How to apply Clause 8.2.4 from BS En 9100 & ISO9001

[BazzJW]

My company is a sales organisation that sells engineering products on to its customer but does not see the goods. The products are shipped directly from the suppliers to our customers. We are being asked to approve every line before shipment by a certification body, which we see as adding a lot of work onto our resources. We don`t have any release documents coming to us directly but we can access them whenever we wish. Because we only raise the purchase order we find 8.2.4 very difficult to comply

Has anyone come across this situation before or can offer any advice, as we need clear it to achieve our cert. Thanks

[Coury Ferguson]

In Reply to Parent Post by BazzJW

My company is a sales organisation that sells engineering products on to its customer but does not see the goods. The products are shipped directly from the suppliers to our customers. We are being asked to approve every line before shipment by a certification body, which we see as adding a lot of work onto our resources. We don`t have any release documents coming to us directly but we can access them whenever we wish. Because we only raise the purchase order we find 8.2.4 very difficult to comply

Has anyone come across this situation before or can offer any advice, as we need clear it to achieve our cert. Thanks

Since this is a direct shipment, how do you monitor your suppliers? Do you do any inspections at the Suppliers prior to shipment?

You can't exclude because it is under Section 8.

[BazzJW]

Hi Coury. The problem arose when sale part of the business split from the manufacturing part. So our major supplier used to be ourselves, other manufacturing units within the group will be doing the same thing i.e shipping direct to our customers. Our suppliers will be audited (all part of the same group), delivery performance monitored and scored. We do not do any inspection at the suppliers. it was thought about but because how the business is being setup, we will have to find some 7 or more inspectors laocated at different manufacturing sites, working on our behalf. That is big problem we cannot exclude the clause. Our major supplier is certified to AS 9100, so there is a high level control.

Thanks Coury.

[Mikishots]

In Reply to Parent Post by BazzJW

My company is a sales organisation that sells engineering products on to its customer but does not see the goods. The products are shipped directly from the suppliers to our customers. We are being asked to approve every line before shipment by a certification body, which we see as adding a lot of work onto our resources. We don`t have any release documents coming to us directly but we can access them whenever we wish. Because we only raise the purchase order we find 8.2.4 very difficult to comply

Has anyone come across this situation before or can offer any advice, as we need clear it to achieve our cert. Thanks

This clause is where you make sure that what you're supplying to the customer is exactly what they ordered. Remember that "product" also means "service".

The underlying message here is that by measuring the output from your processes you have a chance to reduce variation and improve consistency in what you're delivering to your customer.

The inspections and tests of your products and services are done at the various steps along your process (as you've hopefully defined through 7.1). You have to keep records, including who authorized the release of the product/service. This may sound like Clause 7.5.1 all over again, but there's a big difference: 7.5.1 only asks that you implement monitoring and measurement as a method or type of control over your processes, where 8.2.4 is asking you to look at the data you collect as part of your monitoring and measuring activities; you must be checking to see if your customer (and other) requirements are being met.

You need to develop close ties with your suppliers. This will allow them to improve the quality and consistency of what is being shipped, as well as reducing the amount of discrepancies landing on the customer's doorstep.

BTW, just because your major supplier's QMS is certified to AS9100, it doesn't mean their system is effective - I can name more than one company that has been certified for years but isn't fit to sweep my driveway without screwing up. The responsibility for what the customer receives is YOURS.

[BazzJW]

Hi Mikishots, our main supplier and ourselves were once a single company until recently, so I have a fair idea about there quality systems, I am not saying they are the best but there is a decent level of control and the relation with our main couldn`t be closer. The main problem is how do we implement clause 8.2.4, interms of approval of order for shipping without a great impact on our resource. Bearing in mind that some Circa 300 order lines will require approval on a daily basis.

[Mikishots]

In Reply to Parent Post by BazzJW

Hi Mikishots, our main supplier and ourselves were once a single company until recently, so I have a fair idea about there quality systems, I am not saying they are the best but there is a decent level of control and the relation with our main couldn`t be closer. The main problem is how do we implement clause 8.2.4, interms of approval of order for shipping without a great impact on our resource. Bearing in mind that some Circa 300 order lines will require approval on a daily basis.

OK then, let's try this; what information have you requested that your suppliers forward to you (or otherwise make readily available to you) so you are able to carry out your monitoring and measurment requirements?

[BazzJW]

We have asked that shipping notes be sent to us; and any other release documents,e.g FAIRs, CofC, inspection reports be made available if they were a part of the order.