How can you view your own karma,,, can you tell who leaves it?
I tried under the user CP, but couldn't find it.

Thanks!!

(byw, I tried a search, still couldn't find anything useful,)

How can you view your own karma,,, can you tell who leaves it?
I tried under the user CP, but couldn't find it.You did look in the right place, and yes, you can see who awarded it, and why (provided the awarder gave a reason, which is something I strongly advice everyone to do. If you do something good, it's nice to know what it was, right?).

Have another look under user CP, and let me know if you find it, ok?

/Claes

I found it!
:thanx:

What a way to make my Monday Morning!
(and the day before our 2nd TS surveillence audit)

Thanks again!

For a bit more detail - In every post someone makes, up in the right corner there is a small group of symbols. First is the post number. Then you will see this symbol http://Elsmar.com/Forums/images/buttons/reputation.gif. Following that you will see a little computer - This is only for mods and admins - It alows us to see the IP of the poster at the time the post was made.

Anyway, this is where the 'Add To Karma' button is located (and remember, the top of EVERY post has one):

http://Elsmar.com/png/Karma.png

When you press that button, this popup will appear:

http://Elsmar.com/png/Karma popup.png

You MUST give a reason. People very much like to know why someone gives them Karma.

After you click the Add to Karma button in the Karma popup, the popup window will auto-magically close and you will be back in the thread you were reading.

NOTE: Very, very seldom does someone give negative Karma. I don't recommend it as it's really not necessary here - I am looking at disabling it, actually. NOTE: 2005-04-25 Update: Giving 'Negative' Karma has been turned off for quite a while now so registered users no longer have that option. I did this because I don't see any need for it.

Now - If you really, really want to read the gory details including fights from the past when this forum was relatively 'wild and wooly' and all the other gory details, this is the definitive thread to read: Karma (Reputation), Chat Rooms and Some Other Contentious Chat (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6531)

ALSO See: Karma - How do I get karma? How does Karma work? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=12411)

A Summary

First the easy one, putting 0 for any of the factors, will effectively disable that factor from having any effect on reputation power (how much a user gives and takes).

As for the dots, there is no chart for this since normally a user isn't supposed to actually know what a series of dots translates to in numeric terms. Just that bright green dots are better than dark green dots and the more dots you have, the higher the reputation. Having any bright dots at all means you have a higher reputation than someone who only has dark green dots.

The maximum number of dots you will see is 11 (in the current system).

Karma - aka Reputation
http://elsmar.com/png/Karma Points 1.png

Once you hit 500, you will start gaining bright green dots on top of the 5 dark dots but it takes twice as much to gain a bright green dot.
http://elsmar.com/png/Karma Points 2.png

To see who gave you Karma, go to your User Control Panel (usually referred to as your UserCP) (http://elsmar.com/Forums/usercp.php)

You may have to scroll down a bit. You should see somethng like this:

http://Elsmar.com/png/UserCP.png

Hope this helps!

I am curious - What does the "thank you" box say? Once we have selected a post to receive karma, we have an option to add a comment. Once adding the comment, a box flashes us which has the words [I think], "thank you ..."

The box flashes off too fast for me to read what it says. Is the text posted anywhere?

It's a 'transition' box with no timer - So it loads and moves on to the next screen very fast because that and the next part of the php script are not cpu intensive and don't require significant database calls. It says:

"Thanks for adding Karma to this user! May you be lucky enough to receive the same Karma back in turn!"

I guess I was away too long. What is Rep Power? Obviously it is something one should probably have because all the big guns have it. I know there is no corresponding Dem Power because Marc would surely have some of those. Thanks in advance for the briefing.

Dave

I guess I was away too long. What is Rep Power? Obviously it is something one should probably have because all the big guns have it. I know there is no corresponding Dem Power because Marc would surely have some of those. Thanks in advance for the briefing.

Dave
As near as I can estimate from a cursory look at the VBulletin forums, rep power is "reputation" = accrued by a combination of karma, position (member, moderator, administrator), number of posts, longevity since registration. It represents the point value a person gives to another when he grants "karma" - thus Marc gives 245 points to anyone he gives positive karma and I give less than half that number.

