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Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?
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Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?
Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?
Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?
Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?
Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?
Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?
Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?
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  Post Number #9  
Old 31st October 2010, 10:33 AM
howste's Avatar
howste

 
 
Total Posts: 5,050
Re: Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?

Countless unofficial light versions already exist. They're called self-declaration of conformity. In this scheme, a company gets the full version of the standard, they implement some of the requirements (that they choose), then they claim they are conforming to the requirements of the standard (with no independent verification).
Thank You to howste for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

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  Post Number #10  
Old 31st October 2010, 01:12 PM
George Weiss

 
 
Total Posts: 444
Re: Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?

As I walked the dog this morning a good profiling thought lit up. I can see the sole proprietor of a small business sometimes not wanting to jump to ISO 9000 because he is fine with the way things are without outside review. I am guessing that ISO is a good thing and works within organizations which are operating not for the owner, but for the representatives of the owner, who might want metrics, (or your word), for their jobs and conventional methods to govern their processes. So an ISO 9000 light method as just mentioned is a good current route. I would put such a tag on the quality wall of my small business to get a foot in the door.
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  Post Number #11  
Old 31st October 2010, 09:43 PM
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howste

 
 
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Re: Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?

The problem with the scheme that I mentioned is that they claim conformity to the standard, but they don't actually conform to the whole standard. If they're going to claim conformity, they need to state what they do and don't conform to. The independent certification process helps customers to avoid the confusing, misleading mess.
  Post Number #12  
Old 1st November 2010, 02:58 AM
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JaneB

 
 
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Re: Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by howste View Post

The problem with the scheme that I mentioned is that they claim conformity to the standard, but they don't actually conform to the whole standard.
Exactamundo. Self-awarded claims of conformity aren't worth the paper they're (not) written on. All the ones I've ever come across just drop out any bits that they find too onerous, too difficult, too demanding, too... disciplined? too... you fill in the blanks.

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by howste View Post

If they're going to claim conformity, they need to state what they do and don't conform to. The independent certification process helps customers to avoid the confusing, misleading mess.
Yes, exactly. And yes, I know that the independent certification thing isn't perfect, but it's a heck of a lot better than a self-awarded conformity statement, which is worth zero.
  Post Number #13  
Old 1st November 2010, 09:39 AM
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dv8shane

 
 
Total Posts: 215
Re: Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by howste View Post

The problem with the scheme that I mentioned is that they claim conformity to the standard, but they don't actually conform to the whole standard. If they're going to claim conformity, they need to state what they do and don't conform to. The independent certification process helps customers to avoid the confusing, misleading mess.
Check this link out it is a "CB" http://www.qas-international.com/htd...ependence.html . Apparently they certify to 9001 etc without any accreditation. I find this a joke.
  Post Number #14  
Old 1st November 2010, 11:37 AM
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Paul Simpson

 
 
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Re: Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?

Thanks to Sidney for posting this quote:
Quote:
That consensus had not yet been reached on how best to position a future ISO 9001. A number of options had been put forward, including for a 3 part series of standards, to include a “lighter” version of ISO 9001, a “current level” version of ISO 9001, and a “higher level” version of the standard. Other options included allowing for a wider ranging version of the standard, with more extensive “exclusions” being permitted. There did seem to be a general feeling that a “lighter” version of ISO 9001 was not a favourable option, but that other options should be considered for the incorporation of “higher” level requirements.
It is worth a while looking at where this suggestion has come from. There have been a few moans on the Cove (Never! ) about ISO 9001 over the years. Now some people say that 9k does not do enough in the way of capturing leading edge quality management and that all the time taken in updating 9k from the 2000 to the 2008 edition (for example) was just wasted time as it changed so little.

There are others here who say this focus on 'business issues' like objectives and continuing improvement takes the standard away from the product compliance focus it should have in terms of controlling suppliers. These are typically the people who also baulk at the idea of 'value added' from auditors recording opportunities for improvement.

Now if we agree these two groups exist then they have two fundamentally different needs in terms of direction for development and this is why Nigel has put this idea of two / three versions into the mix.

I hope this helps.
Thank You to Paul Simpson for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #15  
Old 1st November 2010, 12:50 PM
treesei

 
 
Total Posts: 262
Re: Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?

I think we have three issues here:

1) It seems we would like to have some deviation from current 9001, higher and lighter, to satisfy the need of various industries in various situations. I believe people are doing this. From the higher end for example, if a medical device OEM buys a critical part from a 9001 supplier, some additional requirements beyond 9001 may be applied (but not to the extent of 13485 which the supplier does not have and needs not to have. The lighter end will obviously help many small businesses that are expert in their area but have no desire to get 9001 certified.

2) Do we want to make these deviations "official" by revising current 9001 back to a 9000 set? I will say take it or leave it. 9001 is general and needs to remain general whatsoever. From a single 9001 to a triple-set may not solve the problem, and many small companies still will not seek for certification for financial reasons.

3) That some CBs certify companies to 9001 based on incomplete conformance is a bad practice. A triple-set will not solve this problem.
  Post Number #16  
Old 1st November 2010, 09:46 PM
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howste

 
 
Total Posts: 5,050
Re: Future ISO 9001 Variations: "Lighter" and "Higher Level" Versions?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by dv8shane View Post

Check this link out it is a "CB" http://www.qas-international.com/htd...ependence.html . Apparently they certify to 9001 etc without any accreditation. I find this a joke.
Yup, we've discussed them a few times before. Here's one example: https://elsmar.com/Forums/registrars-certification-bodies-and-registration/11115-registrar-qas-quality-assurance-systems-uk.html
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