISO, quality arena, whatever, go. It takes more than one class to really grasp the meaning of the standards if you are just getting started. Get some books, the suggestions are already rolling in, subscribe to some quality related mags..use the search function.

Do not panic. set small goals and be very detailed in your plan of attack. Take a motivational course that leans heavily on goal-setting, or take the Franklin planner course. (the actual how-to use the planner course) If you liked that one, take the 7 habits course. But, most of all you need to understand that if you set your mind to it and plan, you can do it.

Check the ASQ bookstore at www.asq.org. Also, you may want to buy the CQM "Certified Quality Manager" Handbook from the Indiana Quality Council (USA). Sorry, I do not know if you have a similar institution in your country. The handbook will layout very easily for you what is the scope of a Quality Manager position and responsibilities and some ideas on how to make things to happen. Then, you will have to deal with your top management. I have been in similar situations where I felt like the "ham and cheese of the sandwhich", between production daily numbers and customer requirements pressures. If there is no top management commitment, then it is very difficult to make any significant transformation by yourself, unless you can put in their language ($$$) a good quality cost presentation for them to realize that by improving quality you can improve productivity and the overall company performance.
Good Luck.

Hello and Welcome to the Cove,

I would recommend purchasing a copy of
• ISO 9000 Quality Systems Handbook, FOURTH Edition
David Hoyle
ISBN 0750644516
Approx $35.00 USA

OR

• Understanding and Implementing ISO 9001:2000, SECOND Edition
David Goetsch, Stanley Davis
ISBN 013041106X
Approx $35.00 USA

Read either one of these and you will be in much better position to discuss the whole topic.

Regards,
Roland Kelly
RolandKelly@msn.com Good Luck :D

IATCA Lead Auditor ISO 9001:2000 , AS9100 AA ISO/TS 16949 Approved

What are you going to do when you have been around for a while, the name I mean ? 'Cause I am sure you will be around for awhile.

Anyway Welcome. You have hit the jackpot by lobbing here.

I am sure you will get all the help you need, then some.

Greg B. is a person you surely will come across here. He is somewhat a prolific contributer and can be very helpful. I mention him as he is from Rocky.

As you may have already noticed there is help at hand so let everyone know a little more regarding type of business you are in and I am sure there are those in a similar or same business willing to lend a hand.

Welcome again and good luck in your new role.

Laurie

Hi.
I'm a new comer, too. Shortly after I was told two years ago in very uncertain terms that I was supposed to get the lab "to be 17025," I discovered that a "canned" chemical hygiene plan had been purchased a few years earlier, before I got there. Nobody uses it or ever has. 99% of staff members don't even know it exists. And it really doesn't exist--because nobody ever filled in the blanks: "Chemical waste shall be disposed of. Gloves shall be worn." It's an unread book on a shelf.

WHO shall dispose of it wearing what kind of gloves? My experience tells me that "canned" products fail when the organizations that use them haven't defined responsibilities clearly. And that's the real battle: Defining who's responsible for what. At least where I work, that's where the bottleneck seems to be. Hope this helps.

Welcome Newcomer!

Along with Roland's book choices, buy a copy of the ISO 9000 standard and related guidance documents from ASQ. (www.asq.org)

ISO 9000 is a good solid template to building a quality system. Do a gap analysis of your present comapny practices against the ISO standard and then fill the gaps. Once you've done that, and it's working well, you can enhance and build on the basic program.

Spend a bunch of time checking out the information on The Cove. It's really the best resource in the world for quality practicioners.

At some point or other, all of us have been in your shoes, so don't be afraid to ask lots of questions.

Thank you very much to all of you who responded.
I am overwhelmed.

Some facts about the company I work for.
We are:
a small company (some are here for over 15 years)
a wholeseller (we repair and service everything we sell)
certified to ISO9001:2000

The "canned" Quality System is best described as follows:
Lots of procedures.
Each has the volume of a novel.
It does not matter how often I read these procedures: not one of them makes any sense.
They do not reflect in any way how things are done.
The vision and mission statements are each one A4 page long.
Same goes for the Quailty Policy.

I have started mapping the business processes.
Each business process (procedure) defines the
"process scope", the "process owner", the "inputs", "controls",
"resources", the "outputs" and the "effectiveness".

A new organizational chart is also required
as no one really knows "who" is responsible for "what".

I guess my biggest problem is that when I read in the standard (yes,
I do have it) I do not know how to actually "do" things.