I'm interested in the plateau points for getting green buttons with karma. Marc and I have been wallowing with 11 buttons for about a year. Nowhere have I been able to find that fact (how many points per button) in the vBulletin Forums.

Added in edit: I'm pretty sure the progression is "geometric" rather than "arithmetic."

I know there is no corresponding Dem Power because Marc would surely have some of those. Thanks in advance for the briefing.

Dave

ROTFLMSAO...I just can't stop laughing.....

ROTFLMSAO...I just can't stop laughing.....
I know - that was a good one!:lol:

I think Wes is right. I haven't looked at that in a while. I forgot all about the 'Rep Power' thing.

The post 'header' was modified in the old templates. I'll look at 'tailoring' it again this week.

I'm interested in the plateau points for getting green buttons with karma. Marc and I have been wallowing with 11 buttons for about a year. Nowhere have I been able to find that fact (how many points per button) in the vBulletin Forums. There's a picture in a thread somewhere. But, here it is as an attachment.

Bottom line is you've exceeded the maximum. There are no more dots.

It represents the point value a person gives to another when he grants "karma" Correct
I'm interested in the plateau points for getting green buttons with karma. Marc and I have been wallowing with 11 buttons for about a year. Both of you have reached and passed that plateau. It's in the admin settings.

/Claes

I guess I will count my blessings as I should be at minus ten according to Marc's attachment!:o

Marc,
It's possible I'm loopy on quality medicine but I just noticed the "Rep Power" number near the karma bar on posts. What have I missed? I did a search (and found some interesting articles) but I did not come up with any explanations of this new feature. Please ease my tortured mind.
Thanks,
Icy Mt.

I brought this thread out of the moderator's forum - It really is an aspect everyone is interested in.

To recount, the top of a post is a template called a 'postbit'. It was 'tailored' before and 'Rep Power' (Reputation Power) was not part of it. What you're seeing is the 'stock' postbit.

For more background on Karma and Reputation Power, see these threads:
Karma - How do I get karma? How does Karma work? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=12411)
and
Karma - How to Give Karma and How to See Who Gave You Karma (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9934)

Also see this thread: Karma - How do I get karma? How does Karma work? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=12411)

Sir,
I am new here.I checked userCP but not find who gave me karma and why.Can you help?
Thanks
Pankaj :confused:

You don't see any because no one has given you any yet. If you participate and help others, usually sooner or later someone will give you Karma (or Thanks).

Right Sir,but in my posts karma power is showing 1,so I am confused.

Pankaj :confused:Karma power is not the same as karma. Karma power is the amount of karma you give when you give karma to someone else while karma is what you receive. As your karma increases so does your karma power , but at a different rate. I believe we cannot give karma other than when you thank some one using the thanks button in the post. When you do this they will receive 5 karma points.

Thanks Al. But now I'm confused. If everyone gets the same Karma, where does the Karma power become applicable?

Thanks Al. But now I'm confused. If everyone gets the same Karma, where does the Karma power become applicable?

What about me sir?My confusion is continual,improving with every post!!:confused::read::bonk:

Everyone who registers starts out with 10 Karma points and a Karma Power of 1. As you give and get Karma your Karma Power will increase.

vBulletin software Karma (Reputation) Power - See What's Up with Rep (Reputation - aka Karma) Power? (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=13667).

I have also noticed when I try to apply Karma, it states "you must spread Karma around before you can add more Karma to a particular person" (paraphrasing)You will see this when you give Karma to more than 10 6 (as of 080728) people (I'll have to check settings) in 1 day. That limit was set years ago (way before Thanks was added) because a few people were giving the same people Karma many times every day. So, only a few people got Karma.

These settings can be changed. Times have changed. I admit to being like a lot of people. I tend to do the 'Thanks' button. But, I do try to give some people Karma from time to time.

In reply to: "...can you really tell me that there are not 10 different people you would/could give karma to in a day?"

Yes I could, if they deserve it. I just don't hand out "Thanks" to any post/poster, but that is me.

The reasoning was, as I said, to encourage people to to give karma to more than a small group of people which was what was happening at the time. The oldest Karma thread I see is from July 2003. That's almost 5 years ago.

