Definition Raw Material - AS9100 Definition Of A Raw Material
- Thread starter DAHSR
- Start date
No, there is not.DAHSR said:
K
kiwisfly
There was a thread here a few weeks ago where I asked the forum for examples of how this is being interpreted and audited. I have seen a few different views of how the periodic validation of test reports for raw material is undertaken. I had heard a trainer from an international CRB indicate that a narrow interpretation of raw material makes this clause less onerous than would otherwise be the case. Can't say I agreed with him and encourage you to take a practical approach to the definition of raw material depending on the aerospace component you manufacture. Each company will have different raw materials but the clause (7.4.3) is quite clear:
"Where the organisation utilises test reports to verify purchased products, the data in those reports shall be acceptable per applicable specifications. The organisation shall periodically validate test reports for raw material."
Both sentences in the requirement are related, where test reports are used they need to be periodically validated. By limiting the interpretation of raw material you may escape some of the periodic validation requirement but I do not believe this meets the intent of this clause.
One of the company's I audit select their top suppliers of raw material (mostly metals) and periodically validate a sample of material certificates at a training laboratory thereby minimising the costs, as the tests are done by students in an accredited laboratiory. I hope this helps.
Cheers,
"Where the organisation utilises test reports to verify purchased products, the data in those reports shall be acceptable per applicable specifications. The organisation shall periodically validate test reports for raw material."
Both sentences in the requirement are related, where test reports are used they need to be periodically validated. By limiting the interpretation of raw material you may escape some of the periodic validation requirement but I do not believe this meets the intent of this clause.
One of the company's I audit select their top suppliers of raw material (mostly metals) and periodically validate a sample of material certificates at a training laboratory thereby minimising the costs, as the tests are done by students in an accredited laboratiory. I hope this helps.
Cheers,
The auditor at one of my AS9100 certified clients indicated that based on the requirement in 7.4.3, the company has to list all their raw materials and indicate the frequency of validation.
Is this correct? If it is, why didn't the standard say "all raw materials".
Thanks,
Danny
Is this correct? If it is, why didn't the standard say "all raw materials".
Thanks,
Danny
K
kiwisfly
Hi Dany
The clause is quite clear:
"Where the organisation utilises test reports to verify purchased products, the data in those reports shall be acceptable per applicable specifications. The organisation shall periodically validate test reports for raw material."
So I guess the auditor is right but as I indicated in this thread, there are some interpretations of "raw material" and "periodically" does not specify a minimum period. My advice is to discuss it with your client's major aerospace customers and agree what their definition of raw material and periodic is. Evidence of this should be shown to the auditor as your consideration of the customer related processes under clause 7.2.
I see my role as an auditor matching the requirements of AS9100 with those specified by the customers. In some cases, I have found myself being far stricter than than the customer's auditor and at other times too lenient. It is a balancing act that comes with experience and you may find that your actions to specify the customer's requirements with respect to raw material and periodic inspection will be providing the auditor a bit of added experience with the auditing of your client.
I'm looking forward to reading other responses to your post, particularly from other auditors.
I hope this helps.
Cheers
Chris
The clause is quite clear:
"Where the organisation utilises test reports to verify purchased products, the data in those reports shall be acceptable per applicable specifications. The organisation shall periodically validate test reports for raw material."
So I guess the auditor is right but as I indicated in this thread, there are some interpretations of "raw material" and "periodically" does not specify a minimum period. My advice is to discuss it with your client's major aerospace customers and agree what their definition of raw material and periodic is. Evidence of this should be shown to the auditor as your consideration of the customer related processes under clause 7.2.
I see my role as an auditor matching the requirements of AS9100 with those specified by the customers. In some cases, I have found myself being far stricter than than the customer's auditor and at other times too lenient. It is a balancing act that comes with experience and you may find that your actions to specify the customer's requirements with respect to raw material and periodic inspection will be providing the auditor a bit of added experience with the auditing of your client.
I'm looking forward to reading other responses to your post, particularly from other auditors.
I hope this helps.
Cheers
Chris
N
needbagels
Very interesting topic! I have been auditing and been audited to AS9100 for over six years now and never had an issue with raw materials until recently. One contract auditor this year decided to take it to a level that I am not comfortable with. He looks at raw material as anything that has a test report that can be validated. In other words, Loctite, conformal coat, RTV, roll solder, solder paste, flux, alcohol, etc..
I my opinion this does not make sense as most if not all of these products are third party tested by the manufacture with objective evidence readily available.
Good news is I hear this requirement is being removed from rev (C). I would think instead of removing they could have simply clarified the requirement. I can understand the need in certain circumstances.
I my opinion this does not make sense as most if not all of these products are third party tested by the manufacture with objective evidence readily available.
Good news is I hear this requirement is being removed from rev (C). I would think instead of removing they could have simply clarified the requirement. I can understand the need in certain circumstances.
A
alspread
I distinguish between raw material and 'other' material as material not purchased to a part number or stuff that does not require a first article per AS9102.
AS9102 requires raw material to be listed seperately on the bottom of form 2. Whereas purchased items are listed on form 1 and are subject totheir own first articles as applicable.
Therefore, forgings castings, and other 'processed' raw material is not raw material and (by my definition) not subject to raw material testing requirements on the purchaser.
The requirement should be imposed on the 'processor' of the raw material.
And remember " There is no finish line"
AS9102 requires raw material to be listed seperately on the bottom of form 2. Whereas purchased items are listed on form 1 and are subject totheir own first articles as applicable.
Therefore, forgings castings, and other 'processed' raw material is not raw material and (by my definition) not subject to raw material testing requirements on the purchaser.
The requirement should be imposed on the 'processor' of the raw material.
And remember " There is no finish line"Similar threads
