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The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
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The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's
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  Post Number #1  
Old 13th December 2017, 05:11 AM
Paul Simpson's Avatar
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Look! The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

I did a search and couldn't find anything specifically talking about the application of Annex SL for Quality management systems standards (MSS). This is another article I wrote for Bywater about how the text of Annex SL is just a start in defining how a quality system operates.

Text is reproduced here to allow comments on selected parts.

If, like me, you’re interested in the topic of management systems you will have: listened in to many conversations; followed many social media threads, and; read many articles in print about the future of management systems standards and, apparently, that future is …

Is this our Dead Sea Scrolls or Rosetta Stone discovery? Is Annex SL ‘our’ equivalent of the Enigma machine to break the code of Quality, Environmental or XXX Management (insert your favourite management system standard discipline here)? From now on automagically will we be able to translate ISO standards into a fully integrated management system our organisation’s leaders will be falling over themselves to support?

With no desire to rain on anyone’s parade I will serve a note of caution: Don’t build this up to be something it is not; at risk of it becoming a damp squib. I’ll get back to what I think are the benefits of Annex SL shortly but, for the purposes of this article want to cover some of the things Annex SL just won’t do. Let’s take one simple example: ‘5.2.1 Establishing the XXX policy’. It goes without saying that all the requirements under the heading have no meaning unless we replace XXX with ‘Quality’ (or any other flavour of policy). If we do this ‘find and replace’ to put the requirement into an ISO 9001 context are we any nearer value? I suggest not. It remains a simple set of discipline-specific requirements for what a quality policy statement shall cover.

We can even do what many organisations and consultants do, and generate a company specific policy that ticks off all the requirements from ISO 9001 (in this case). Apologies to any ‘Joe Bloggs Ltd.’ out there:

At Joe Bloggs Limited, we have established and implemented and will continue to maintain a quality policy appropriate to our organization and to support our strategic direction. We are committed to satisfying applicable requirements. We maintain an annual set of quality objectives and will continually improve our quality management system.

Simples! Our ISO 9001 policy is now in the form of ‘documented information’ and we can now kick on, or can we? IMHO with this Quality policy we are no nearer providing any organisational value and so, while Annex SL has many virtues, it hasn’t solved any problems yet. In order to deliver the intended value of improved Quality that ISO 9001’s policy requirement is aimed at we have to develop a meaningful Policy statement and, to do that, we need to understand the background as to why a policy statement is necessary in the first place.
•Policies can be useful for a variety of reasons – for Quality they provide a means to reinforce a culture of customer focus and improvement.
•The statement, and the fact it is endorsed by the organisation’s leader(s) communicates the importance of quality to internal and external interested parties (e.g. employees and customers).
•The policy statement is intended to inspire employees to direct their efforts towards satisfying customer requirements. For me an effective policy statement needs to be RED (sic). It should:
◦Resonate – so for readers to it should reflect the organisation that has signed up to it
◦Enthuse – nothing bland will do here, readers should be inspired to continue good behaviours and change bad ones.
◦Drive – objectives and targets mentioned in the policy should become the key metrics for employees to address to enable the organisation to satisfy its customers and improve performance


Where Annex SL contributes is through providing common text and structure so ISO Technical Committees aren’t spending all their time trying to find a better way of saying ‘the organisation shall have a XXX policy’. They can spend the majority of standards development time ensuring that all the discipline specific requirements are as good as they can be. So ISO TC 176 can spend its time looking at how good and excellent organisations manage quality and building those practises into the next edition of ISO 9001.

To improve understanding on the purpose of a policy statement there are a number of resources available on the Internet. Perhaps start with the Chartered Management Institute – here. Further detail is provided by Jisc, a service provider for UK Education and Research sectors. While aimed at education providers (and apparently archived) the guidance remains relevant – here.
Thank You to Paul Simpson for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

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  Post Number #2  
Old 19th December 2017, 09:57 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
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re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

I created the thread The Future Structure of ISO Management System Standards back in 2009, with the earliest information on what we know now as High Level Structure.

The decision to create a common framework for all most ISO MSS has to do with the ISO's TMB perception that such common structure would be highly desired by organizations that want to have integrated management systems. So, ISO obliged to the perceived demand.