This has been discussed so much I'm getting dizzy... All the main Karma Discussion Threads (http://Elsmar.com/Forums/search.php?do=process&titleonly=1&query=karma)

The 'Thanks' button doesn't have that limitation, however when the Karma 'spread around' value was low only a few people were getting Karma. So, time passed and I installed the 'Thanks' mod. The reasoning was it had a big, highly visible button so people would notice it and use it. And the 'numbering' system was (is) simple. One 'Thanks' = 1 'point'.

The Karma system (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9934) is a mathematical calculation nightmare, if you remember. Not only that, there are the 'threshhold' settings for how many little boxes, and what shades, will show in a person's post and Profile.

Now - All this said, I really don't watch the numbers, neither Thanks nor Karma. Oh, I may glance at peoples numbers now and again, and even mine from time to time, but I'm not really focused on them. I'd have to look to see what my numbers are right now, which is how much them mean to me personally. I know a long time ago (in a land far, far away???) there was a lot of discussion about Karma long before I installed the Thanks mod. Since the Thanks mod has been installed no one has brought up whether it is 'being abused' by a small group of people continually giving 'Thanks' to the same small group. I have no idea if it's a problem, but I assume it's not.

It may be that changing the settings for Karma is a good idea. Feedback, folks?

NOTE 1: Everyone who Registers starts out with 10 Karma points.

NOTE 2: Any Registered Visitor can give Thanks. I would have to (and easily can) change Karma so any registered visitor (even one with no posts) can give Karma 'that counts' just like in the Thanks system.

Current Karma Settings:
NOTE: Reputation User Spread now set to 6 (last setting above).

http://elsmar.com/png/Karma Points Settings 080728.png

The points given is EXACTLY the "karma power" listed in the upper right corner of a person's post (if he desires to allow viewing of his karma.)
Karma power is a function of actual karma, longevity on the Cove, user level [admin, super mod, mod, regular user], number of posts.

Thus, Brad give 125, Coury gives 91, and Marc gives 416, and I give 301.

I don't know that I ever READ this somewhere, merely deduced from the apparent facts when Marc and I had the same number of "karma" at one point, but his karma power was about 100 more than mine (hence the deduction vis a vis member level, longevity, member status.)

I tested out the relationship between "power" and the quantity added to someone's karma each time I gave karma and the point increase of karma totaled EXACTLY my karma power at the time.

Wes, I appreciate your simplifying this for me. I didn't see it as that simple. "karma power" kept throwing me.

To be 'fair', I (we?) should(?) reduce the points we 'old timers' give when we give Karma or something. I gave a relative new comer Karma the other day and saw the 'green dots' go WAY up. I didn't go into the record though to see how many points the person had and if anyone else had given Karma. In short, I'd like to reduce the Karma points some of us give to keep things a *bit* more in line with what a person would get who hasn't been hanging around for 5+ years, and has 1000+ posts, etc.

Your thoughts?

A Summary

First the easy one, putting 0 for any of the factors, will effectively disable that factor from having any effect on reputation power (how much a user gives and takes).

As for the dots, there is no chart for this since normally a user isn't supposed to actually know what a series of dots translates to in numeric terms. Just that bright green dots are better than dark green dots and the more dots you have, the higher the reputation. Having any bright dots at all means you have a higher reputation than someone who only has dark green dots. Same thing with the red dots, just in reverse.

The maximum number of dots you will see is 11 (in the current system).

Karma - aka Reputation
http://elsmar.com/png/Karma Points 1.png

Once you hit 500, you will start gaining bright green dots on top of the 5 dark dots but it takes twice as much to gain a bright green dot.
http://elsmar.com/png/Karma Points 2.png

You will see this when you give Karma to more than 10 people (I'll have to check settings) in 1 day. That limit was set years ago (way before Thanks was added) because a few people were giving the same people Karma many times every day. So, only a few people got Karma.

Like most, I do not use this feature often. The last time when I wanted to give karma for a good post, the same message appeared. Apparently, I had given karma to the same poster a while back (but not to others after that) - so I don't think the above is the only limitation.

