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Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?
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Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?
Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?
Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?
Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?
Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?
Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?
Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?
Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?
Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs Fail?
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  Post Number #25  
Old 1st June 2011, 01:26 AM
JaneB's Avatar
JaneB

 
 
Total Posts: 3,518
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Pancho View Post

A couple of bad anecdotes will sway many a newbie business manager to think ISO is a bunch of paperwork with no benefits.
Yes, true, unfortunately. There were, have been and unfortunately still are, some incredibly awful mis-implementations of and failed attempts at ISO 9001. And there are still a heap of misbeliefs and mistakes in understanding it and implementing it well.

The quality field, I think, must take its share of the blame attached to this, and the consequences also. In that, I include in no particular order
  • poor auditors, of the Kwality Kop do it my way or else
  • certifiers who hand out the certificates but never explain or urge how much better a certified system could and should be
  • ignorant 'quality manager/quality engineers' etc who don't really understand the Standard and go down the route of 'strictly by the clauses' and never bother to find out if there's another way to do it
  • the so-called 'consultants' (of the "just sign here, sir, and I will impose upon you a whole heap of useless and content-poor Kwality Documents and insist that you must do it that way")
  • anyone who won't or doesn't interpret quality to management and vice versa, who won't or can't speak the language of business and/or insists that quality is somehow apart from all that, pure and must never be sullied by the normal business of profit-making/financials.

It takes a heck of a lot of time to turn around bad opinions and bad implementations. And 'ISO 9001' didn't acquire the poor reputation that gives rise to such opinions for nothing.

It's much easier to start with a clean slate than it is to have to overcome all those negative consequences.
Thank You to JaneB for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

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  Post Number #26  
Old 1st June 2011, 01:27 AM
JaneB's Avatar
JaneB

 
 
Total Posts: 3,518
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

“E la nave va”, says an Italian proverb, meaning that a big ship can keep sailing without anyone at the helm.
Until it runs aground.
  Post Number #27  
Old 1st June 2011, 06:10 AM
Helmut Jilling

 
 
Total Posts: 4,371
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

A lot of great commentary so far... I'd like to add a couple thoughts:

1. I feel and teach that ISO 9001 began life as strictly a Quality Management System but has evolved into more of a business system, and not just a quality standard. That goes against the strong statement that Sidney made that it is a Quality Standard. But there is room to broaden the view.

* If you read the various thoughtful comments from the other posters, it is clear many of you take ISO 9001 beyond the basic fundamentals of the Quality Dept., and basic product quality.

* When I read customer complaints during audits, many of the complaints are not about product failures. They address other aspects of the business interactions with customers, or customer perception of supplier performance to expectations.

* By way of example, we recently bought a house in Charlotte. The mortgage company (the "supplier") caused us (the "customer") a lot of difficulty and extra, unnecessary time and hassle in getting through the financing process. But, I'm pretty sure they believe it was a successful transaction, because it resulted in the desired outcome. I doubt that they realize how much disatisfaction they caused and how it will impact future business from me, acquaintenances or my realtor. The quality of their product - the mortgage - was successful. The quality of the business relationship was terrible. None of us have any interest in doing any more bsuiness with that supplier.

Quality of the product is no longer enough. Customers expect more from suppliers, good product is a baseline expectation. Fortunately, the benefits of ISO 9001 can transcend product quality and impact "business" quality. It augers for a "business system" approach if a company is progressive.

2. As some have mentioned, ISO 9004 is a great document. The contents go beyond basic quality principles, and bring lots of good content related to business system management. The introduction states that 9004 was written for companies that want to go beyond the [basic] requirements of ISO 9001 in pursuit of "continual improvement." Shouldn't that include most companies, considering top managment commitment to "continual improvement" is a requirement of the quality policy?

I think 9004 supports a business system approach. At a minimum, it does not restict that application.

(I don't understand why ISO itself does so little to promote it. Most certified companies should own a copy, and few actually do.) It would make the whole ISO 9001 program more effective.

3. The eight quality management principles in ISO 9000 are mostly business system oriented principles. They go beyond product quality.

4. Lastly, I think the tendency to look at ISO 9001 as only a quality management system contributes to top management shunting it off to the Quality Manager, and contributes to poor implementations. Companies that embrace ISO 9001 as a foundation for their internal Business Management System have pretty good buy-in from top management, and a good implementation. I strongly promote that view, with good outcomes among my clients. ISO 9001 is written to a basic requirements level, but states that it is inteded as a foundation for a company's system.

