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ISO 9001:2015 4.4.1 (c) Process Effectiveness - Page 2

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effectiveness, iso 9001:2015, key processes, processes (general)
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  Post Number #9  
Old 19th May 2018, 08:50 PM
dsanabria

 
 
Total Posts: 1,368
Re: ISO 9001:2015 4.4.1 (c) Process Effectiveness

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Shanew View Post

During our transition audit, the auditor sited a minor nonconformance because we did not sufficiently comply with clause 4.4.1 (c).

We do some very large tender submissions, typically to government agencies. We do post mortem reviews but have not established any formal measurements of effectiveness.

As part of our response, we need to provide a list of key processes that we will establish measurements of effectiveness for.

If anyone has experience establishing such measurements for nonstandard manufacturing type processes I would appreciate your thoughts. I have to propose the 10 ten processes to evaluate to Sr. Leadership next week.

Thanks in advance,

Shane
At a minimum - meet the requirements of 9.1.3 Analysis and evaluation

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  Post Number #10  
Old 19th May 2018, 09:53 PM
AndyN's Avatar
AndyN

 
 
Total Posts: 9,118
Question Re: ISO 9001:2015 4.4.1 (c) Process Effectiveness

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Shanew View Post

During our transition audit, the auditor sited a minor nonconformance because we did not sufficiently comply with clause 4.4.1 (c).
What does this mean? "Sufficiently" is an opinion. Please tell us exactly what was reported. I smell an audit rat...
  Post Number #11  
Old 20th May 2018, 10:27 PM
Kronos147

 
 
Total Posts: 310
Re: ISO 9001:2015 4.4.1 (c) Process Effectiveness

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Shanew View Post

As part of our response, we need to provide a list of key processes that we will establish measurements of effectiveness for.
What are your processes? Who are the process owners? What do they shoot for? Is that already one of the organizational objectives?

Does any process take ownership of monitoring customer satisfaction? Surely that is one of the measures. What about On Time Delivery? First Pass Yield? Parts Per Million/defect rates? Percentage to goal against internal programs (Internal Audit, Management Review, Preventive Maintenance, Training)?

Also, when you think about these measurements, remember the S.M.A.R.T. acronym; Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant, and Time-Bound. Evidence-based decision making requires trend analysis.
Thanks to Kronos147 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #12  
Old 9th July 2018, 07:19 PM
stevegyro

 
 
Total Posts: 23
ISO 9001:2015 4.4.1 (c) Process Effectiveness

What Mr. Sidney Vianna says!

Any ‘quality professional’ who has been in the field of ‘manufacturing’ for any amount of time, will probably agree that it is very difficult to believe Sales people, or the “bean counters”.

Oddly enough, the Sales people and bean counters are at the ‘Headmasters’ station steering the ship.
The autonomy they are ‘graced with’ often becomes a pool of red ink, and finger pointing, usually at the wrong departments!

We all understand the salesman’s motto:
“Nothing happens before the Sale” but ...
Until Salesmen/Sales-Engineers are held be accountable by the Quality Team, any of us are doomed to experience that “last minute scramble” to get the goods out the back door.
Quality compromised? Of course!

Sometimes I have wondered if sales people are acting stupid (dumb like a fox) when they fail to understand specifications and contract obligations.
How convenient.

I would call BS on this. This may be a game for them, but people’s livelihoods are in the balance. Make no mistake about this please.

I have seen more than one family business, after forty years or so of success, “go down the tubes” hiring young ‘geniuses’ who do not possess depth of understanding, and mixing these new hires with ‘lifers’ (sales people who know the game too well and have been in the comfort zone too long).

In defense of sales people:
Sometimes Sales will need to promise a little more than the competition.
OK, so be it.
But IMHO if you can share those ‘stretched promises’ with your entire team, and certainly your Quality people, it can avoid last minute surprises.

We all know that last minute surprises lead to customer dissatisfaction, or worse, failures in the field.

Happy sailing!






