AS9100B vs AS9100C - Clause 4.2.2 - Relationships between requirements

J

Jarawho

I am currently upgrading our ISO 9000:2008 QMS to AS9100 Rev. B and was wondering if somebody could explain the following requirement from 4.2.2

"When referencing the documented procedures, the relationship between the requirements of this international standard and the documented procedures shall be clearly shown"

I realize this has been removed in the Rev.C document, but I am being pushed to get registered to AS9100 before the new revision of AS9101 is released. Any guidance would be appreciated.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Trusted Information Resource
Re: Clause 4.2.2 - Relationships between requirements

I am currently upgrading our ISO 9000:2008 QMS to AS9100 Rev. B and was wondering if somebody could explain the following requirement from 4.2.2

"When referencing the documented procedures, the relationship between the requirements of this international standard and the documented procedures shall be clearly shown"

I realize this has been removed in the Rev.C document, but I am being pushed to get registered to AS9100 before the new revision of AS9101 is released. Any guidance would be appreciated.

First, you may want to upgrade your System to AS9100 Rev C. AS9101 Rev C has already been released. We just had our surveillance audit and the CB Auditor use the Rev C checklist.

Check the IAQG website: Here
 
J

Jeff Frost

Re: Clause 4.2.2 - Relationships between requirements

I am currently upgrading our ISO 9000:2008 QMS to AS9100 Rev. B and was wondering if somebody could explain the following requirement from 4.2.2

"When referencing the documented procedures, the relationship between the requirements of this international standard and the documented procedures shall be clearly shown"

I realize this has been removed in the Rev.C document, but I am being pushed to get registered to AS9100 before the new revision of AS9101 is released. Any guidance would be appreciated.

As you have noted ISO 9001:2008 and AS9100C does not require a direct linage or reference in the organizations procedure to the clause of the standard. However, AS9100B makes it a requirement and is limited to those procedures that are required by the standard as well as those that the organization determines to be necessary. Some organizations have met this requirement by:

- Inclusion of the ISO 9001/AS9100 clause reference in each procedure
- Creation of a matrix listing each procedure and corresponding clause of the standard
- Referencing the procedures within the applicable clause in the quality manual, or
- Placing a matrix listing as an appendix to the quality manual

The method I have used for years is to write the quality manual for the business model of the company without formatting it like the standard and then placing a matrix list as an appendix to the quality manual.

I have found over the years that 2nd and 3rd party auditors like to be spoon feed when it comes to how your system matches the standard.
 
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J

Jeff Frost

Re: Clause 4.2.2 - Relationships between requirements

First, you may want to upgrade your System to AS9100 Rev C. AS9101 Rev C has already been released. We just had our surveillance audit and the CB Auditor use the Rev C checklist.

Check the IAQG website: Here

I think he meant to say AS9101 Revision D, which has not been released because IAQG is working on the interruptions of some of the new requirements added or revised in AS9100C.
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Trusted Information Resource
Re: Clause 4.2.2 - Relationships between requirements

I am currently upgrading our ISO 9000:2008 QMS to AS9100 Rev. B and was wondering if somebody could explain the following requirement from 4.2.2

"When referencing the documented procedures, the relationship between the requirements of this international standard and the documented procedures shall be clearly shown"
When you reference procedures in your quality manual, you need it to be clear what AS9100 clause each procedure is related to. In manuals that use the AS9100 numbering scheme, it's already obvious. In other manuals, I typically see it done in a matrix or with an AS9100 clause number in parenthesis after the reference.

I personally never saw the value of the requirement. Clearly the IAQG agrees, so it was removed in Rev. C.

I realize this has been removed in the Rev.C document, but I am being pushed to get registered to AS9100 before the new revision of AS9101 is released. Any guidance would be appreciated.
It seems that certification to AS9100 Rev. C won't be available until early 2010. :rolleyes: If AS9100 is the direction your company needs to go, it's probably not a good idea to wait.
 

Big Jim

Admin
Re: Clause 4.2.2 - Relationships between requirements

First, you may want to upgrade your System to AS9100 Rev C. AS9101 Rev C has already been released. We just had our surveillance audit and the CB Auditor use the Rev C checklist.

Check the IAQG website: Here

AS9101C is the document that guides internal audits for AS9100B. AS9101C includes a checklist. It will be replaced with AS9101D for use with AS9100C. The draft for AS9101D does not include a checklist (its about time ).

The checklist you saw him use was undoubtedly AS9101C, and meant for the old AS9100B.

You need to be conforming to the standard you intend to become registered to. You will have nonconformances for things in AS9100B if you have your system set up for AS9100C, as a few things will be removed.
 
J

Jarawho

Thanks for the input everybody! Originally we were going to go for AS9100 Rev.C but our timeline doesn't allow for us to wait for the release of AS9101 Rev.D. Personally I would prefer to wait and implement Rev.C since we are already registered to the 2008 version of ISO 9001 which AS9100 Rev.C is based on.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
Re: Clause 4.2.2 - Relationships between requirements

AS9101C is the document that guides internal audits for AS9100B.
When the original 9101 document was developed, it was intended as a mandatory format for external audits (conducted under the ICOP Scheme) reporting.

The declared purpose of 9101 C states:

The purpose of this document is to define the content and the presentation of the Assessment Report for the 9100 standard.​
While many organizations use 9101 for internal audit purposes, it is a well know fact that 9101 C hinders auditing using a process approach. Something that is (supposedly) being corrected with the forthcoming 9101 Rev. D.

As most things in life, using the 9101 document for internal audit purposes will bring pros and cons. One of the cons being the promotion of a checklist mind set towards audits.
 

Big Jim

Admin
Re: Clause 4.2.2 - Relationships between requirements

When the original 9101 document was developed, it was intended as a mandatory format for external audits (conducted under the ICOP Scheme) reporting.

The declared purpose of 9101 C states: While many organizations use 9101 for internal audit purposes, it is a well know fact that 9101 C hinders auditing using a process approach. Something that is (supposedly) being corrected with the forthcoming 9101 Rev. D.

As most things in life, using the 9101 document for internal audit purposes will bring pros and cons. One of the cons being the promotion of a checklist mind set towards audits.

Good catch Sidney. I did mean CB audits, not internal audits (as I wrote).
 
J

JIm_at_HMW

Not to go off subject, but is there a Cross Ref Table between B & C that anyone knows about. I have made mine own up in the past but just thought I would ask. :topic:
 
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