Last edited by Helmut Jilling; 1st June 2011 at 06:18 AM.
Thank You to Helmut Jilling for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #28  
Old 1st June 2011, 12:14 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 9,315
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Helmut Jilling View Post

That goes against the strong statement that Sidney made that it is a Quality Standard.
Have you read the title of ISO 9001? Last time I checked, it read
Quote:
Quality management systems — Requirements
While you are at it, read sections 0.4 and 0.2 as well
Quote:
This International Standard promotes the adoption of a process approach when developing, implementing and improving the effectiveness of a quality management system, to enhance customer satisfaction by meeting customer requirements.
At the risk of repeating myself too many times, the problem resides with the fact that ISO 9001 should be implemented in a way of managing the business for Quality, but, in the real world it ends up being implemented as procedures for controlling quality.
  Post Number #29  
Old 1st June 2011, 01:16 PM
Helmut Jilling

 
 
Total Posts: 4,371
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

Have you read the title of ISO 9001? Last time I checked, it read While you are at it, read sections 0.4 and 0.2 as well

At the risk of repeating myself too many times, the problem resides with the fact that ISO 9001 should be implemented in a way of managing the business for Quality, but, in the real world it ends up being implemented as procedures for controlling quality.
Yup...have read those many times. As you know, we are both well aware of the words in the standard.

I was making the case that many companies have evolved their use of the standard to a higher degree than the base requirements. And, that companies who take it further, generally have good implementations, not poor ones. And, they generally have top management buy-in, not poor managment buy-in.

So, since the thrust of your post was "why do so many companieas have poor implementations," my point would be when companies take it a bit further, maybe they have less implementation problems.... If it works, is it not worth considering?

It does no harm to the standard, as evidenced by the fact that 9004 and the Eight Quality Management principles go in that direction as well. Maybe, ISO does not intend quite as hard a line as you are suggesting?

Not every company is ready to go to the next level, but you can't argue with success...
Thanks to Helmut Jilling for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #30  
Old 1st June 2011, 01:49 PM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne

 
 
Total Posts: 14,197
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Helmut Jilling View Post

<snip>Not every company is ready to go to the next level, but you can't argue with success...
There were companies that were "ready to go to the next level" and went there long before ISO 9001 or BS5750 or Mil-Q-9858 were heard of. This is because their top management knew where they wanted to go and how to get there. Many of those companies are either shadows of their former selves or nonexistent today because their management at some point opted to pursue short-term gains, throw R&D under the bus and forget about where the success came from.


Let's look at the early promise of ISO 9001:
  1. Will result in access to international markets, especially Europe.
  2. Will result in reduction or elimination of 2nd party audits
  3. Will result in greater customer satisfaction
  4. Will result in higher levels of product quality
What happened, mainly, is that CBs, ABs and consultants made a lot of money. It reminds me of the old joke about a guy who happens into a country general store and sees 100-pound sacks of salt stacked everywhere. He says to the old man behind the counter, "Gee, you must sell a lot of salt here." "Nope," replies the old man, "but there's a salt salesman who comes around here, and he does pretty good with it."
  Post Number #31  
Old 1st June 2011, 01:55 PM
Helmut Jilling

 
 
Total Posts: 4,371
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne View Post

There were companies that were "ready to go to the next level" and went there long before ISO 9001 or BS5750 or Mil-Q-9858 were heard of. This is because their top management knew where they wanted to go and how to get there. Many of those companies are either shadows of their former selves or nonexistent today because their management at some point opted to pursue short-term gains, throw R&D under the bus and forget about where the success came from.



Let's look at the early promise of ISO 9001:
  1. Will result in access to international markets, especially Europe.
  2. Will result in reduction or elimination of 2nd party audits
  3. Will result in greater customer satisfaction
  4. Will result in higher levels of product quality
What happened, mainly, is that CBs, ABs and consultants made a lot of money. It reminds me of the old joke about a guy who happens into a country general store and sees 100-pound sacks of salt stacked everywhere. He says to the old man behind the counter, "Gee, you must sell a lot of salt here." "Nope," replies the old man, "but there's a salt salesman who comes around here, and he does pretty good with it."
well, Jim...I would not strike thru any of the 4 numbered items....I think they ahppened a lot, especiall in the earlier years.

But, I do agree with you there were many good companies before ISO, and there were probably good companies before Juran, Deming, etc...and will continue to be good companies in the future. ISO is a package of tools...nothing more, nothing less. It's all in how you use it.
  Post Number #32  
Old 1st June 2011, 01:58 PM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne

 
 
Total Posts: 14,197
Re: Why do many ISO 9001 implementation programs fail?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Helmut Jilling View Post

well, Jim...I would not strike thru any of the 4 numbered items....I think they ahppened a lot, especiall in the earlier years.

But, I do agree with you there were many good companies before ISO, and there were probably good companies before Juran, Deming, etc...and will continue to be good companies in the future. ISO is a package of tools...nothing more, nothing less. It's all in how you use it.
My point was (and perhaps I didn't make it clearly) is not just that there were successful companies before ISO 9001, but that there were also lots of unsuccessful ones. The unsuccessful ones were unsuccessful for the same reasons that are now being ascribed to failure to properly implement ISO 9001. ISO 9001 has nothing to do with it, either way.
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