How you can evaluate ISO 9001 Certification Body (CB) Auditors during their visits?

[John Broomfield]

In Reply to Parent Post by wessamsheta2000

Hi all,
sorry if this subject is repeated, but I try hard to search about similar subject here and in the internet but unfortunately I failed.

Any way, what I want to speak about it today is "HOW you can evaluate your CB during their visits"

And what I am exactly want to evaluate not the auditors knowledge or experience or the criteria of findings issuance because this is not my problem.

1- My 1st problem is that I had (not have, because we just changed him lately) CB all what he cared about is the money !!!!!! and he can see majors infront of him and forget about it because he think that if he raised majors, he will lose us as a customer which ofcourse not our policy as respectable company and not accepted.

2- 2nd problem, During about 6 years of repeated visits, that CB not even once put some departments in his scheduele at all !!!!!!!!!, and believe me that dept.'s affect the product quality (design dept's !!!!!!!!!), is that Acceptable.
and also all his visits (suvelliance audits) is very short about a day maximum on company having 4 sites and about 1200 employees.

so how can I evaluate any CB and if there are common rules between me and him like "what is his real actions before and during registration visit and survillance visits" so I can evaluate the new CB coming to me.

Thanks.

wessam,

Two metrics:

1. By the value of the nonconformity statements they issue (using the PONC formula).
2. Ongoing respect that your new customers have for your registrar's rigor and the independence of their certificate.

Of course, the certificates of conformity should only be issued for management systems that do not depend in any way on the issuer for their conformity. That is by registrars who provide no training or consulting to their certification clientele.

BTW, why wait for your CB to issue the major nonconformity reports? To me that seems to be the system weakness to be addressed by your value-adding corrective action.

John

[Elavarasan.m]

WESSAM,
OHSAS 18001 Auditor days are determined based on risk category, much similar to EMS as given in IAF: MD5. when QEO is audited together by same team (combined audit) or by different team at the same time (joint audit), duration could be decided based on "EA Guidance on the Application of ISO/IEC 17021:2006 for Combined Audits (EA-7/05)" just google for it you'll find..Please note this document is only generic. Different accreditation boards will dictate their specific terms to certification bodies / registrars.
Elavarasan M

[Sidney Vianna]

In Reply to Parent Post by Elavarasan.m

when QEO is audited together by same team (combined audit) or by different team at the same time (joint audit), duration could be decided based on "EA Guidance on the Application of ISO/IEC 17021:2006 for Combined Audits (EA-7/05)" just google for it you'll find.

Thanks for the suggestion. The referenced document can be downloaded from this link.

[sridharafep]

I feel

very weak Internal audit system could lead to this situation.

As pointed why to wait for an external auditors to come and point the problem.

If your system is matured and the organization complex is less then one day surveillance audit could be sufficient!

Audit duration is not only number of employees.......

I too agree that many of the CB is just commercial now a days. (freelancer or consultant working part-time / training the same org to be certified ...)