Like most, I do not use this feature often. The last time when I wanted to give karma for a good post, the same message appeared. Apparently, I had given karma to the same poster a while back (but not to others after that) - so I don't think the above is the only limitation. The Karma spread was reduced to 6 people within the last 4 weeks.

I am curious - What does the "thank you" box say? Once we have selected a post to receive karma, we have an option to add a comment. Once adding the comment, a box flashes us which has the words [I think], "thank you ..."

The box flashes off too fast for me to read what it says. Is the text posted anywhere? The text of what you posted will be seen by the person you gave Karma to in their UserCP (aka User Control Panel). The software has changed over time. You should see this notification box after you click OK to give someone Karma:

http://elsmar.com/png/Karma Points Notice Message.png

The 'Notice Box' does not go away in this software revision until you click the OK button or use the 'Enter' key.

this post has helped to realize such a systems exists ! thanks and will definetly use it for my future posts....

I'm posting this because of a number of complaints.

A while back the super moderators discussed Karma and Thanks (actually there are several threads in the Super Moderators forum on the subject). At one time they were linked - If someone Thanked you, you got 5 Karma points (number of points is a variable setting). OTOH, Giving Karma did not affect the number of 'Thanks'. The decision to decouple them was made by majority.

As most of you should know from the 'Notice' I'm in Fulton, NY this week. I'm real busy so I don't have time to go into details right now. I'll try to this weekend if one or more of the moderators doesn't jump in and explain. Unfortunately I think all the discussions were in threads in the super moderator's forum.

If you want it changed back, you better speak up now so a consensus can be reached.

Oops - Gotta go. People are coming back from a break...

If I may, can we continue this here:

The 'Thanks' button and the 'Karma' (aka Reputation) Systems (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=25427)

Added: Marc's post was copied to that thread for consistency

If I missed notice of this, I apologize and can only offer the excuse of advanced age and encroaching decrepitude.

What is the significance of the gold badges which appear for some posters along with their green karma dots?

I notice Randy and I have two gold badges, Sidney has three, while Marc has one. I suspect there is a correlation, since Sidney has a lot higher karma count, but what is the formula?

If I missed notice of this, I apologize and can only offer the excuse of advanced age and encroaching decrepitude.

What is the significance of the gold badges which appear for some posters along with their green karma dots?

I notice Randy and I have two gold badges, Sidney has three, while Marc has one. I suspect there is a correlation, since Sidney has a lot higher karma count, but what is the formula?

Here you go, Wes.
New 'Karma' (aka Reputation) Indicators (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=28955)

Here you go, Wes.
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=28955OK - that explains the existence of the gold stars, but it doesn't explain the correlation. Marc has more gold (yellow?) dots, but fewer stars than I. Ajit has more gold (yellow?) dots than I, with only about 1/3 the pure karma count, but zero stars [as of this writing.]

OK - that explains the existence of the gold stars, but it doesn't explain the correlation. Marc has more gold (yellow?) dots, but fewer stars than I. Ajit has more gold (yellow?) dots than I, with only about 1/3 the pure karma count, but zero stars [as of this writing.]

I think there is some post that will take you to V-Bulletin which will explain the correlation.

OK - that explains the existence of the gold stars, but it doesn't explain the correlation. Marc has more gold (yellow?) dots, but fewer stars than I. Ajit has more gold (yellow?) dots than I, with only about 1/3 the pure karma count, but zero stars [as of this writing.]

Click on Marc's link in this post (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?p=263107#poststop) for the explanation. Basically, if I understand it correctly, when the "dots" reach a certain limit, they result in a bronze star. The darts start over at that point, and when they reach the limit again, you get another bronze star. Five bronzes stars results in a silver star, and five silvers results in a gold. I think.

Thanks. I must be getting blind as well as old; I completely missed the fact that was a link - I thought it was referring to Marc's graphic!

So the stars so far are BRONZE, not gold. I may not live long enough to earn a gold one.:(

If I may, can we continue this here:

The 'Thanks' button and the 'Karma' (aka Reputation) Systems (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=25427)

Added: Marc's post was copied to that thread for consistencyThanks, Brad! I appreciate it very much!