I am sure, you already figured that I have no background/experience in the Quality Department.
This is c o m p l e t e l y new territory to me. I do not even know what a
"Quality System" precisely is.

Thanks again for your support.

Newcomer

Some facts about the company I work for.
We are:
a small company (some are here for over 15 years)
a wholeseller (we repair and service everything we sell)
certified to ISO9001:2000

I have started mapping the business processes.
Each business process (procedure) defines the
"process scope", the "process owner", the "inputs", "controls",
"resources", the "outputs" and the "effectiveness".

A new organizational chart is also required
as no one really knows "who" is responsible for "what".

I guess my biggest problem is that when I read in the standard (yes,
I do have it) I do not know how to actually "do" things.

I am sure, you already figured that I have no background/experience in the Quality Department.
This is c o m p l e t e l y new territory to me. I do not even know what a
"Quality System" precisely is.

Thanks again for your support.
Newcomer

Sounds to me that you are on the right path. It boggles my mind that your company is registered to ISO-9001 and yet you are now mapping your processes and revising your organizational chart. That is pretty much how you do it!

Doug

The "canned" Quality System is best described as follows:
Lots of procedures.
Each has the volume of a novel.
It does not matter how often I read these procedures: not one of them makes any sense.
They do not reflect in any way how things are done.Nothing new there, I'm afraid. Many of us have been there. As a consequence we have been talking about this once or twice before. I suggest a look in the following threads (there are lots of them):

Size of QMS / Size of company - What advantages do small, simple organizations have? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=8311&highlight=note+2)
Keeping Procedures Simple (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6599&highlight=Note+2)
Am I doing to much work? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6083&highlight=4.2.1+note)
ISO 9001: Avoiding Over Documentation (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=8020&highlight=4.2.1+note)

Over to something I keep repeating: You are allowed to tailor your system to your needs. http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/smilies/yes.gif The extent of the quality management system documentation can differ from one organization to another due to

a) the size of organization and type of activities,
b) the complexityof processes and their interactions, and
c) the competence of personnel. Unfortunately, canned systems often pay little attention to that valuable note.I have started mapping the business processes.
Each business process (procedure) defines the
"process scope", the "process owner", the "inputs", "controls",
"resources", the "outputs" and the "effectiveness".Good move. You are finding out what you have before you set out to change it..I guess my biggest problem is that when I read in the standard (yes,I do have it) I do not know how to actually "do" things.Once again, many of us have been there. Try to ask specific questions. We'll try to provide guidance.I am sure, you already figured that I have no background/experience in the Quality Department.
This is c o m p l e t e l y new territory to me.I realize that the task must seem daunting then, but there are advantages too: You will have little in the way of preconcieved opinions about "how things should be done".

/Claes

You will have little in the way of preconcieved opinions about "how things should be done".

Welcome, newcomer. I agree with Doug and Claes, you seem to be starting off on the right foot. Your going to do just fine.

In addition to not having preconceived opinions of your own (good point, Claes) - don't let anyone else try to force theirs on you either. The standard tells you what has to happen, not how to make it happen.

Thank you very much to all of you who responded.
I am overwhelmed.

Some facts about the company I work for.
We are:
a small company (some are here for over 15 years)
a wholeseller (we repair and service everything we sell)
certified to ISO9001:2000

The "canned" Quality System is best described as follows:
Lots of procedures.
Each has the volume of a novel.
It does not matter how often I read these procedures: not one of them makes any sense.
They do not reflect in any way how things are done.
The vision and mission statements are each one A4 page long.
Same goes for the Quailty Policy.

I have started mapping the business processes.
Each business process (procedure) defines the
"process scope", the "process owner", the "inputs", "controls",
"resources", the "outputs" and the "effectiveness".

A new organizational chart is also required
as no one really knows "who" is responsible for "what".

I guess my biggest problem is that when I read in the standard (yes,
I do have it) I do not know how to actually "do" things.

I am sure, you already figured that I have no background/experience in the Quality Department.
This is c o m p l e t e l y new territory to me. I do not even know what a
"Quality System" precisely is.

Thanks again for your support.

Newcomer

one small advantage to brighten up the task, with a poorly fitted 'canned' system. at least you are emboldened to replace this cumbersome system with good ideas.

As you understand you own system, let that thought inspire you. quality has seen strides in both the nuts and bolts of how to do things AND how improvements can make your business be more profitable.

this why do quality, is one of the reasons to stay in (or near) to this profession, and compensation for a lot of work.


