Can the Third Edition PPAP forms continue to be used after 6/1/06?

[Jan91168]

June 1, 2006 the PPAP Fourth Edition went into effect. Can a registrar issue a noncompliance if the third editions forms (Warrant) are used after this date? We use the Quality Planner software which will be providing a free upgrade but we are housed as 2 seperate companies and the other company designed their own forms which are not to the fourth edition changes. We had a meeting on this recently and a few people feel it should not matter what type of form we supply our customers. We are a third tier supplier.

 

[Jim Wynne]

June 1, 2006 the PPAP Fourth Edition went into effect. Can a registrar issue a noncompliance if the third editions forms (Warrant) are used after this date? We use the Quality Planner software which will be providing a free upgrade but we are housed as 2 seperate companies and the other company designed their own forms which are not to the fourth edition changes. We had a meeting on this recently and a few people feel it should not matter what type of form we supply our customers. We are a third tier supplier.

Whether any document or form may be used is a matter of customer requirements. If your customer(s) expect you to follow the AIAG PPAP process as of June 1 and haven't explicitly waived or extended the June 1 requirement, an auditor would be justified in citing use of obsolete documents after June 1.

 

[Dave Dunn]

I've seen at least one of our customers that specify in their quality manual that submissions be to the "current PPAP edition" or something similar. If the other division has their own forms, it shouldn't take long for them to update them to match the edition 4 PPAP versions.

Better safe than rejected.

 

[Howard Atkins]

As a reminder and forms please see AIAG 4th edition PPAP forms

 

[Ron Rompen]

Although I stand to be corrected, there is no requirement to use the exact format of the AIAG documents; only the CONTENT has to be there.

If your other division has developed their own documentation, they should be able to modify/revise it to meet the current requirement.

We did that previously with the old PPAP document; I wasn't satisfied with either the layout or the content (didn't have IMDS information, for one), so I redesigned it completely. Never had a complaint from a registrar or a customer.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Although I stand to be corrected, there is no requirement to use the exact format of the AIAG documents; only the CONTENT has to be there.

If your other division has developed their own documentation, they should be able to modify/revise it to meet the current requirement.

We did that previously with the old PPAP document; I wasn't satisfied with either the layout or the content (didn't have IMDS information, for one), so I redesigned it completely. Never had a complaint from a registrar or a customer.

I think you're generally correct; it's common practice for suppliers to have their own forms, and the general rule is to provide all of the same information as the AIAG "masters." The PPAP manual allows for use of a "convenient" format for material, performance and dimensional reporting, but I'm not sure the same allowance is given for the warrant form. Nonetheless, so long as the warrant includes all of the same information as the one in the manual, there shouldn't be a problem. If "canned" software is in use, it might not be possible to alter the forms, however.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

I've seen at least one of our customers that specify in their quality manual that submissions be to the "current PPAP edition" or something similar. If the other division has their own forms, it shouldn't take long for them to update them to match the edition 4 PPAP versions.

Better safe than rejected.

I would take "submissions be to the "current PPAP edition" to focus more on the items, not the forms. Unless you customer has a particular form they require, providing the same information in a similar form should be fine.

 

[Barahir]

Doing a quick browse through my PPAP 4th edition manual, the only reference to this subject that I can find shows up in section 4.1 Note 2.

Note 2: All of the forms referenced in this document may be replaced by computer-generated facsimiles. Acceptability of these facsimilies is to be confirmed with the authorized customer representative prior to the first submission.
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Third edition stated:

Note 2: All of the forms reference din this document may be replaced by computer-generated facsimiles. Acceptability of these facsimilies to to be confirmed with the responsible part approval activity prior to the first submission. The Automotive Industry Action Group (AIAG) offers for sale a diskette with the PPAP/APQP/FMEA forms.
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So no real change there so far as meaning; they just took out the advertisement for the forms they sold (at a rather high cost if I remember correctly).

We use our own versions of the forms that were made in-house. Some of them are nearly identical copies of what AIAG manuals show (FMEA being one where we use an identical form), and others (our dimensional test results form) don't look remotely like the AIAG version but convey all the same information. Our PSW is in the same format but isn't 100% identical.

As long as all the information required in the 4th edition is being conveyed and your customer(s) are okay with the format of the form you are using, there should be no issue with current forms not matching the AIAG blue book ones 100%.