I may not live long enough to earn a gold one.:( I still have to 'tweak' the mod's settings. You may end up with a gold before you join the ancestors.

I still have to 'tweak' the mod's settings. You may end up with a gold before you join the ancestors.There is discussion among my descendants whether I will join the ancestors or be separated from them by a wide gulf.:mg:

Also see: The 'Thanks' button and the 'Karma' (aka Reputation) Systems (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=25427)

I noticed that if I give a Thanks (using the Thanks Button) to someone, and try to give Karma (Karma button) it won't let me. However, if I give Karma first, I can still Thank someone, using the Thanks Button.

Is this just something that affects me?

I noticed that if I give a Thanks (using the Thanks Button) to someone, and try to give Karma (Karma button) it won't let me. However, if I give Karma first, I can still Thank someone, using the Thanks Button.

Is this just something that affects me?No. The Thanks invokes Karma and adds to the Karma count, but Karma doesn't invoke the Thanks mod so giving Karma does not add to the Thanks count. Giving Karma once, even by the Thanks button, locks you out from giving Karma multiple times on the same post.

I do have a question.... Is it really your intention to give both Thanks AND Karma? Isn't one or the other enough?

I do have a question.... Is it really your intention to give both Thanks AND Karma? Isn't one or the other enough?

It is not my intent. Yes one or the other is sufficient.

Just curious. It got me to wondering how the two systems are being used.

Just curious. It got me to wondering how the two systems are being used.

It gets back to: One is private and personal and the other one is a public acknowledgment.

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but... if you thank someone, you cannot also give them Karma. Is that correct? Do they receive karma points from the thanks?

I have had a few cases where i wish to give karma to someone but cant as they have been thanked (so er-go i assumed they were getting karma from the thanks).

Also is there anyway to give karma to people for things they have provided to the forum e.g. attachments? I saw a really good chart (outside of a thread) which is helping progress my internal auditing, and wanted to say thanks. All i could find was sending a PM to them full of gratitude.

:bigwave:

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but... if you thank someone, you cannot also give them Karma. Is that correct? Do they receive karma points from the thanks?

I have had a few cases where i wish to give karma to someone but cant as they have been thanked (so er-go i assumed they were getting karma from the thanks).

Also is there anyway to give karma to people for things they have provided to the forum e.g. attachments? I saw a really good chart (outside of a thread) which is helping progress my internal auditing, and wanted to say thanks. All i could find was sending a PM to them full of gratitude.

:bigwave:

Peter,

If you use the Karma Button first, it will allow you. If you give Thanks you are not able to give Karma, because the Thanks Button adds Karma to the poster.

Cool, i thought i was possibly going mad as it kept telling me i can't give karma twice. I started to question replacing milk with vodka in my cereal every morning. Phew glad thats off my mind :D

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but... if you thank someone, you cannot also give them Karma. Is that correct? Do they receive karma points from the thanks?

I have had a few cases where i wish to give karma to someone but cant as they have been thanked (so er-go i assumed they were getting karma from the thanks).

Also is there anyway to give karma to people for things they have provided to the forum e.g. attachments? I saw a really good chart (outside of a thread) which is helping progress my internal auditing, and wanted to say thanks. All i could find was sending a PM to them full of gratitude.

:bigwave:If you are really interested in giving karma for the specific act of adding an attachment which you found outside the thread where it was placed, you could try the Advanced Search, using the poster's screen name and the topic keyword to see if the particular post with the attachment comes up.

Otherwise, you can just check ANY post by that person and add Karma, explaining in the dialog box it was for "the attachment on ____"

I hope you have a long and successful career of adding karma - it's about the only reward we have for folks who are altruistic enough to provide advice and attachments we find useful.

I have formed over the last 2 decades, a drive to be apreciated by all. I realised that people's pats on the back, compliments, job offers etc that have come from me working hard, have given me a million times more job satisfaction then salary (not to say I dont love getting paid), and make me work harder.

With that in mind i try wherever and whenever possible to pass some of that appreciation on...when deserved. It doesnt take much to say thanks, and from my experience this has made the office environment more dynamic.

