Why a janitor ends up with a higher tax rate than a millionaire

[Bill Pflanz]

So what you are saying TruePosition is that it doesn't make any difference how a journalist shows the data as long as the answer comes out that the wealthy should pay more.

Bill Pflanz

[True Position]

In Reply to Parent Post by Bill Pflanz

So what you are saying TruePosition is that it doesn't make any difference how a journalist shows the data as long as the answer comes out that the wealthy should pay more.

Bill Pflanz

Can't respond to the truth so you attack me? That the payroll taxes are regressive and due to the investment rates some very wealthy have lower effective rates then janitors are facts.

I'm sorry facts hurt your politics.

[Marc]

In Reply to Parent Post by True Position

Can't respond to the truth so you attack me? <snip>

It's not really an "attack". It's a "request for a clarification".

As is evident, I started this thread without any comment. The link is to some graphs that I felt some people may want to look at, and if they like to discuss here.

Expectation of disagreements, often between specific individuals, are expected in this forum. Name calling and such is obviously prohibited, but some antagonistic inter-personal posts are to be expected.

Everyone should remember - There is the aspect of saying "we agree to disagree"... from time to time.

[True Position]

In Reply to Parent Post by Marc

It's not really an "attack". It's a "request for a clarification".

As is evident, I started this thread without any comment. The link is to some graphs that I felt some people may want to look at, and if they like to discuss here.

Expectation of disagreements, often between specific individuals, are expected in this forum. Name calling and such is obviously prohibited, but some antagonistic inter-personal posts are to be expected.

Everyone should remember - There is the aspect of saying "we agree to disagree"... from time to time.

There's plenty of ways to request clarification without trying to assign motives to someone else.

[Hershal]

Interesting.

The article does not describe the sources of income, as that drives the tax rates. Buffet is a prime example, as his salary is comparable to his secretary, but his investment income - with a different tax rate - is many times her $100K+ salary.

Information that would be useful in judging whether things are actually unequal or some journalist just is stirring the pot without a **** for fact.

[Marc]

Yeah - As we all know, these things get really weird in the sense that you really have to dive into the details and determine how they came up with the numbers they use to make graphs like these. That is typically the contention arguments to what what graphs like the "really" mean.

Like I said - I posted some "food for thought". The link is to a Mother Jones article, so you know right there part of what the slant will be the same as watching Fox News. As always, each personal perceptions and interpretations come into play.

This is one of the great things about the internet. For example, I have a "bathroom book" which has various NY Times front pages. Reading though the articles, and not *just* the headlines, is always a thought provoker. In some ways things haven't changed much, from the headline topics to the "daily" NYC "events". Murders and the whole bit. Local (and other) corruption articles.

You used to get "second hand" information. I think a lot of it was more (to a large degree) *reporting* as opposed to today's entertainment/"news" crud. These days one can go to a lot of internet sites for info from both (all) sides and make decisions. These days it's hard to imagine getting "news" of events via stage coach drivers and such.

[Bill Pflanz]

I have noticed the same things that you described Marc. Besides reading the original Mother Jones story I also dug a little deeper to look at the source material. Being retired with more time makes it possible to look at facts and data that are not usually in the mainstream media (Fox included). Newspapers actually do a better job than tv about providing more facts and less headlines. I have found that tracking down information to original sources to be interesting because what gets passed from source to source gets lost just like in the game of passing the message on to the next person.

The other thing that bothers me is the use of graphs and tables that provide data in a misleading way. The most grievious offenses are picking time frames in a trend line that match an argument and misinterpreting normal variation as significant.

Bill Pflanz

[True Position]

Did your further research confirm or deny that it's very possible for a janitor to have a higher effective tax rate than a person earning millions from investments?