Elsmar Cove Quality DiscussionsThe role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS'sThe Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
UL - Underwriters Laboratories - Health Sciences
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)

Wooden Line

The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's - Page 2


Elsmar XML RSS Feed
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed

Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Sponsor Links




Courtesy Quick Links


Links Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in the quest for knowledge and support:

Jennifer Kirley's
Conway Business Services


Howard's
International Quality Services


Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting, and
Medical Devices Expert Forum


Bob Doering
Bob Doering's Blogs and,
Correct SPC - Precision Machining


Ajit Basrur
Claritas Consulting, LLC



International Standards Bodies - World Wide Standards Bodies

ASQ - American Society for Quality

International Organization for Standardization - ISO Standards and Information

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology


Some Related Topic Tags
annex sl
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  Post Number #9  
Old 22nd December 2017, 12:24 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 9,074
Re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

Marcelo, I agree. In fairness, ISO 9001 states that it is not it's intent to imply the need for uniformity in the structure of different quality management systems.

But to your point, that's why, in my mind, a quality system HAS TO BE embedded seamlessly and invisibly in the organization's business/operational processes, in order to be value added and sustainable. A quality system MUST BE as unique, tailored and bespoke to an organization, as it's way of running the business. Until organizations have that epiphany, they will be running the fool's errand of chasing a standard-aligned quality system.

The TC 176 (and many others) fail miserably in driving this critical message. Paragraph 5.1.1.c) in ISO 9001:2015 is a timid start, but, are conformity assessment practitioners assessing compliance with it?

Last edited by Sidney Vianna; 22nd December 2017 at 01:01 PM. Reason: added a few words
Thanks to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

Sponsored Links
  Post Number #10  
Old 24th December 2017, 12:15 PM
Minko57

 
 
Total Posts: 7
Re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

I was make to understand that there will be a NEW high level structure as follows :-

(a) Leadership
(b) Stakeholder management & accountability
(c) Risk Management
(d) Compliance Management
(e) Process Management
(f) Improvement and Innovation
(g) Support and (human) resources.
Sponsored Links

  Post Number #11  
Old 24th December 2017, 01:26 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 9,074
Re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

Any source for the rumor?
  Post Number #12  
Old 25th December 2017, 02:54 AM
Minko57

 
 
Total Posts: 7
Re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

It was presented by Mr Dick Hortensius of NEN on May 22, 2017 (Monday) at the ISO/TC 309 Plenary Meeting in Quebec, Canada.
  Post Number #13  
Old 25th December 2017, 02:55 AM
Minko57

 
 
Total Posts: 7
Re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

Any source for the rumor?
It was presented by Mr Dick Hortensius of NEN on May 22, 2017 (Monday) at the ISO/TC 309 Plenary Meeting in Quebec, Canada.
Thanks to Minko57 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #14  
Old 26th December 2017, 10:58 AM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 9,074
Re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Minko57 View Post

It was presented by Mr Dick Hortensius of NEN on May 22, 2017 (Monday) at the ISO/TC 309 Plenary Meeting in Quebec, Canada.
Thank you. That being the source, he is, obviously, a very credible one on the subject. He is the author of the article published, back in 2009, which triggered the The Future Structure of ISO Management System Standards thread, already referenced in this thread.

I will email him to see if there is anything on the subject that he can share publicly.
  Post Number #15  
Old 27th December 2017, 12:53 PM
Kronos147

 
 
Total Posts: 268
Re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Marcelo Antunes View Post

In fact, if we would really standardize how most organizations operate their QMS right now, it would be a shame, because most:
- see a QMS as only a bureaucratic nightmare
- only implement things to pass the audit
- usually just really do something days before the audit, as preparation
and things like that.

That would really be the standard way organizations operate in practice
IMHO:
First off, lose QMS and 'Quality' in all discussions and documents. If it's not the "management system", then forget it.

The context of the organization, and the 7 management principles means you just figure out who is responsible for what and let them deal with it. If the process owner is not engaged, and if management does not step in, it doesn't matter anyway. "Quality" isn't someone in the corner office working as the corporate certificate lawyer anymore. It's the cheerleader showing what requirements matter to what, and assessing the process owners implementation of actions to address.
Thanks to Kronos147 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #16  
Old 27th December 2017, 01:13 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 9,074
Re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Minko57 View Post

It was presented by Mr Dick Hortensius of NEN on May 22, 2017 (Monday) at the ISO/TC 309 Plenary Meeting in Quebec, Canada.
Mr. Hortensius replied to my email and clarified this. The revision for the Appendix 2 of Annex SL (HLS) is not underway yet.

The slide below, which was part of the presentation you alluded to may have led you to believe that the HLS was being revised as per your previous post, but, according to the documents that Mr. Hortensius shared with me, that is not the case. The point of the slide was to mention that the HLS elements align well with the management processes. The HLS (left hand box) is the ‘ISO speak’ of management system elements and the right-hand box provides more the language of (top) management in organizations.

Thank You to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >

Bookmarks



Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Emoticons are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
High level structure - Planning and operation control Ettore Occupational Health & Safety Management Standards 2 2nd December 2017 05:33 AM
Is the next revision of ISO 15378 following the High Level Structure? paulag Other ISO and International Standards and European Regulations 5 22nd February 2017 12:20 PM
ISO 13485 and the High Level Structure (HLS) Marcelo Antunes ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 0 26th October 2016 10:20 AM
SAL (Sterility Assurance Level) for High Level Disinfection vs. Sterilization Broccoli US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) 7 29th April 2014 06:29 AM
Structure in ISO 9001 documentation - Level 1, Level 2, Level 3, Level4, etc. gilsg Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 7 14th October 2000 08:44 AM



The time now is 05:31 AM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



Misc. Internal Links


NOTE: This forum uses "Cookies"