That was an issue I had when i joined the Cove. Thanking everyone for taking time to answer my questions etc :thanks::thanx:.

I'm managing to scale it back now to the real diamond bits of information. :D

I just recognized the following:
When you are in the list "Post attachments list" (http://elsmar.com/Forums/fileslist.php),
There is a link to the original thread (View parent thread) where the attachment was placed. At the far right is the screen name of the poster. The link only brings you to the thread - you still have a little more work to find the exact post.
It looks a little like this: Al Rosen

http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/attach/pdf.gif 17025 Gap Analysis.pdf (http://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5044) (110.7 KB, 579 views)
Posted in ISO 17025 - Calibration and Test Laboratories, Measurement and Gages (View parent thread (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=16345))

harry

http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/attach/pdf.gif 17025 Gap Analysis.pdf (http://elsmar.com/Forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8301) (110.7 KB, 95 views)
Posted in ISO 17025 - Calibration and Test Laboratories, Measurement and Gages (View parent thread (http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=26230))
If you are really interested in giving karma for the specific act of adding an attachment which you found outside the thread where it was placed, you could try the Advanced Search, using the poster's screen name and the topic keyword to see if the particular post with the attachment comes up.

Otherwise, you can just check ANY post by that person and add Karma, explaining in the dialog box it was for "the attachment on ____"

I hope you have a long and successful career of adding karma - it's about the only reward we have for folks who are altruistic enough to provide advice and attachments we find useful.

There is discussion among my descendants whether I will join the ancestors or be separated from them by a wide gulf.:mg:

The Gulf of Mexico? Why would they bury you down there?:notme: At least you might have a nice view. Plus we can give you Karma even after you stop surfing the cove so don't worry a post humous gold would still be an honor.

Mark

I have had a few cases where i wish to give karma to someone but cant as they have been thanked (so er-go i assumed they were getting karma from the thanks).
If you use the karma button http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/buttons/reputation.gif, they get more karma points though. They get as many points as your Karma Power. If you use the thanks button http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/buttons/post_thanks.gif, they only get two karma points.


Thanks. I must be getting blind as well as old; I completely missed the fact that was a link - I thought it was referring to Marc's graphic!

So the stars so far are BRONZE, not gold. I may not live long enough to earn a gold one.:(

Here you go Wes, I had a few spares in my desk drawer...
http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/reputation/reputation_goldstar.gifhttp://elsmar.com/Forums/images/reputation/reputation_goldstar.gifhttp://elsmar.com/Forums/images/reputation/reputation_goldstar.gifhttp://elsmar.com/Forums/images/reputation/reputation_goldstar.gifhttp://elsmar.com/Forums/images/reputation/reputation_goldstar.gif

While we're at it here are a few of these too, just for good measure:
http://elsmar.com/Forums/images/reputation/reputation_bronzestar.gifhttp://elsmar.com/Forums/images/reputation/reputation_silverstar.gifhttp://elsmar.com/Forums/images/reputation/reputation_green.gifhttp://elsmar.com/Forums/images/reputation/reputation_green.gifhttp://elsmar.com/Forums/images/reputation/reputation_greenh.gifhttp://elsmar.com/Forums/images/reputation/reputation_gold.gif

At the same time, if you give Karma, it does not add to the 'Thanked Post' count.

Note: We 'Unlinked' Karma and Thanks for a while, but the concensus was people wanted to see 'Thanked Posts' listed in their user control panel (http://elsmar.com/Forums/usercp.php) where Karma instances show.

Wow - this thread has been going on since 2004! Its really informative but obviously as new people have entered the Elsmar Cove they have the same question. Perhaps there needs to be an explaination of this which everyone can access - maybe from their User CP? After all, I bet there a lot more people out there who wonder what Karma is all about but haven't managed to come across this thread.

I have been merrily thanking people but have often wanted to do more to a particular answer which has been exceptionally helpful. I will now start adding to people's Karma in those instances.

Typically when someone visits the forum for a while aspects of the software like this start to interest them. We have tried to make things relatively easy to find out about through the FAQ and the special forum this thread is in (Instructions --> How To Use the Forum Software).