The Elsmar Cove Wiki More Free Files The Elsmar Cove Forums Discussion Thread Index Post Attachments Listing Failure Modes Services and Solutions to Problems Elsmar cove Forums Main Page Elsmar Cove Home Page

Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 10019 - Consultants and Consulting
Forum Username


Elsmar Cove Forum Sidebar
Custom Search
Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Monitor New Forum Posts
Follow Marc & Elsmar
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed  Marc Smith's Google+ Page  Marc Smith's Linked In Page   Marc Smith's Elsmar Cove YouTube Page  Marc Smith's Facebook Page
Elsmar Cove Groups
Elsmar Cove Google+ Group  Elsmar Cove LinkedIn Group  Elsmar Cove Facebook Group
Sponsor Links







Donate and $ Contributor Forum Access
Sponsored Links
Courtesy Quick Links

Links that Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:


Howard's
International Quality Services

Atul's
Symphony Technologies

Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting

Bob Doering's
Correct SPC - Precision Machining


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest Portal

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology

ASQ - American Society for Quality

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  #1  
Old 1st May 2007, 06:19 AM
dmp06's Avatar
dmp06 dmp06 is offline
Involved in Discussions

 
Registration Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA, Michigan
 
Posts: 27
Thanks Given to Others: 6
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Karma Power: 33
dmp06 has disabled his/her Karma.
Please Help! Consultant's Dilemma - Implementation project is behind schedule

I am a quality and environmental management system consultant. Currently I am changing the structure of my company. I have a client, that I have had since July 2005. When I made the agreement to work as a contractor for this client, I did so through another company as their contractor.

Well needless to say this client, 21 months later, is a problem. I have had clients that are slow on implementation, but this client is worse than ever I have worked for or heard of. They have had turtle diagrams, pfc's, sop's, eop's, epg's and their manual to review and revise accordingly since January of this year. I email them continuously for feedback on these reviews so that final revisions can be made and implementation begin. It is futile. They have me contacting a Quality "clerk" who is nothing more than a document control person and she holds documents instead of distributing them for review. The Quality Manager blows my questions and inquiries off until I have hounded him relentlessly for the answer.

Long story short. This project is no where near complete and when I made the agreement to take this contract, I quoted it based on an 18 months to develop, implement and prepare for registration.

How do I get out of this nightmare? The company that hired me as a contractor did not put any language in the agreement on time limitations for this project.

The money for this project is about gone, due to length between reviews and ongoing revisions to revisions.

I want to move on with new projects, but this one is holding me back from making certain commitments.

Any suggestions?

  #2  
Old 1st May 2007, 06:28 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc Marc is online now
Your Elsmar Cove Host

 
Registration Date: Jan 1996
Location: West Chester - Southern Ohio - USA
Age: 62
 
Posts: 22,866
Thanks Given to Others: 7,541
Thanked 4,570 Times in 2,908 Posts
Blog Entries: 4
Karma Power: 400
Karma: 28965
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Marc is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: Consultant's Dilemma

How did (do) you track progress? How often did (do) you update upper management on progress? Did you identify road blocks as your project proceeded? How many times did you warn upper management of time frame problems?

Just a few thoughts...
__________________
A Search is a terrible thing to waste!
One Test is Worth 1000 Expert Opinions - The plural of anecdote is not data - Correlation does not imply Causation
We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. - Unknown
Thanks to Marc for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Sponsored Links

  #3  
Old 1st May 2007, 08:04 AM
dmp06's Avatar
dmp06 dmp06 is offline
Involved in Discussions

 
Registration Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA, Michigan
 
Posts: 27
Thanks Given to Others: 6
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Karma Power: 33
dmp06 has disabled his/her Karma.
Re: Consultant's Dilemma - Implementation project is behind schedule

I have kept an ongoing (continuously revised) QMS/EMS Plan, showing their responsibilities, timelines and status. I have documented all of my correspondence, which have been weekly, and saved all my emails and have gone on-site when possible to meet with management. They give lip service about commitment and that goes by the way-side as soon as I leave. My attempts to keep it "out front" for everyone don't seem to work. I also keep the company that contracted me abreast on every correspondence. Their answer is "Thanks for sticking with it". ???
  #4  
Old 1st May 2007, 08:29 AM
Randy's Avatar
Randy Randy is online now
Super Moderator

 
Registration Date: Jun 1999
Location: Greenwood (Ft Smith area), Arkansas, USA
Age: 61
 
Posts: 8,034
Thanks Given to Others: 48
Thanked 2,532 Times in 1,568 Posts
Karma Power: 897
Karma: 18988
Randy is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Randy is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Randy is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Randy is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Randy is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Randy is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Randy is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Randy is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Randy is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Randy is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Send a message via Skype™ to Randy
Re: Consultant's Dilemma - Implementation project is behind schedule

If it's taken this amount of time they're probably too dumb to ever do it. This isn't rocket science, I know because I helped some rocket scientists in California get their management systems up and running and it only took 6 months with a company of about 1,400 PhD's.

Identify where they have met whatever, show them and congradulate them for their hard work. Tell them to let things run 6 months without your help before they go for registration (if that's their goal) and let them stand on their own feet. Let the lack of success be theirs, not yours.