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Last edited by stevegyro; 9th July 2018 at 07:31 PM.
  Post Number #13  
Old 10th July 2018, 12:00 AM
Golfman25

 
 
Total Posts: 1,459
Re: ISO 9001:2015 4.4.1 (c) Process Effectiveness

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by stevegyro View Post

What Mr. Sidney Vianna says!

Any ‘quality professional’ who has been in the field of ‘manufacturing’ for any amount of time, will probably agree that it is very difficult to believe Sales people, or the “bean counters”.

Oddly enough, the Sales people and bean counters are at the ‘Headmasters’ station steering the ship.
The autonomy they are ‘graced with’ often becomes a pool of red ink, and finger pointing, usually at the wrong departments!

We all understand the salesman’s motto:
“Nothing happens before the Sale” but ...
Until Salesmen/Sales-Engineers are held be accountable by the Quality Team, any of us are doomed to experience that “last minute scramble” to get the goods out the back door.
Quality compromised? Of course!

Sometimes I have wondered if sales people are acting stupid (dumb like a fox) when they fail to understand specifications and contract obligations.
How convenient.

I would call BS on this. This may be a game for them, but people’s livelihoods are in the balance. Make no mistake about this please.

I have seen more than one family business, after forty years or so of success, “go down the tubes” hiring young ‘geniuses’ who do not possess depth of understanding, and mixing these new hires with ‘lifers’ (sales people who know the game too well and have been in the comfort zone too long).

In defense of sales people:
Sometimes Sales will need to promise a little more than the competition.
OK, so be it.
But IMHO if you can share those ‘stretched promises’ with your entire team, and certainly your Quality people, it can avoid last minute surprises.

We all know that last minute surprises lead to customer dissatisfaction, or worse, failures in the field.

Happy sailing!






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The problem is that if it's left to the quality and engineering people, nothing would ever get sold. There is always some issue or ambiguity. Some things you just don't know until you know them. I have seen prints go from relatively simple to impossible due trying to iron out every single detail. Each change makes matters worse and worse. The sales folks should be able to smooth the edges and get the thing moving to the order stage.
  Post Number #14  
Old 10th July 2018, 12:08 PM
John C. Abnet

 
 
Total Posts: 48
Re: ISO 9001:2015 4.4.1 (c) Process Effectiveness

Good day @shanew;
Before we start making changes to the management system, let us first determine if your organization is actually non-conformant (remember, just because the auditor issues a non-conformance finding, does NOT mean the organization is non-conformant).
Can you please state specifically (actual verbiage) what the auditor's non-conformance finding says?
  Post Number #15  
Old 16th July 2018, 08:33 AM
Mike S.

 
 
Total Posts: 2,267
Re: ISO 9001:2015 4.4.1 (c) Process Effectiveness

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Golfman25 View Post

The problem is that if it's left to the quality and engineering people, nothing would ever get sold.
There are bad apples in every single area of human endeavor, no question. But if you think this is typical in a well-run organization, I disagree.

My experience is, working as a team, we can come to an agreement and make money and and still maintain our moral and legal responsibilities. It is usually when some key member of the team is not included in the process from the beginning that things hit snags along the way, and then that missing member is considered the "bad guy" when he/she points out that a requirement is not being met.

For example, the product reaches final inspection and is supposed to ship today. No one had QA review the contract in the beginning, so no one, until now, realized a FAI is required. Oops! That will take 3 days and some disassembly to accomplish. And suddenly it is Quality's fault that the part was delivered late, right?
Thanks to Mike S. for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #16  
Old 30th July 2018, 03:26 AM
Lafir Ali

 
 
Total Posts: 2
Lightbulb Re: ISO 9001:2015 4.4.1 (c) Process Effectiveness

Hi every one,
I have one doubt that, for to fulfill ISO 9001:2015, Clause No.5.3- "Roles, Responsibilities and Authorities", Every organization is having Organization chart and my question is it is need to develop hierarchy organization structure or we can express in any form, eg say: Roles, Responsibility and Authority Matrix covering all clause requirements.

Kindly clarify me

Thanks in Advance
Thanks to Lafir Ali for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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