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Applicability of ISO 9001:2015 Section 8.5 - Engineering company

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  Post Number #1  
Old 8th March 2018, 04:48 PM
ctroll

 
 
Total Posts: 2
Please Help! Applicability of ISO 9001:2015 Section 8.5 - Engineering company

Do the requirements of 8.5 apply in the following scenario...

An engineering company designs industrial process systems, procures components, and has the components drop-shipped to the field construction sites. At this point, the contractors (customers) take possession of the components. The contractors build the systems with the components, drawings, specifications, etc. The engineering company then sends field engineers to start-up the systems and conduct training.

So, the processes (4.4) are: proposal (8.2), design (8.3), procurement (8.4), start-up (8.6). No 8.5?

Any input would be appreciated - Thanks!

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  Post Number #2  
Old 8th March 2018, 07:05 PM
John Broomfield's Avatar
John Broomfield

 
 
Total Posts: 2,660
Yin Yang Re: Applicability of ISO 9001:2015 Section 8.5 - Engineering company

ctroll,

Engineering companies provide a service and produce and deliver design information.

So clause 8.5 definitely applies to them.

Analyze what your company actually does to turn the needs of your clients into cash and you’ll see that most if not all clauses apply.

Start not with the standard but with your organization and how it interacts with customers and suppliers to determine and satisfy customer needs.

You’ll probably find that your company is in the production business as it adds value to data and information to produce ontime, conforming specifications and drawings in various forms as much needed deliverables.

John
Thanks to John Broomfield for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #3  
Old 8th March 2018, 07:52 PM
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Ninja

 
 
Total Posts: 1,089
Re: Applicability of ISO 9001:2015 Section 8.5 - Engineering company

Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be easier for most folks to simply write the procedures saying "We don't really do this but this is the closest we come" rather than to keep fighting the fight of exemptions.

It takes so much to exclude certain points. Wouldn't it just be easier (and accomplish the same thing) to dodge the exclusion fight and just comply in the normal course of business...?
  Post Number #4  
Old 8th March 2018, 08:10 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
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Re: Applicability of ISO 9001:2015 Section 8.5 - Engineering company

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by John Broomfield View Post

Engineering companies provide a service
As John said, 8.5 is about service provision, if you are not a manufacturer. 8.5 can never be deemed non applicable, unless the organization does not have a deliverable, tangible or otherwise; and, without a deliverable, they don't exist.
  Post Number #5  
Old 9th March 2018, 12:02 AM
ctroll

 
 
Total Posts: 2
Re: Applicability of ISO 9001:2015 Section 8.5 - Engineering company

As I was sketching out the processes, I was also thinking about which sections apply to each process and was struggling a bit with the sub-sections of 8.5.

I definitely appreciate the feedback and I understand what you all are saying. It gives me more to think about.

Thanks!
  Post Number #6  
Old 9th March 2018, 01:55 AM
John Broomfield's Avatar
John Broomfield

 
 
Total Posts: 2,660
Yin Yang Re: Applicability of ISO 9001:2015 Section 8.5 - Engineering company

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

As John said, 8.5 is about service provision, if you are not a manufacturer. 8.5 can never be deemed non applicable, unless the organization does not have a deliverable, tangible or otherwise; and, without a deliverable, they don't exist.
Sidney,

In my experience all organizations provide a service and some include products with their service.

This includes those organizations that provide manufacturing services.

Organizations that take their service seriously can differentiate themselves especially in a tough market where price seems to count for everything.

This can seem a bit extreme where organizations are used to excluding their service design processes from certification.

John
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