Sure, the PDCA cycle can be massaged by almost any discipline. But, in my view point, we can improve standards ad nauseum, but until we have high-caliber conformity assessment practices in place, value added standardization of management systems will be a challenge for most practitioners.
Thanks to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #3  
Old 19th December 2017, 11:13 PM
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Thumbs up re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

I like the Annex SL, mostly for the "context of the organization". It gives something to engage management in the use of the QMS, where in the past, the QMS is something forced on them to meet a customer demand. Looking past integration of management systems, I believe it's an inspired improvement to the requirements.
Thank You to AndyN for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #4  
Old 20th December 2017, 07:39 AM
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re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

I created the thread The Future Structure of ISO Management System Standards back in 2009, with the earliest information on what we know now as High Level Structure.
Thanks, Sidney. I remember it at the time, your usual prescience! I'm sure the proliferation of MSS was the driver for this project and, by and large, it seems to have gone well. The JTCG is looking to recruit people to join the working group to review and revise Annex SL as part of the regular review of the ISO Directives, so perhaps we can capture some thoughts here for what should go into 'Son of Annex SL'?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

The decision to create a common framework for all most ISO MSS has to do with the ISO's TMB perception that such common structure would be highly desired by organizations that want to have integrated management systems. So, ISO obliged to the perceived demand.
I'd agree it is one of the perceived benefits that ISO are using to market Annex SL. I feel the main reason (as I put in my article) was to prevent TCs and working groups from expending a lot of time and energy in refining text that is relatively simple and doesn't relate to the core business of the TC - discipline specific requirements.

People who are really interested in 'Integration' have gone ahead and done it long before Annex SL came on the scene. IMHO it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to bring a range of requirements into a management system covering a range of MSSs (not to mention laws, product standards, etc.).

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

Sure, the PDCA cycle can be massaged by almost any discipline. But, in my view point, we can improve standards ad nauseum, but until we have high-caliber conformity assessment practices in place, value added standardization of management systems will be a challenge for most practitioners.
Totally agree with you on this, Sidney. Announced elsewhere but TC 176 is so concerned about the 'Context' of ISO 9001 (see what I did there? ) that it has formed a task group under Dr Nigel Croft to address 'Brand Integrity' issues. I'll happily share a bit more elsewhere. Not sure where the best place to have a thread is, though?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by AndyN View Post

I like the Annex SL, mostly for the "context of the organization". It gives something to engage management in the use of the QMS, where in the past, the QMS is something forced on them to meet a customer demand. Looking past integration of management systems, I believe it's an inspired improvement to the requirements.
Agreed, Andy. I love 'Context' and feel it is the strongest element in Annex SL. It starts to bring ISO 9001 out of the clutches of the Quality Manager who constrains the QMS to just ISO 9001 requirements (ignoring the big, bad world that actually defines how the organization needs to identify customers, their requirements, and what controls are needed to ensured sustained success as a business).

It forces auditors out of their darkened rooms, too. They have to understand context and then test the QMS put forward against these market requirements to ensure it is effective.

We will soon see if the 2015 transition weeds out poor QMs and poor Auditors, though.
Thank You to Paul Simpson for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #5  
Old 21st December 2017, 01:00 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 9,347
Thumbs up re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Paul Simpson View Post

We will soon see if the 2015 transition weeds out poor QMs and poor Auditors, though.
Hope springs eternal.
  Post Number #6  
Old 22nd December 2017, 12:00 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 9,347
Re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

Guidance documents to support the understanding and deployment of Annex SL are available here.
Attached Files: 1. Scan for viruses before opening, 2. Please report any 'bad' files by Reporting this post, 3. Use at your Own Risk.
File Type: pdf ISO-TMB-JTCG_N0359_N0359__JTCG_FAQ_to_support_Annex_SL.pdf (615.8 KB, 39 views)
Thanks to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #7  
Old 22nd December 2017, 12:08 PM
Marcelo Antunes's Avatar
Marcelo Antunes

 
 
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Re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Paul Simpson View Post

This is another article I wrote for Bywater about how the text of Annex SL is just a start in defining how a quality system operates.
I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that ISO does not have any idea how a quality system operates :-P and even if they did, this is something that cannot be standardized as each organization implementing a QMS will have it's own way to operate the QMS (and ISO 9001 and related standards should really be kept to evaluate a QMS, not create or operate one).

Last edited by Marcelo Antunes; 22nd December 2017 at 12:48 PM.
  Post Number #8  
Old 22nd December 2017, 12:12 PM
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Marcelo Antunes

 
 
Total Posts: 3,231
Re: The role of Annex SL - High Level Structure of ISO MSS's

In fact, if we would really standardize how most organizations operate their QMS right now, it would be a shame, because most:
- see a QMS as only a bureaucratic nightmare
- only implement things to pass the audit
- usually just really do something days before the audit, as preparation
and things like that.

That would really be the standard way organizations operate in practice

Last edited by Marcelo Antunes; 22nd December 2017 at 12:34 PM.
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