Wash your hands, declare victory, stand up, hook up and shuffle to the door, jump right out and count to four. And don't look back.
__________________
We who have seen war, will never stop seeing it. In the silence of the night, we will always hear the screams. Joe Galloway
  #5  
Old 1st May 2007, 09:04 AM
dmp06's Avatar
dmp06 dmp06 is offline
Involved in Discussions

 
Registration Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA, Michigan
 
Posts: 27
Thanks Given to Others: 6
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Karma Power: 33
dmp06 has disabled his/her Karma.
Re: Consultant's Dilemma - Implementation project is behind schedule

They aren't too dumb. They just aren't interested. I have to get them to a point that they have agreed (approved) all of their documents I have developed and then I can set them free to implement. My problem is getting them to review with accuracy the documents I have developed for them based on their operations. Once I get that portion done, it is up to them to implement and run their six months to see if the system is effective.

They aren't committed. I am tired of patting them on the back, playing politics and getting the shuffle.

In my past 25 years of experience, I have never had it take this long to get a program developed, implemented and registered.

I just don't want to be looking at a lawsuit up the road, but definitely want to drop this project.

Thanks for you input Randy.
  #6  
Old 1st May 2007, 10:04 AM
BradM's Avatar
BradM BradM is offline
Forum Administrator

 
Registration Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arlington,Texas
 
Posts: 5,367
Thanks Given to Others: 1,312
Thanked 1,835 Times in 1,238 Posts
Karma Power: 400
Karma: 16759
BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.BradM is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: Consultant's Dilemma - Implementation project is behind schedule

BTW: You do a good job of putting details in your posts. Nice writing!

IMO, this boils down to a contract law. A legal contract has an exchange between the buyer and the seller, and a timeframe for it to occur. If it does not have that, it's not a legal contract. Even marriage agreements have expiration dates (death).

Did you have an agreement with the organization you were contracting through? Anything on the purchase order?

IMO, this has to stop; it will drive you crazy. I would sit down with the client and contracting company and develop a drop-dead time frame.

The only caveat I would submit is to be careful how handling this situation would handle your future business. I'm not sure about your specific scenario, and don't know if 'dumping' this would cause you more heartache than you anticipated.
__________________
Now, 75 years later in an abundant society where people have laptops, cell phones, iPods and minds like empty rooms, I still plod along with books. ”
—Harper Lee
Thanks to BradM for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #7  
Old 1st May 2007, 10:47 AM
SteelMaiden's Avatar
SteelMaiden SteelMaiden is offline
Super Moderator

 
Registration Date: Jan 2001
Location: NC, USA
 
Posts: 4,192
Thanks Given to Others: 574
Thanked 1,371 Times in 845 Posts
Karma Power: 492
Karma: 11374
SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.SteelMaiden is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: Consultant's Dilemma - Implementation project is behind schedule

Number one as I see it is once the consultant "develops the documentation" you have set the company up for learned helplessness. I know that there are many consultants out there that hand over a complete and documented QMS and then the customer follows it. It is obvious that this company is not capable of the implementation of said documentation. You either need to tell them that you have fulfilled your end of the bargain and the contract is up, or you need to renegotiate exactly what is expected by them and by you. If you truly feel that they are capable of implementing and maintaining the system, you need to make sure that the management supplies the resources. Otherwise, I'd vote for cut and run.
__________________
"It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how", Dr. Seuss
Man may have invented fire, it took a woman to learn how to play with it.
Thank You to SteelMaiden for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  #8  
Old 1st May 2007, 10:51 AM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne Jim Wynne is online now
Cross Forum Moderator

 
Registration Date: Jan 2005
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
 
Posts: 13,389
Thanks Given to Others: 1,805
Thanked 5,401 Times in 3,458 Posts
Blog Entries: 2
Karma Power: 1451
Karma: 39449
Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.Jim Wynne is appreciated, and has over 1700 Karma points.
Re: Consultant's Dilemma - Implementation project is behind schedule

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by SteelMaiden View Post

Number one as I see it is once the consultant "develops the documentation" you have set the company up for learned helplessness.
Very well put. If I ever have my own consulting company, I'm going to call it LH Associates, but I'll never tell customers what the "LH" stands for.
__________________
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face (Mike Tyson)
Thanks to Jim Wynne for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Forum > ISO (International Organization for Standardization) Standards > ISO 10019 - Consultants and Consulting

Do you find this discussion thread helpful and informational?


Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Seeking help in making a decision - Project behind schedule Ka Pilo Quality Management Related Issues 11 15th June 2011 05:20 PM
ISO 9001 Certification Implementation Project Consultant Expectations D.Salman ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions 3 31st August 2010 10:09 AM
ISO 9001:2000 Implementation Project Plan - Seeking MS Project Template MarkJoel ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 - Questions and Discussions 23 3rd March 2010 03:04 PM
Looking for an Implementation Consultant... Is a consultant firm a good idea? jguns ISO 10019 - Consultants and Consulting 27 27th July 2009 08:13 PM
ISO 14001 Implementation Schedule - I need help and example schedule Omarpm ISO 14001 and Environmental Related Standards 2 15th August 2005 05:52 PM



The time now is 03:36 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


   


Marc Timothy Smith - Elsmar.com
8466 LeSourdsville-West Chester Road, Olde West Chester, Ohio 45069-1929
513 341-6272