Mold Making Area Mangement Dis-agreement

I have the Manuls done as I have stated in the past. BUT! at our weekly Quality MTG.
Upper management says the cost of implementing 4.8 (Both T & E & QS) would be to costly to track everything. My position is that the check sheets that our moldmakers are suffiecent. They dis-agree and want to go ahead not including the mold making area. My position is that we would not be approved unless we included moldmaking
We all know that mold making is unique and I am sure the registrars would go along. Please correct me if I am WRONG.

You only have to trace stuff as far as customer requirements or industry standards require. There may be another traceability thread in the forum (try a search for TRACEABILITY or 4.8). For molds, if you have multiple cavities they often are iddentified.

Give us some more specifics.

Mark,
With the skills that the tradesmen (Mold Makers-Tool Makers Etc.)have. My contention is that this suffices for not writing down and keeping inpection records. The molds are all identified with Job numbers and all components (Pins, Bushings and other small components follow the job indentified with the Job numbers, usually in plastic bins.)
are identified. We also use check sheets that follow the progress of the mold fromm start to finish. I want to reinforce the Management team that the Skill of the employees are accepted by you and all registars.
Thanks much & I really enjoy your site and talking to Howard ( Bill orignally from Blue Ash & Morrow , Oh

With the skills that the tradesmen (Mold Makers-Tool Makers Etc.)have. My contention is that this suffices for not writing down and keeping inpection records.

Click to expand...

I do not agree with your contention that inspection records not be written down - if we are really talking inspection records. What do you call inspections? I think we may have different definitions of just what an inspection is.

excellent point Marc...lots of confusion out there. Define it, THEN document it from there.....

Befinition of Inspection ! (Mold Making)
Steps:
1.) Customer sends data base which is programmed using Pro-E & CadCam.
2.) Data base is programmed and analyzed.
3.) This data is then sent to CNC machines which machine Carbon w/in +/-.0005. The Carbon is then used to burn out the mold (EDM).
4.)The S/U is then verifed to operational Instructions throughout entire process.
5.)There is grinding-milling-boring-drilling-lath mach-Polishing.
After completion of mold we sample the mold by Pre-Trial Runoff.
6.)In the 2 years I have been here the only suspect parts that were produced was caused by Customer error on the design of their Data base.
7.)We do a full PPAP at Level 3.
Again back to the orignal. If we had to track and record the 1000's (Or more) of Dimensions on each mold we would have to HIRE many Inspectors which would cause the Business to fail.
8. We have to be realistic! The knowledge and skills has to be considered. Read #6 again.
This is the USA so I can dis-agee with both of you. USA needs to hold on thier jobs - So some of the requirements that are written need to be re-visted by the writers. Visit the real world. W. Edwards Deming. (Out of the Crisis)d. "Quality to the Production Worker means that his/her performance satisfies him/her, provides to him/her pride of workmanship"
Bet I here from you'all again.
Have a good day.
Howard Read this.
Bill

You're right, you don't want to write down every measurement every time, but why would you measure some dimension every time if you are so good at meeting it? Why not sample molds for certain dimensions or at least rank them in terms of importance to the mold's functionality. You could record the important ones, if needed. Sounds to me, if your machine operators are measuring each mold for every dimension, they are wasting their time anyway (even if they don't write the measurements down)!

Bill,

In case you DO come back, I'm not sure why you're mad. All we're trying to do is figure out the specifics of what you are calling an 'inspection' so that we can give our opinions. I'm disappointed that you are so prissy - we're all just here to try to help. And I believe we all typically do a pretty good job.

But to answer you anyway....

There were really two questions - your first one was traceability: You identify the tool (mold) its self and typically exch cavity has an ID (typical customer requirement) - was that one answered or do you want to discuss that in more detail.

Then we switched to inspections.

As far as I know, the only dimensions you need to measure and record as an 'inspection' are those called out on the print - which will not be thousands of measuremnts. If you qualify the mold you make with parts produced, that is what you 'inspect' - per the print.

If you are speaking about the 'check sheets' in your original post, I would think they would be sufficient. But I wouldn't define those as inspections. How does your development process system work? Does a program plan specifically call out one or more actual inspections at different steps or milestone points (possible step 4)?

You gave the process steps as the definition of inspection. I see only step 4 and after step 5 where you: "... sample the mold by Pre-Trial Runoff" as 'inspection' points (read quality records).

Hey Guys and Girls,
Boy did I get you'all (Born in West by G__
Virginia) going. Studied Human Relations in Industry. "How to get people motivated."
Boy did you'all come on. HA HA!
I was not mad - really enjoy you forum.
I have more details that I will post and this will help those who are in Mold Making achieve T. & E. and QS. We shall over come.
Again Thaks for your reactions.
Signed
Prissy!!