Just breath and say 'Even I can do better then this horrible ISO monstrosity!'

I am sure, you already figured that I have no background/experience in the Quality Department.
This is c o m p l e t e l y new territory to me. I do not even know what a
"Quality System" precisely is.

Newcomer

Hello newcomer

We all start somewhere, welcome to the cove which was/is for me the starting point and connection to like minded "Quality" people.

Bulding an effective QA system brings up various issues and shifts in emphasis. One such shift to consider is the term "Quality". Try to think of a Business Management System (BMS) rather than a Quality Management System (QMS). Most old fashioned folks think of Quality as the end result and focus on Defect discovery when they hear the word "Quality Assurance". Even the best inspection as the cornerstone of a "QA" system won't prevent the production of defective goods / services. Again, be open for the words. A service is also an internal process same as we emphasize internal customer/supplier relationships.

The first requirement in implementing a sucessful BMS is a top-down approach. Have a look at your business plan and find out what the business objectives short and longterm are. In the business plan you should find strategies/policies and clear objectives on how to achieve those strategies.

One key ingredient is measurement against objectives. You can not manage what you dont measure. Everyone agrees to work together toward success (Management meeting), setting goals, own those goals and pursue them diligently. This process must be sitting like an anchor an your BMS.

Ensure you have ownership on all levels (start from the top) and effective Management meeting outputs (PDCA - Plan, Do, Check, Act). Always close the loop.

Then you start with the Quality policy, KISS....Keep it simple and stupid and measurable. A policy with no measurements is only a statement of intent.

Define the BMS in a very short manual, don't try to paraphrase the standard. Reference to the standard is enough and then you fit it into your Business Process Map (top level) divided into primary and secondary processes.

You are on the right track with your mapping activities, I guess your current struggle is how does it all fit together so that it is called BMS. Hope the above explanations help you to get a better understanding. Always ask, how do we manage the business (Quality is the result of managing)

Read page 22 of ISO9000:2000. QMS = Management system to direct and control an organisation with regard to quality. Just call it BMS and you will be less confused.

Hope this helps
Garry

[QUOTE=Garry]
...ask...how do we manage the business (Quality is the result of managing) /QUOTE]

Well said, your post sums up everything I have come to believe in the last 15 years of "doing quality"

Amazing how simple it is to explain...and how very difficult it is to accomplish

Caster

Hello Newcomer, you are indeed in good hands.

So, you have volumes of senseless procedures and so on that no one follows. Yet, by some event your company has been registered ISO 9000:2000.

If you really feel like you are starting at the beginning, I would start with the process mapping stage.

There will be several, starting with how contracts are made and then how the work passes through hands of employees. Use paper and pencil, and lots of big pink erasers, or whatever else you feel comfortable with to make the rough sketches. Use flowcharting if you are comfortable working with visual displays.

Identify with numbers each point where goodness of product or task is affected or determined. In a table on the drawing, write a line that identifies the numbered stage of work.

To make procedures, each of these processes must be visited, described to you and recorded on paper fpr typing up into procedures. Perhaps you will be the one to do this. Quality checks and activities will need to be recorded too, though they may end up being spun off into quality related procedures. The excellent sources recommended earlier can give more guidance in this.

There may be differences among the folks there, in how is the right way to do things. That means what you write must be reviewed and approved by the managers, who are expected to follow through with what they say is the right thing to do.

The point I am making is creating process maps and procedures that match what you do, rather than try to get people to do something just because the paper says to. You can compare these practices to the ISO 9000:2000 standard, and make your gap analysis for further action.

Of course, people must do the right things. If it's important that certain gloves be used to handle this or that, the procedure should reflect that and the managers held to their promise via the procedure's approval, that things will be done as agreed, consistently. No more of what I call "weathervaning", important process changes must be methodically made and checked up afterward for success.

Along the way, decisions of how fast, how much, how many, etc. are of course required. Procedures don't have to have these details if they change. Workable procedures should be kept friendly and easy to use and maintain or they serve no purpose.

After these have been used for some months, they can be revisited through audits to see if they are being followed.

By all means, attend every training you can access. Book learning is good, but it is best when you have a basis of knowledge to build upon.

Small steps. You are only one person, though you can make teams if you are supported in that. You can't easily change people from thinking and doing what they think is right, so be patient with change.

Take care, and visit again! We want to see you succeed.