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VDA 6.3 Audit Assistance Request

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audits and auditing, vda 6.3 - process audit, vda standards
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  Post Number #1  
Old 6th April 2012, 09:59 AM
Icy Mountain's Avatar
Icy Mountain

 
 
Total Posts: 885
Please Help! VDA 6.3 Audit Assistance Request

I have recently been the victim of a VDA 6.3 process audit done by question checklist. I need to go to school on the VDA standards to satisfy this customer. I believe that I need to acquire the VDA 6.3 standard to understand the process that was followed. Can someone tell me what is the functional equivalent VDA standard to ISO/TS 16949 so I can acquire that also? I need to understand against what requirements I was audited.

In the meantime, can someone excerpt the following sections of the appropriate VDA standard that are equivalent to these VDA 6.3 sections?
P3 Planning Product and Process, 3.5
P5 Supplier Management, 5.5
P5 Supplier Management, 5.6
B Mass Production 1. Process Step -PS1, 6.2.4

I am having a difficult time answering findings in these sections because I have been supplied only a narrative answer to a yes/no audit question with no requirement stated.

-Icy

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  Post Number #2  
Old 6th April 2012, 11:26 AM
Icy Mountain's Avatar
Icy Mountain

 
 
Total Posts: 885
Re: VDA 6.3 Audit Assistance Request

I think I have this right:
VDA 6.1 is the functional equivalent of ISO/TS16949, i.e., the actual QMS requirements.

Could someone please confirm? The global.ihs.com site lists 6.1 as Quality System Audit. I'm just trying to figure out what I need before I buy. And I thought AIAG was confusing. Try it in German.
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  Post Number #3  
Old 6th April 2012, 02:34 PM
Howard Atkins's Avatar
Howard Atkins

 
 
Total Posts: 2,921
Re: VDA 6.3 Audit Assistance Request

Icy,

VDA 6.1 is the equivalent of QS and most German companies accept TS
VDA 6.3 is the process audit.
The standard is a series of questions.

There are a number of files here
Search attachments

Here is the VDA book store in English

Hope this helps

In fact in my mind the VDA 6.3 is a useful audit and was around well before the process audit was introduced into TS
Thanks to Howard Atkins for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #4  
Old 7th April 2012, 10:40 AM
Icy Mountain's Avatar
Icy Mountain

 
 
Total Posts: 885
Re: VDA 6.3 Audit Assistance Request

I have no doubt that this could be a useful tool. However, I was hit with a "checklist" audit, not a true process audit, for the first time in ten years. Some of the "findings" were extremely subjective and thus resulted in nonconformances that will be difficult to correct because I cannot determine why my system is not conforming.

For example, we have ERP software. All parts are assigned a number in this software. All parts have a physical location that is recorded in this software. All parts on the production floor are physically marked with their number. Therefore, you can find any part in our facility by looking up the location, going there and finding the labeled part.

Our production teams generated a continual improvement years ago to apply part number and description stickers to magnetic tape and put these labels on the metal racks to provide a quick find system. This saves time because if they decide to relocate a part, they don't have to scrape labels, print new labels, etc. They just change the location in the system, move the part, move the label, done.

I cannot determine why the use of these mag-tags is a non-conformance. Because they are easy to move? We have thousands of bins that are labeled with stickers: they can be peeled off and replaced. We have racks labeled with Sharpie marker: it can be wiped off with alcohol and rewritten. The point being that you can still go to the system, look up the part and find the location.

Can someone explain why these magnetic part number labels would require corrective action to VDA 6.3 Section 5.6?
  Post Number #5  
Old 7th April 2012, 10:41 PM
Howard Atkins's Avatar
Howard Atkins

 
 
Total Posts: 2,921
Re: VDA 6.3 Audit Assistance Request

The standard has been updated and I am not up to date with the changes.
I assume that this was a 2nd party audit and in a lot of these cases the reasons are clouded in the requirements or misunderstandings of the customers.


The reigning philosophy in many cases is unfortunately is "I said do it and so you shall"

Was the auditor able to explain?

What is the question at 5.6 in the new edition?
  Post Number #6  
Old 12th April 2012, 05:21 PM
Icy Mountain's Avatar
Icy Mountain

 
 
Total Posts: 885
Re: VDA 6.3 Audit Assistance Request

VDA 6.3 P5.6: Are incoming goods stored appropriately?
These are the related items in columns under P5.6:
Column 1,
Incoming materials and goods containers must be place in stores in accordance with their release status so that they cannot be damaged or mixed up.
Column 2,
Identification (traceability, inspection status, work sequence, usage status).
Mixing/false identification are prevented.

Auditors write up:
While Icy's Company believes in the work cell approach to production, it is still important to specifically and adequately mark racks on the floor with a tight window approach. Avoid generalities. It appears that some rack locations are not marked from the outside aisle view but are marked from the inside aisle view. The labels on the racks are magnetic and removable. Therefore, any label can be removed and taken anywhere in the facility. This would not be a good trade off for all the other work done in the cell. This needs to be corrected as soon as possible

We demonstrated that we have a Part Number (ABC).
The Part Number can be looked up in The System and The Location determined (e.g. KJ2, Kanban, Line J, Rack 2).
The Part exists at the location and is either individually marked with The Part Number or The Container is marked with The Part Number.

The the rack on line J is marked KJ2, permanently. There is a magnetic label with ABC on the second shelf of rack KJ2. The parts are in a bin marked ABC. The parts are indeed ABC.

In order to remain flexible, we don't permanently mark locations with part numbers because we move them all the time depending on what assemblies are phasing out and what assemblies are phasing in. None of our production associates had any difficulty finding components.

Cutting through the confusion, this all traces back to ISO 7.5.3 Identification and Traceability and 7.5.5. Preservation of product. I simply cannot figure out what I am non-conforming to and/or why?
  Post Number #7  
Old 24th April 2012, 11:31 AM
Hectorhe

 
 
Total Posts: 18
Re: VDA 6.3 Audit Assistance Request

Thanks for your insights, i am also looking for the material, thanks.
  Post Number #8  
Old 24th April 2012, 11:44 AM
AndyN's Avatar
AndyN

 
 
Total Posts: 7,962
Let Me Help You Re: VDA 6.3 Audit Assistance Request

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Icy Mountain View Post

I think I have this right:
VDA 6.1 is the functional equivalent of ISO/TS16949, i.e., the actual QMS requirements.

Could someone please confirm? The global.ihs.com site lists 6.1 as Quality System Audit. I'm just trying to figure out what I need before I buy. And I thought AIAG was confusing. Try it in German.
Part of the frustration lays in the fact that VDA used ISO 9004 (the guidance) as the basis for auditing (which as you know is what the book is about)! So, it was based on a lot of 'nice to do' stuff, not hard, core requirements. As a result, you are always going to have to deal with findings which sound like opinions, not hard requirements. Sorry to say it's a case of adapt or tell this customer to take a hike!
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